Engagement Session to share. at DVinfo.net

Denny Kyser · March 4th, 2008, 04:02 AM

I am still very new to this, and still trying to learn some moving camera and be more creative but here is an engagement from this past Sunday.

Was cold, and lots of snow but we still had fun.

www.kyserphoto.com/Wilcox.mov

Mark Ganglfinger · March 4th, 2008, 07:04 AM

Nice effort. I have never done an engagement video with any of my wedding videos, but if I do, I would like to "borrow" some of your ideas.

On a technical note I thought the audio on the interviews was a little distant (it was the on camera mic i'm guessing). It was clear enough to hear though.

Second, I'm not sure about your framing during the interviews. You have the subject on left of the screen looking to the left, while there is quite a bit of blank space on the right. Normally you would have the subject facing the open space. If this is an intentional "new" style of shooting I apologize, I just can't bring myself to break this rule.

I don't mean to be picky, there is some good stuff in your video, keep it up.

Mark G

Art Varga · March 4th, 2008, 08:25 AM

Denny - check your spelling on "Congratulations" . I'd try to get your subjects more animated. I didn't see much contrast between the video and the stills. I also echo Mark's comments on the framing and audio. Nice effort though and quick turnaround ( Sunday?)

Denny Kyser · March 4th, 2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Ganglfinger

Nice effort. I have never done an engagement video with any of my wedding videos, but if I do, I would like to "borrow" some of your ideas.

On a technical note I thought the audio on the interviews was a little distant (it was the on camera mic i'm guessing). It was clear enough to hear though.

Second, I'm not sure about your framing during the interviews. You have the subject on left of the screen looking to the left, while there is quite a bit of blank space on the right. Normally you would have the subject facing the open space. If this is an intentional "new" style of shooting I apologize, I just can't bring myself to break this rule.

I don't mean to be picky, there is some good stuff in your video, keep it up.

Mark G

I did use a shotgun mic for the audio but trying to save size, changed the freq, and changed to mono this may be why it doesnt sound very good.I like to use negative space, but you are exactly right, its is the wrong way, just poor thinking on my part.

I did forget to run spell check on my horrible spelling, I will fix that now. :)

As always thanks for the Critiques and suggestions I do try and learn from them.

Tom McDougal · March 4th, 2008, 09:32 AM

On the interviews...its all about the rule of thirds..put your subject (bride/groom) the first or last third of the screen. With them in the middle looking over the the far left side...it doesn't seem like we are involved in the conversation... When they are tell you their story, be closer to the camera and it will appear that they are talking to the camera to tell there story.
Also, dress up your interview area..doesn't seem like anyything is in the background if it was a plain wall, on you wide shots, you could of made some "frame" to rotate some of there egagement pictures around..

Did you use after effects/motion progrom or your NLE?

Jason Bowers · March 4th, 2008, 09:35 AM

hi Denny,
This was good for your first attempt. Like anything we try we only get better with more practice. For future attempts though I would try to get a lav mic as the audio sounded to echoish for my liking. I would also try to get a backdrop rather than the kitchen, even a black sheet would really make the couple pop out. Also slow the pace of the pictures to give it a better flow with the music and really draw in the viewer. I think you are really on the right track and the couple will definitely love it. One last thing which is a pet peeve of mine is the "good luck" at the end, it always sounds like we don't really believe that they'll make it. Just my opinion though.

Jason

Denny Kyser · March 4th, 2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom McDougal

Did you use after effects/motion progrom or your NLE?

I used After Effects for the beginning animation, then Premeir Pro for the rest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Bowers

hi Denny,
This was good for your first attempt. Like anything we try we only get better with more practice. For future attempts though I would try to get a lav mic as the audio sounded to echoish for my liking. I would also try to get a backdrop rather than the kitchen, even a black sheet would really make the couple pop out. Also slow the pace of the pictures to give it a better flow with the music and really draw in the viewer. I think you are really on the right track and the couple will definitely love it. One last thing which is a pet peeve of mine is the "good luck" at the end, it always sounds like we don't really believe that they'll make it. Just my opinion though.

Jason

I hate to admit this but I had my Sony PCM-D50 set up, and never pressed the pause again to start recording, I got my levels and thought it was recording. This is better than even my lav mics, when I remember to make it record. I just got this a week ago but it is amazing when used with a good mic.

We shot the interviews in our presentation room, near the fireplace, but we were zoomed in so much that doesnt show much of the rooms decor. I could have shot them in the studio but was wanting a more home look, may try the studio next time.

Mark Ganglfinger · March 4th, 2008, 11:56 AM

I got to thinkin after I left my post about the sound problem, and I wonder if part of the problem too was the fact that your subjects were right up against a wall which could give you a nasty little reflection. I know the "big boys" (one of which I am not!) would move the furniture all around and away from walls to get the best picture and audio possible.

Mark G

Bill Grant · March 4th, 2008, 12:32 PM

Hey Denny,
This looks good for a first try. I hate doing these things because of all of the elements that are at work here. I still have them on my price sheet, but I don't sell them much at all. And let me say that it helps everyone when you post clips.
This is where you start to really learn the differences between photography & video. I remember when I was right there. I wasn't working with near the level of camera that you are but I digress. Several things that stood out to me.
#1 Video is about motion, so in my opinion the moving shots are very important. Contrasting those moving shots with some still detail shots is important too. Camera handling can help you with either of these things. I have found the VonLanken techniques for camera movement to be the trick, but also there has to be a good bit of practice to get it right. Concentrate, and slow down. These are the things that really helped me move farther forward.
#2 Audio is more than half the battle, and very new to photographers. I would suggest to find a good audio workflow, whether it is external recorder, wired lapel, or wireless, and record interviews the same way every time.
#3 Story and continuity is so important with video. If a love story like this isn't going to "re-enact" the story their telling (which let's face it, very rarely works) then you need to have one wow shot after another. This is where the photography part comes in. You know how to to do those mind blowing shots with photography, now apply that to the love story, and there's your b-roll.

I echo the other things that have been said here, but also to say that learning how to punch up your colors would be helpful, the interviews lack saturation.
The thing is, this is the beginning of your trip into video storytelling and it is very exciting. Once you have these tools (camera handling, audio, storytelling, etc.) you can do ANYTHING in video. Good luck, and thanks for posting, it is very hard to do that, I know.
Bill

Rich Woodrick · March 4th, 2008, 10:46 PM

Denny nice job for starters, I plan on doing this type of interview soon. I like the mixed in shaky hand held shoots with the steady shots. I think your titles were quite cheesy though. I'm sure you'll do much better on your next one. Your getting some great advice from this forum.
Rich

Frank Simpson · March 4th, 2008, 11:34 PM

I tend to agree with Rich. Brush Script is one of the most over-used typefaces of all time. And when using a script face you should never loosen up the tracking to leave space between characters. The whole idea of a script is that is forms a continuous shape.

Almost all of the video seems to have a color cast which makes me think that no white balancing was done. The stills, by contrast, look great. Unfortunately this points up the shortcomings of the video.

The framing of the interviews has already been addressed, but I wonder if it would have cut better with her facing camera Left, and him facing camera right? By using a quick dissolve the eye would be led from one side of the screen to the other. As it is the jump cut when they're discussing the proposal makes it look like she suddenly turns into him. Especially since they were both shot in the same place. Perhaps not the most elegant way to change.

Also, I personally have a problem with logos that do tricks like exploding for no apparent reason. When I think "photographer" I don't think "explosion". As in all things, just because you can use an effect does not necessarily mean you should. "Because it's cool" is never justification for an effect.

Keep at it! We all get better with each successive project!

Denny Kyser · March 5th, 2008, 07:57 AM

Thanks everyone and great advice, and as always very good and will put it to use.

I have to admit that logo was just something cool, and of coarse I had to use it.
I really enjoy learning video, is also making my photography better.

I actually did white balance the video cameras, at the place where they were walking down the road. Maybe I should have white balanced again when we moved but I felt it was in the same type lighting. I have learned to fine tune and process the stills to get such a rich saturated look hard to get the video to that level. Guess its because I have been doing 200-250 session a year have to get good at that.

I really need to get to some video workshops, till then will keep relying on you guys,
Thanks again and will take your advice.

Bill Grant · March 5th, 2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Kyser

I really need to get to some video workshops, till then will keep relying on you guys,
Thanks again and will take your advice.

Denny,
I can't recomment the VonLankens workshops enough. It will change everything for you. I am over 18 months out of mine, and I am still exploring putting to use the things I learned in those 3 days.

www.markandtrisha.com

Denny Kyser · March 5th, 2008, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Grant

Denny,
I can't recomment the VonLankens workshops enough. It will change everything for you. I am over 18 months out of mine, and I am still exploring putting to use the things I learned in those 3 days.

www.markandtrisha.com

I have bought some of his DVD packages, LOVE them and will get to one of his workshops.
Photography has been my full time employment, and this year is already scheduled with a few photography workshops so not sure if I can make one of Marks or not, I know DVD's are only a stepping stone to one of his workshops and need to start watching his schedule.

Thanks for the info, and glad to hear so many people like his workshops.

March 5th, 2008, 07:57 AM	#12
Denny Kyser Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Warren, Pa Posts: 785	Thanks everyone and great advice, and as always very good and will put it to use. I have to admit that logo was just something cool, and of coarse I had to use it. I really enjoy learning video, is also making my photography better. I actually did white balance the video cameras, at the place where they were walking down the road. Maybe I should have white balanced again when we moved but I felt it was in the same type lighting. I have learned to fine tune and process the stills to get such a rich saturated look hard to get the video to that level. Guess its because I have been doing 200-250 session a year have to get good at that. I really need to get to some video workshops, till then will keep relying on you guys, Thanks again and will take your advice. __________________ 2 Canon XF305's Kyser Photography www.kyserphoto.com

March 4th, 2008, 04:02 AM	#1
Denny Kyser Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Warren, Pa Posts: 785	Engagement Session to share. I am still very new to this, and still trying to learn some moving camera and be more creative but here is an engagement from this past Sunday. Was cold, and lots of snow but we still had fun. www.kyserphoto.com/Wilcox.mov __________________ 2 Canon XF305's Kyser Photography www.kyserphoto.com

March 4th, 2008, 07:04 AM	#2
Mark Ganglfinger Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hermon Maine USA Posts: 138	Nice effort. I have never done an engagement video with any of my wedding videos, but if I do, I would like to "borrow" some of your ideas. On a technical note I thought the audio on the interviews was a little distant (it was the on camera mic i'm guessing). It was clear enough to hear though. Second, I'm not sure about your framing during the interviews. You have the subject on left of the screen looking to the left, while there is quite a bit of blank space on the right. Normally you would have the subject facing the open space. If this is an intentional "new" style of shooting I apologize, I just can't bring myself to break this rule. I don't mean to be picky, there is some good stuff in your video, keep it up. Mark G

March 4th, 2008, 08:25 AM	#3
Art Varga Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Belle Mead, NJ Posts: 552	Denny - check your spelling on "Congratulations" . I'd try to get your subjects more animated. I didn't see much contrast between the video and the stills. I also echo Mark's comments on the framing and audio. Nice effort though and quick turnaround ( Sunday?)

March 4th, 2008, 09:32 AM	#5
Tom McDougal Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Port Jefferson, New York Posts: 62	On the interviews...its all about the rule of thirds..put your subject (bride/groom) the first or last third of the screen. With them in the middle looking over the the far left side...it doesn't seem like we are involved in the conversation... When they are tell you their story, be closer to the camera and it will appear that they are talking to the camera to tell there story. Also, dress up your interview area..doesn't seem like anyything is in the background if it was a plain wall, on you wide shots, you could of made some "frame" to rotate some of there egagement pictures around.. Did you use after effects/motion progrom or your NLE?

March 4th, 2008, 09:35 AM	#6
Jason Bowers Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thunder Bay, ON. Canada Posts: 374	hi Denny, This was good for your first attempt. Like anything we try we only get better with more practice. For future attempts though I would try to get a lav mic as the audio sounded to echoish for my liking. I would also try to get a backdrop rather than the kitchen, even a black sheet would really make the couple pop out. Also slow the pace of the pictures to give it a better flow with the music and really draw in the viewer. I think you are really on the right track and the couple will definitely love it. One last thing which is a pet peeve of mine is the "good luck" at the end, it always sounds like we don't really believe that they'll make it. Just my opinion though. Jason

March 4th, 2008, 11:56 AM	#8
Mark Ganglfinger Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hermon Maine USA Posts: 138	I got to thinkin after I left my post about the sound problem, and I wonder if part of the problem too was the fact that your subjects were right up against a wall which could give you a nasty little reflection. I know the "big boys" (one of which I am not!) would move the furniture all around and away from walls to get the best picture and audio possible. Mark G

March 4th, 2008, 12:32 PM	#9
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	Hey Denny, This looks good for a first try. I hate doing these things because of all of the elements that are at work here. I still have them on my price sheet, but I don't sell them much at all. And let me say that it helps everyone when you post clips. This is where you start to really learn the differences between photography & video. I remember when I was right there. I wasn't working with near the level of camera that you are but I digress. Several things that stood out to me. #1 Video is about motion, so in my opinion the moving shots are very important. Contrasting those moving shots with some still detail shots is important too. Camera handling can help you with either of these things. I have found the VonLanken techniques for camera movement to be the trick, but also there has to be a good bit of practice to get it right. Concentrate, and slow down. These are the things that really helped me move farther forward. #2 Audio is more than half the battle, and very new to photographers. I would suggest to find a good audio workflow, whether it is external recorder, wired lapel, or wireless, and record interviews the same way every time. #3 Story and continuity is so important with video. If a love story like this isn't going to "re-enact" the story their telling (which let's face it, very rarely works) then you need to have one wow shot after another. This is where the photography part comes in. You know how to to do those mind blowing shots with photography, now apply that to the love story, and there's your b-roll. I echo the other things that have been said here, but also to say that learning how to punch up your colors would be helpful, the interviews lack saturation. The thing is, this is the beginning of your trip into video storytelling and it is very exciting. Once you have these tools (camera handling, audio, storytelling, etc.) you can do ANYTHING in video. Good luck, and thanks for posting, it is very hard to do that, I know. Bill

March 4th, 2008, 10:46 PM	#10
Rich Woodrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: La Porte, IN Posts: 43	Denny nice job for starters, I plan on doing this type of interview soon. I like the mixed in shaky hand held shoots with the steady shots. I think your titles were quite cheesy though. I'm sure you'll do much better on your next one. Your getting some great advice from this forum. Rich

March 4th, 2008, 11:34 PM	#11
Frank Simpson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bozeman, MT Posts: 217	I tend to agree with Rich. Brush Script is one of the most over-used typefaces of all time. And when using a script face you should never loosen up the tracking to leave space between characters. The whole idea of a script is that is forms a continuous shape. Almost all of the video seems to have a color cast which makes me think that no white balancing was done. The stills, by contrast, look great. Unfortunately this points up the shortcomings of the video. The framing of the interviews has already been addressed, but I wonder if it would have cut better with her facing camera Left, and him facing camera right? By using a quick dissolve the eye would be led from one side of the screen to the other. As it is the jump cut when they're discussing the proposal makes it look like she suddenly turns into him. Especially since they were both shot in the same place. Perhaps not the most elegant way to change. Also, I personally have a problem with logos that do tricks like exploding for no apparent reason. When I think "photographer" I don't think "explosion". As in all things, just because you can use an effect does not necessarily mean you should. "Because it's cool" is never justification for an effect. Keep at it! We all get better with each successive project!