Wedding video music (who picks it?) at DVinfo.net

Samuel Hinterlang · January 16th, 2008, 04:31 AM

Just trying to get an idea of what other people are doing.
I have done production work for stuff like real estate and would just pick music that would fit a sort of middle of the road contemporary feel in would tend to shove it to the back as there was voice-overs going on. I have also done things like commercial spots and just pick what seems right with the visual feel of the piece, even writing music for a few when I felt inspired.

Now here I am getting ready to move into the now unknown to me regions of wedding videography and need a bit of a clue.

Do you folks generally just pick something that seems right or let the B&G pick?
I'm afraid to leave that open to the client, since they are inevitably going to pick copyrighted songs or some junk their cousin made that they think is funny or something.

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(sorry to keep asking audio questions here, but am only asking here as it is about weddings in specific; hope this is ok)

Matthew Craggs · January 16th, 2008, 08:04 AM

The first couple of weddings, I let the bride and groom pick the music, but I'm just too scared of copyright now to do it.

The way it works if it's a wedding I am doing independently, I pick something royalty free. However, most of my weddings come through studios with the policy of the "If the bride and groom give us the music and sign off on having the rights to reproduce it, we can blame them if we get caught" variety. Which still makes me nervous, but at least I'm an employee instead of the person making the decision.

Bill Grant · January 16th, 2008, 08:18 AM

Samuel,
I give them a form to fill out that gives my an idea of the style of music that they like, the style they don't like, and artists and songs that have always been their favorites. I also ask them what their favorite movies are, and what time they were in high school. This question lets me know what was popular when they were forming their tastes in music, and can guide me pretty well. Some don't fill out the form, and then I have to pick everything, but most fill it out, and it gives me a good starting point. Hope that helps. Let's try to answer the original question here and not get off on a copyright discussion, but there you go.
Bill

Ethan Cooper · January 16th, 2008, 08:30 AM

I like the idea of the form and the "when were you in high school" question.

I tend to pick the music myself since most couples don't have a clue as to what songs edit well and when they do request specific music it tends to be the same old horrible stuff you always hear on a wedding video.
I often use the song from their first dance to cover the reception footage, but even this makes me cringe most of the time.
My method is to keep my mouth shut and not bring it up unless they specifically come to me and ask for something, at that point I don't say anything contrary and just take my lumps on that one and go with it. It's their purchase after-all.

If you want to hear some creative song choices watch some of David Mathew Bonner's stuff. I'm not brave enough to try those.

Michael Liebergot · January 16th, 2008, 12:03 PM

I used to use pre recorded music, or music that the couple provided to me.
But now since my editing style has changed to more of short form Journalistic style (where I use only live a live ambient audio mix for key and bed audio), I now use the actual music (never pre recorded) that was played during the day.

I prefer the actual audio (either from board or micing the room for recording) and ambient audio mix. To me, it seems like a much more realistic video to use the mix of music and ambient audio. Also since the couple have pre selected the music for the day, the couple have already supplied me with more than enough music to chose from.

It means much more of an audio capture setup than simply push record on the camera and go. but I got my start in audio anyway.

BTW I record with one or more of these recorders:
Edirol R09: Board feed (reception) and readings during the ceremony).
Zoom H2: using built in mics in 4CH surround mode, mic PA stack in front side of the mic and record ambiant crowd in the rear mics
Marantz PMD620: Use built in mics/line in or external mics to record ambient mix.
Edirol R4: Take 2 feeds from board in CH 1/2 and external mic AT822) or mics (Rode NT5's) for ambient feeds in CH 3/4. Both are recorded and mixed perfectly to internal 80GB HD as WAV 24/96.

I use the R4 mainly for recording live bands, which it really shines. I use the other recorders on a more regular basis where needed.

Peter Ralph · January 16th, 2008, 02:51 PM

using the actual music makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure I would trust an un-monitored audio recorder though. DJs often have a very weak grasp of audio.

Michael Liebergot · January 16th, 2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ralph

using the actual music makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure I would trust an un-monitored audio recorder though. DJs often have a very weak grasp of audio.

Actually I have had very good luck with my audio capture.
I generally know more bout the DJ's boards than they do, so my getting a feed out of their board (usually a tape or record out) isn't that much of an issue.

But honestly I really prefer micing the PA stack and the room for my audio.
As long as my levels are set properly (pre amps on mics or recorders, I am gold.

I always double mic my sources. So for example, I will place a wireless handheld mic along with my recorder (with external mic or use built in mics with pre amps set to medium or low) on a mic stand in front of a PA stack. I now get 2 audio feed sources, one sent to my camera via wireless (which I can monitor) and the other recorded to my recorder. It only takes me 10 minutes to setup and I know what I am getting since I am monitoring via headsets in my camera. BTW, I really only use the camera audio for backup sync-able audio.

And if I use the R4 for live recording (board feed and external mic feed), the R4's built in pre amps are so good that I have NEVER had to worry about maxed out clipped audio. If I desire I can also send a wireless feed from the R4 to my camera for backup/sync audio that I now am monitoring in my headsets. As long as I have a proper feed, I'm again golden.

There's always a way to get great audio, it's just up to us to figure out a way that works best for our workflow.

Peter Ralph · January 16th, 2008, 03:19 PM

For the reception I use a wireless transmitter plugged in to the board and feed that to as many cameras as I'm using. On the main camera I will use that on ch1 and an on camera mic on ch2. If I'm running a second cam I'll feed the wireless to both channels and set ch2 a few db lower than ch1 to guard against clipping. The secret to getting good sound from a prosumer cam is to run the levels as high as possible.

I always like to have an on-camera audio source if poss because people at wedding receptions do have a habit of talking/shouting/singing to the cam.

The edirol will give better sound as long as the sound levels don't need tweaking, and the DJ doesn't throw a spanner in the works.

Michael Liebergot · January 16th, 2008, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ralph

For the reception I use a wireless transmitter plugged in to the board and feed that to as many cameras as I'm using. On the main camera I will use that on ch1 and an on camera mic on ch2. If I'm running a second cam I'll feed the wireless to both channels and set ch2 a few db lower than ch1 to guard against clipping. The secret to getting good sound from a prosumer cam is to run the levels as high as possible.

I always like to have an on-camera audio source if poss because people at wedding receptions do have a habit of talking/shouting/singing to the cam.

I used to run my audio like you, board into camera and shotgun mic for ambient audio.
The reason that I got away form this practice is that I get better sounding audio with my recorders, especially since switching to HDV (HD audio is too compressed for my liking).

I still send feeds from wireless (board or wireless mic on PA stack), and use that for backup sync audio, while still using onboard shotgun mic for crowd reaction. I then mix the audio in post for more of a live feel with crowd audio coming from different ends of the dance floor. I like to burn my DVD's in 5.1 surround sound and the extra audio sources help.

If I wasn't using my audio from the recorder as my main audio, my butt would have grass a few times. As I've had a tape dropout or two at important moments, where the audio was needed.

No right or wrong way to record audio, as there are many different ways to go about it. What works for you might now be best for me and visa versa.

Another reason for me wanting to use recorders in my workflow, is the upcoming disappearance of UHF audio signals in 2009 (FCC selling off UHF frequencies to radio and tv stations).

Alan Craig · January 17th, 2008, 02:04 AM

OK guy's I think that you are going off on a tangent I think what Samuel was asking is do you let the Bride pick the background music that will be dubbed over the ceremony and wedding breakfast not what the DJ will be playing in the evening or is it me who has it wrong it would not be the first time.

Alan

Allen Plowman · January 17th, 2008, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Craig

OK guy's I think that you are going off on a tangent I think what Samuel was asking is do you let the Bride pick the background music that will be dubbed over the ceremony and wedding breakfast not what the DJ will be playing in the evening or is it me who has it wrong it would not be the first time.

Alan

did someone mention breakfast?

seriously, I think it depends on your editing style. do you think of the perfect song to fit the ambiance and mood of a scene? or does the bride want a favorite song on her video? can you select scenes to fit a song, or would you rather pick a song to fit the scenes?

Alan Craig · January 17th, 2008, 12:13 PM

The job of a wedding videographer is to record exactly what happened on a couples wedding day that is what he or she is getting paid to do.

The choice of background music during the wedding ceremony and the breakfast is upto the videographer unless the Bride and Groom specificaly ask for something to be included, at that stage the videographer can advise differently if he or she thinks that it would not be appropiate but at the end of the day it's the man who pays the piper who calls the tune and if the videographer don't like it then thats just hard luck.

I have done a few weddings now and have never seen a DJ playing music at the ceremony or wedding breakfast in my experience the DJ does not even turn up till the evening which is where I think people went off on a tangent.
Allen I did mention breakfast unfortunately it's all gone sorry mate.
Alan

Steven Davis · January 17th, 2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ralph

using the actual music makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure I would trust an un-monitored audio recorder though. DJs often have a very weak grasp of audio.

Once I used the actual, ok maybe more than once, I used the actual song that was sung in the ceremony for DVD background. It worked very well with the art I used.

Other than using the live stuff, I use what I hear and see the couple enjoy at the reception, which often ends up being what they give me on my questionairre.

Alan Craig · January 17th, 2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Craig

The choice of background music during the wedding ceremony and the breakfast is upto the videographer unless the Bride and Groom specificaly ask for something to be included
Alan

I should have added "If there is no background music already being played in the church or at the breakfast"

Alan

Samuel Hinterlang · January 18th, 2008, 11:04 AM

It's funny how many posts you'll see when you gone for a couple days :P

I feel like the actual wedding ceremony is gonna have the wedding and that's it.
Actually the whole point as far as documentation goes, it is supposed to be the boring teeth grinding details.

I guess I missed my own point and was wondering more about the shorts that I see. The five/ten minute edit type stuff, DVD menus.

After giving the whole thing a bit of thought I feel like Bill Grant's approach is spot on. You just need to get a feel for the couple and balance it with the feel of the edit just like any other non-wedding client.
Ethan also sheds some good light on the subject, but I would advise against anything copyrighted to my clients as I always have.

Thanks for the insight folks, including a bit of the tangent discussion :)

January 16th, 2008, 04:31 AM	#1
Samuel Hinterlang Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Posts: 79	Wedding video music (who picks it?) Just trying to get an idea of what other people are doing. I have done production work for stuff like real estate and would just pick music that would fit a sort of middle of the road contemporary feel in would tend to shove it to the back as there was voice-overs going on. I have also done things like commercial spots and just pick what seems right with the visual feel of the piece, even writing music for a few when I felt inspired. Now here I am getting ready to move into the now unknown to me regions of wedding videography and need a bit of a clue. Do you folks generally just pick something that seems right or let the B&G pick? I'm afraid to leave that open to the client, since they are inevitably going to pick copyrighted songs or some junk their cousin made that they think is funny or something. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- (sorry to keep asking audio questions here, but am only asking here as it is about weddings in specific; hope this is ok)

January 16th, 2008, 08:30 AM	#4
Ethan Cooper Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 1,400 Images: 5	I like the idea of the form and the "when were you in high school" question. I tend to pick the music myself since most couples don't have a clue as to what songs edit well and when they do request specific music it tends to be the same old horrible stuff you always hear on a wedding video. I often use the song from their first dance to cover the reception footage, but even this makes me cringe most of the time. My method is to keep my mouth shut and not bring it up unless they specifically come to me and ask for something, at that point I don't say anything contrary and just take my lumps on that one and go with it. It's their purchase after-all. If you want to hear some creative song choices watch some of David Mathew Bonner's stuff. I'm not brave enough to try those. __________________ ∅ -Ethan Cooper

January 16th, 2008, 12:03 PM	#5
Michael Liebergot Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,505	I used to use pre recorded music, or music that the couple provided to me. But now since my editing style has changed to more of short form Journalistic style (where I use only live a live ambient audio mix for key and bed audio), I now use the actual music (never pre recorded) that was played during the day. I prefer the actual audio (either from board or micing the room for recording) and ambient audio mix. To me, it seems like a much more realistic video to use the mix of music and ambient audio. Also since the couple have pre selected the music for the day, the couple have already supplied me with more than enough music to chose from. It means much more of an audio capture setup than simply push record on the camera and go. but I got my start in audio anyway. BTW I record with one or more of these recorders: Edirol R09: Board feed (reception) and readings during the ceremony). Zoom H2: using built in mics in 4CH surround mode, mic PA stack in front side of the mic and record ambiant crowd in the rear mics Marantz PMD620: Use built in mics/line in or external mics to record ambient mix. Edirol R4: Take 2 feeds from board in CH 1/2 and external mic AT822) or mics (Rode NT5's) for ambient feeds in CH 3/4. Both are recorded and mixed perfectly to internal 80GB HD as WAV 24/96. I use the R4 mainly for recording live bands, which it really shines. I use the other recorders on a more regular basis where needed. __________________ Michael www.lvpvideo.com

January 16th, 2008, 08:04 AM	#2
Matthew Craggs Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Welland, Ontario Posts: 311	The first couple of weddings, I let the bride and groom pick the music, but I'm just too scared of copyright now to do it. The way it works if it's a wedding I am doing independently, I pick something royalty free. However, most of my weddings come through studios with the policy of the "If the bride and groom give us the music and sign off on having the rights to reproduce it, we can blame them if we get caught" variety. Which still makes me nervous, but at least I'm an employee instead of the person making the decision.

January 16th, 2008, 08:18 AM	#3
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	Samuel, I give them a form to fill out that gives my an idea of the style of music that they like, the style they don't like, and artists and songs that have always been their favorites. I also ask them what their favorite movies are, and what time they were in high school. This question lets me know what was popular when they were forming their tastes in music, and can guide me pretty well. Some don't fill out the form, and then I have to pick everything, but most fill it out, and it gives me a good starting point. Hope that helps. Let's try to answer the original question here and not get off on a copyright discussion, but there you go. Bill

January 16th, 2008, 02:51 PM	#6
Peter Ralph Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Denver/Vail Colorado Posts: 254	using the actual music makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure I would trust an un-monitored audio recorder though. DJs often have a very weak grasp of audio.

January 16th, 2008, 03:19 PM	#8
Peter Ralph Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Denver/Vail Colorado Posts: 254	For the reception I use a wireless transmitter plugged in to the board and feed that to as many cameras as I'm using. On the main camera I will use that on ch1 and an on camera mic on ch2. If I'm running a second cam I'll feed the wireless to both channels and set ch2 a few db lower than ch1 to guard against clipping. The secret to getting good sound from a prosumer cam is to run the levels as high as possible. I always like to have an on-camera audio source if poss because people at wedding receptions do have a habit of talking/shouting/singing to the cam. The edirol will give better sound as long as the sound levels don't need tweaking, and the DJ doesn't throw a spanner in the works.

January 17th, 2008, 02:04 AM	#10
Alan Craig Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Warrington England Posts: 143	OK guy's I think that you are going off on a tangent I think what Samuel was asking is do you let the Bride pick the background music that will be dubbed over the ceremony and wedding breakfast not what the DJ will be playing in the evening or is it me who has it wrong it would not be the first time. Alan

January 17th, 2008, 12:13 PM	#12
Alan Craig Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Warrington England Posts: 143	The job of a wedding videographer is to record exactly what happened on a couples wedding day that is what he or she is getting paid to do. The choice of background music during the wedding ceremony and the breakfast is upto the videographer unless the Bride and Groom specificaly ask for something to be included, at that stage the videographer can advise differently if he or she thinks that it would not be appropiate but at the end of the day it's the man who pays the piper who calls the tune and if the videographer don't like it then thats just hard luck. I have done a few weddings now and have never seen a DJ playing music at the ceremony or wedding breakfast in my experience the DJ does not even turn up till the evening which is where I think people went off on a tangent. Allen I did mention breakfast unfortunately it's all gone sorry mate. Alan

January 18th, 2008, 11:04 AM	#15
Samuel Hinterlang Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Posts: 79	It's funny how many posts you'll see when you gone for a couple days :P I feel like the actual wedding ceremony is gonna have the wedding and that's it. Actually the whole point as far as documentation goes, it is supposed to be the boring teeth grinding details. I guess I missed my own point and was wondering more about the shorts that I see. The five/ten minute edit type stuff, DVD menus. After giving the whole thing a bit of thought I feel like Bill Grant's approach is spot on. You just need to get a feel for the couple and balance it with the feel of the edit just like any other non-wedding client. Ethan also sheds some good light on the subject, but I would advise against anything copyrighted to my clients as I always have. Thanks for the insight folks, including a bit of the tangent discussion :)