The Videographer.

Dennis Murphy · January 9th, 2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethan Cooper

...but there is less context to make it feel dated, namely the music and style of shooting and edit.

Honestly, if I see another dutch angle or black and white section every 5th clip I'm gonna do something really bad.
I'm talking badder than Michael Jackson bad.

Ethan Cooper · January 9th, 2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ger Griffin

My point is that if the wedding couple can choose HQ prints from the videos of the future then it's inevitable that video will take over.
Or maybe its just wishful thinking on my part :)

Well, this is a video forum so your thoughts may be a bit biased. I wouldn't be surprised to see people offering this service in the future, but I still don't think a high quality frame grab is anywhere close to the type of shot a good photographer can get, just as a good photographer wouldn't have a clue about moving camera techniques or good editing.
Not every shot they do translated well to video, not every shot a videographer gets translates well to photo.

Ethan Cooper · January 9th, 2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy

Honestly, if I see another dutch angle or black and white section every 5th clip I'm gonna do something really bad.
I'm talking badder than Michael Jackson bad.

I used to think this way too... then I realized the guys who were doing that style were making way more $$ than me. So I adapted and guess what? Business picked up. Sometimes change aint so bad.

Ethan Cooper · January 9th, 2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethan Cooper

I used to think this way too... then I realized the guys who were doing that style were making way more $$ than me. So I adapted and guess what? Business picked up. Sometimes change aint so bad.

***EDIT***
I should have said, sometimes being trendy ain't so bad. Maybe current is a better word than trendy but it sounds snobby in this context.

Denny Kyser · January 9th, 2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Bishop

Denny,
From what you've already said in your posts, it shows that you do understand the tools and techniques that make a great video and every aspect of it that is the same and different than photography. I'm definitely not saying you're trying to be a one stop shot...just wanted to make sure you didn't take it that way. I was referring to my own experiences with people around here.

:-) Matt

Matt, I had not taken it that way, just wanted to make sure people knew I was by no means competeing for video business, only offering something that is not available at a professional level. The only video offered in this county that I know of was used at last years fair, and it was a small dv recorder, palm size on a walmart tripod, that was the extent of it. Never moved except panned a little during the talent part. The DVD given to the fair was like it was shot, no editing and skipped bad.
This is what made me decide to look into video.

Art Varga · January 9th, 2008, 03:08 PM

Denis - regarding your comment

"no one I know has ever offered to show me a wedding video"

For my last wedding, I posted the B&G's highlight clip on a secure website (part of my service). I monitored well over 100 views in 30 days. I'm guessing they were able to share this video with as many people as they would a photo album, at least initially. The web changes the game....

Art

Denny Kyser · January 9th, 2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Varga

Denis - regarding your comment

"no one I know has ever offered to show me a wedding video"

For my last wedding, I posted the B&G's highlight clip on a secure website (part of my service). I monitored well over 100 views in 30 days. I'm guessing they were able to share this video with as many people as they would a photo album, at least initially. The web changes the game....

Art

Art, I was quoting someone else when I put that. I agree, the highlight show and the web does change everything.

Steven Davis · January 9th, 2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Varga

Denis - regarding your comment

"no one I know has ever offered to show me a wedding video"

For my last wedding, I posted the B&G's highlight clip on a secure website (part of my service). I monitored well over 100 views in 30 days. I'm guessing they were able to share this video with as many people as they would a photo album, at least initially. The web changes the game....

Art

Hey Art; Question; This is sort of off subject but.

I have highlights posted on my website as well, I could easily make them secure and have give the link to my b&gs.

So did you recieve good feedback from doing this, and did you charge them for the service?

Denny Kyser · January 9th, 2008, 03:23 PM

Video will soon if not now creat a decent enough image. I can take a pretty small file and with some processing in PS CS3 and my lab make a nice 11X14 canvas print.

The difference will be if the person behind the video camera will think like a photographer that second or period of time and make sure the lighting is perfect, the light falls accross the face lighting both eyes and making a triangle on the opposite cheek. This is what makes a portrait, not the background. This also makes for AWSOME video when lit so perfect, watch some old movies, or CMT, or VH1 videos and see what a difference lighting makes.

So if the good video guys continue to get better, and better equipment I see them being able to cut into the avearage photographers business by offering a good print and good quality video.

This is a good thing for those of you that are already good and for us photographers who still want to be in the game 10 years from now, its a good time to learn a new aspect of the business, especially if you truly love it.

Art Varga · January 9th, 2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Davis

I have highlights posted on my website as well, I could easily make them secure and have give the link to my b&gs.

So did you recieve good feedback from doing this, and did you charge them for the service?

Steven -I include the highlight video posting as part of standard package. No extra fee. Feedback from customers is very positive.

Steven Davis · January 9th, 2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Varga

Steven -I include the highlight video posting as part of standard package. No extra fee. Feedback from customers is very positive.

Interesting, I must ponder what I want to do.

Dave Blackhurst · January 9th, 2008, 03:53 PM

Pulling pretty good stills from video is an option with HD cameras - a little editing and they can look quite good. I wouldn't use 'em for the "money shots", but work fine for "2nd cam" perspective. Haven't had anyone notice yet, and in fact had complements on some! One that I composited from several cam angles actually was a favorite of the bride and groom (I hated it, but it was the only way to recreate "the kiss" since the groom dipped the bride without warning, and since the wedding was on a riverboat, there was no repositioning - had to go with the "b-cam footage".

I've talked to a few people who say they watch the video more often than they look at the pix... so the video has an appeal to SOME. Both are valid.

I guess using the DVD analogy - if the wedding video you deliver is "Gigli", not too likely anyone will watch it once (if that)... if it's "Titanic", or "Cars", or otherwise of high quality and compelling/enjoyable/exciting to watch, then you've got something!

What it comes down to is whether the final product is "a handycam on a Wally world tripod", or a quality mixed down, edited, color corrected rememberance of a special day. There's a difference.

I've seen some crappy photography work too, and I've seen stunning shooting, where I don't know the couple, but I can FEEL the moment in a good way, rather than noticing how bad the composition/color/exposure is.

The main challenge is getting paid well enough to create quality... and presenting it so that the client understands.

Matt Bishop · January 9th, 2008, 04:13 PM

Steven,
Regarding your question, the web is an amazing marketing tool. We have always had our website and had demos on there, but this year I decided to start a blog. My advice to anyone: if you have time, do this!!! I do spend more time creating demos and highlights but the traffic has been unbelievable. I just see it as more advertising. Once I get done with a wedding, I will put together a highlights video or trailer so they have something until I get to their video a few weeks later. Then I send them the link to the blog and tell them to feel free to send it to anyone they want. Most of the brides have just gone crazy over this and I had one bride send it to over 100 people. You get a lot more views that you would without this and more people are then seeing your work. I have found that they are more interested soon after the wedding than a few months later so putting something up sooner than later has been a huge hit!

Brides that we're getting now have seen all that work and look forward to seeing their own so I'm getting a lot of returning traffic too. People that constantly follow up with what we're doing throughout the year.

Just something else to ponder :-)

Matt

Matt Duke · January 9th, 2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Varga

Denis - regarding your comment

"no one I know has ever offered to show me a wedding video"

For my last wedding, I posted the B&G's highlight clip on a secure website (part of my service). I monitored well over 100 views in 30 days. I'm guessing they were able to share this video with as many people as they would a photo album, at least initially. The web changes the game....

Art

Art, did you find that bride and groom's preferred for this clip to be secure? I've been thinking of adding highlights for each wedding, but giving them an individual link, however other visitors can view the clip as well. This way killing two birds with one stone, using it as a demo to potential clients as well as letting all the family and friends see it.

James Klatt · January 9th, 2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy

Honestly, if I see another dutch angle or black and white section every 5th clip I'm gonna do something really bad.
I'm talking badder than Michael Jackson bad.

Man, I am with you. They have become synonymous with wedding videos. Whenever I watch someone else's work I have to half cover my eyes until I realize I won't be subjected to a poor man's DeBeer's commercial.

I always operate under the philosophy that the space and situation dictate how to shoot and how to edit, but most people videographers are less about reacting and observing than they are making sure they get all the dutch angles, etc.

If a video is gonna be rewatchable for the test of time, a connection must be made to the moment and the people. Style should be born out of necessity.
There shouldn't be an agenda.

The only thing over-stylization does for me is to distance me from being moved in any sincere way.

Alright, I'll get off my soapbox. I heard "dutch angle" and I started twitching.

January 9th, 2008, 03:23 PM	#24
Denny Kyser Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Warren, Pa Posts: 785	Video will soon if not now creat a decent enough image. I can take a pretty small file and with some processing in PS CS3 and my lab make a nice 11X14 canvas print. The difference will be if the person behind the video camera will think like a photographer that second or period of time and make sure the lighting is perfect, the light falls accross the face lighting both eyes and making a triangle on the opposite cheek. This is what makes a portrait, not the background. This also makes for AWSOME video when lit so perfect, watch some old movies, or CMT, or VH1 videos and see what a difference lighting makes. So if the good video guys continue to get better, and better equipment I see them being able to cut into the avearage photographers business by offering a good print and good quality video. This is a good thing for those of you that are already good and for us photographers who still want to be in the game 10 years from now, its a good time to learn a new aspect of the business, especially if you truly love it. __________________ 2 Canon XF305's Kyser Photography www.kyserphoto.com

January 9th, 2008, 04:13 PM	#28
Matt Bishop Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: East Moline, IL Posts: 231	Steven, Regarding your question, the web is an amazing marketing tool. We have always had our website and had demos on there, but this year I decided to start a blog. My advice to anyone: if you have time, do this!!! I do spend more time creating demos and highlights but the traffic has been unbelievable. I just see it as more advertising. Once I get done with a wedding, I will put together a highlights video or trailer so they have something until I get to their video a few weeks later. Then I send them the link to the blog and tell them to feel free to send it to anyone they want. Most of the brides have just gone crazy over this and I had one bride send it to over 100 people. You get a lot more views that you would without this and more people are then seeing your work. I have found that they are more interested soon after the wedding than a few months later so putting something up sooner than later has been a huge hit! Brides that we're getting now have seen all that work and look forward to seeing their own so I'm getting a lot of returning traffic too. People that constantly follow up with what we're doing throughout the year. Just something else to ponder :-) Matt __________________ www.mediainnovations-online.com www.mediainnovationsblog.com

January 9th, 2008, 03:08 PM	#21
Art Varga Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Belle Mead, NJ Posts: 552	Denis - regarding your comment "no one I know has ever offered to show me a wedding video" For my last wedding, I posted the B&G's highlight clip on a secure website (part of my service). I monitored well over 100 views in 30 days. I'm guessing they were able to share this video with as many people as they would a photo album, at least initially. The web changes the game.... Art

January 9th, 2008, 03:53 PM	#27
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Pulling pretty good stills from video is an option with HD cameras - a little editing and they can look quite good. I wouldn't use 'em for the "money shots", but work fine for "2nd cam" perspective. Haven't had anyone notice yet, and in fact had complements on some! One that I composited from several cam angles actually was a favorite of the bride and groom (I hated it, but it was the only way to recreate "the kiss" since the groom dipped the bride without warning, and since the wedding was on a riverboat, there was no repositioning - had to go with the "b-cam footage". I've talked to a few people who say they watch the video more often than they look at the pix... so the video has an appeal to SOME. Both are valid. I guess using the DVD analogy - if the wedding video you deliver is "Gigli", not too likely anyone will watch it once (if that)... if it's "Titanic", or "Cars", or otherwise of high quality and compelling/enjoyable/exciting to watch, then you've got something! What it comes down to is whether the final product is "a handycam on a Wally world tripod", or a quality mixed down, edited, color corrected rememberance of a special day. There's a difference. I've seen some crappy photography work too, and I've seen stunning shooting, where I don't know the couple, but I can FEEL the moment in a good way, rather than noticing how bad the composition/color/exposure is. The main challenge is getting paid well enough to create quality... and presenting it so that the client understands.