My first HDV wedding (clip)

Glen Elliott · November 16th, 2007, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Varga

Glen - fantastic piece! Did you shoot that in 24P or 60i?

Thanks Art. This was shot in Canon's 24f mode.

Glen Elliott · November 16th, 2007, 07:01 PM

You don't have a clue who I am, but I've admired your work for a few years. You were one of the reasons I decided to stick with doing weddings, and saw the potential that the market could have. At the time I was working at a production company making commercials, and doing high end corporate videos but after seeing the work you were doing and in the last couple years or so, the work I've seen out of a growing number of other wedding videographers, I decided to give up my decent production job and dive full time into the world of weddings. I guess you could say that you were one of my wedding videography heroes.
Wow that's very flattering Ethan. Thank you for the kind words. I've got just as much to owe to the community as I'm constantly inspired by others as well.

Anyway, after that little aside, let's get back on topic here.
I liked the piece but one thing kept bothering me. You slowed down (and pitch shifted?) the song. (unless there's a different version out there I don't know about) I've used that same song in one of my videos and the tempo kept throwing me off. Anyone not familiar with the song wouldn't care, and most likely anyone who didn't sit with it for hours on end wouldn't notice, but it was killing me. Don't get me wrong, it fit the mood of the piece, and the edit was good. Maybe I'm just a little too emotionally attached to the original.
Are you sure? I didn't alter it in any way regarding pitch or speed. I've heard the song on the radio, etc and this sounds right to me. Now you've got me curious...

How did your XHA1's handle in low light? That's been my biggest complaint of going HD thus far. With decent light, my little FX7 blows my previous cameras out of the water, but in a dim ceremony it's a different story. I just wrote a little rant about HD and low light if anyone cares to chime in, slap me around, or agree.
The biggest adjustment, other than having to become a talented manual focuser, is dealing with the lack of sensitivity in low light. No matter what HDV cam you buy at this point your not going to get PD-170 sensitivity. It's ok though because with the right approach you can create images even better looking in low light than the 170.

For some reason HDV color holds up better under dim lighting. Maybe it's the 4:2:1 color-space. The PD-170, while very sensitive, gave a very unsaturated image in low light scenarios. The A1 and other HDV cams seem to retain much more saturation as the lights dim, regardless of the image being less exposed.

What I do, first, is lower my shutter. I shoot almost exclusively in 24f mode which is at a default shutter of 1/48th. When I drop to 1/24th there's almost no distinguishable difference in motion because I'm already shooting 24f. Where as with the Z1 for example, shooting 60i, when you drop it to 1/30th you introduce some stuttery strobing that didn't exist at 1/60th.

Halving the shutter is good for at least a stop or two. Then I compliment it with off-camera lighting. Something more powerful than the regular Sony 10/20. Overall I think my low-light reception stuff looks better than my PD-170 content ever looked.

It's nice to see a Glen Elliott video out there again. In my mind you are like the godfather of high quality wedding videography.
Thanks again Ethan for the kind words- but I'm far from deserving of a title like that! Besides..."godfather"...I'm relatively young still and I have soooo much yet to learn.__________________

Glen Elliott · November 16th, 2007, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Oveson

Incredible cinematography Glenn. This is the best example of something shot in HDV that I have seen to date. I wouldn't have expected less, but wow.

Wow, really- thank you. I'm going to be finishing up another trailer in a few weeks I'll try and encode it larger next time. Small files don't do HD justice.

Glen Elliott · November 16th, 2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Liebergot

Glen, as usual fantastic edit.
The A1 really seems to produce some great low light images as well. I wish that I would be able to work weddings where couples actually hired a lighting designer. It really gives a great sense of depth to the image.

I only have 2 questions:
Did you do much color correcting (grading) to this, or was it purely the actual video itself?

Was this shot or changed over to 24P or straight 1080i?
I only ask, because the slomo on the last clip seems stuttery. Although that could strictly be the QT compression.

Hey Michael, how are you? Yeah I wish all brides hired lighting for their venus it makes so much of a difference.

There wasn't a single filter on any clips what so ever. Completely raw files directly from camera. Another reason I like shooting HDV, the colors end up closer, if not on point, whith what I'm looking for.

This was shot in 24f and edited in a 1080p, 24 timeline. I'm not even quite sure how 24"f" is classified but this particular easy setup gives me dark grey bars which is a green light. I know it's not the same a true 24p w/ advanced pulldown but my eyes can't see the difference. I love the look of 24f with HDV. Helps alleviate some of the motion artifacting from the HDV compression as well.

Glen Elliott · November 16th, 2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yang Wen

With all the talk of having an advantage of the being able to film such a high end wedding to help contribute to the final quality of the video. I think it's worth saying some of the best shots IMO were of the bride opening the door to receive the groom, which was in normal outdoor day light. Captured perfectly.. that scene actually reminded me a lot of the movie Love Actually.

The clips looks like it was shot at 24P and I actually dig the stuttery slow-mo of 24P. It's much more visceral than a smooth-as-silk 60i slow-mo footage.

I was a bit worried when I commited to shooting the last 2 weedings in full 24f. I knew it would limit my ability to use slow-motion. Not that I couldn't use it but I think the stutter of 24p slow-motion would grow tiresome if it was on several clips back to back. Besides I've been trying to get away from using slow-motion in my edits, which coincidently I feel is one of our industries biggest editing crutches.

When you use slow-motion sparingly it means more and stands out...rather than blanketing it over all the clips in a sequence.

Glen Elliott · November 16th, 2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach Stewart

I liked it, but felt like the colors were weak. Needs some adjustment to make it "pop" and add to the flow/tempo of the video.

Hey Zach, thanks for the imput. I'm not sure how coloromitry will affect the "flow/tempo" of the piece but I think I see what you see. When viewing it on my Mac it looks pretty close to what I saw in my canvas in FCP. On a PC it looks a little washed out and less saturated. Granted there were some shots that could have used a push- particularly the fist shot after the outdoor establishing shot.

If I find that I'm pushing saturation in post a great deal I can simply go back and tweak the custom preset to pop the chroma a bit. Thanks again Zach.

Matt Trubac · November 17th, 2007, 09:59 PM

Hey Glen, nice to see your work as you continue to grow and evolve. It looks awesome. I also thought the song sounded different, and couldn't agree with you more on the use of slow-motion. I have been trying to use it much more sparingly. When it is used it creates greater impact and emotion.

What mic are you using on the A1?

Is the light by the dance floor 300 watts, or so? The quality of the light looks hard, but the lamp itself looks like it has a softbox on it. True? Have you had any complaints with the off cam lighting. Are you still using on cam light for additional fill?

Keep up the great work, and thank you for sharing.

Glen Elliott · November 18th, 2007, 04:05 PM

Hey Matt, how are you? If I'm shooting something like a bridal prep I'll use onboard sound. When I need to use wireless systems at the ceremony I've been using the PD-170's stock shotgun mic on my A1. I use this because it's less sensitive than the Senheisser ME66 that I have, which can over clip during applause etc regardless of how conservative my settings are in cam.

The off cam light is only 75 watts. I try to use as little as possible. No complaints yet. Thanks for watching/commenting.

Sean Seah · November 19th, 2007, 10:27 AM

one more ques Glen, this was edited in FCP? If yes howz the switch from Vegas? Was it tough to pick up? NICE work btw..

Stelios Christofides · November 19th, 2007, 01:56 PM

Glen

Excellent Video Glen. Bravo!!!

Stelios

Michael Stewart · November 20th, 2007, 01:08 AM

Great job Glen, always have enjoyed your work, many of the shots looked grainy, how is that camera in low light situations. My FX1's did quite well, I just switched to XH-A1's (in route) any opinions?

Thanks for sharing

Mike

Jason Magbanua · November 20th, 2007, 06:37 PM

Ethan, you are correct, there are 2 versions of the songs floating around, I'm guessing one is the radio cut the other is the studio one. The radio cut is much more sped up, and the vocals border on the whiny.

Glen's version is probably from the CD, much much better and truer to Chris' vocal pitch/tone.

Ethan Cooper · November 20th, 2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Magbanua

Ethan, you are correct, there are 2 versions of the songs floating around, I'm guessing one is the radio cut the other is the studio one. The radio cut is much more sped up, and the vocals border on the whiny.

Glen's version is probably from the CD, much much better and truer to Chris' vocal pitch/tone.

Glad I'm not just losing my mind. Looks like I used the faster/whiny one.

Glen Elliott · November 23rd, 2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Seah

one more ques Glen, this was edited in FCP? If yes howz the switch from Vegas? Was it tough to pick up? NICE work btw..

Hey Sean, yeah it was tough at first but I had a trial by fire so to speak. I just jumped in....which I feel is the best way. Been editing my major projects on FCP now for about a year now.

Glen Elliott · November 23rd, 2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Stewart

Great job Glen, always have enjoyed your work, many of the shots looked grainy, how is that camera in low light situations. My FX1's did quite well, I just switched to XH-A1's (in route) any opinions?

Thanks for sharing

Mike

I noticed if I push the gamma or brightness it makes the grain much more visible. The colors on your monitor must be brighter than mine because the image on my screen is very rich an low in (visible) noise. I did view the clip at work on a PC and it did look brighter there.

I haven't found anyone to do the comparison yet but I've heard from several sources that the A1 actually performs better than the Z1/FX in low light. Most recently from my local PVA, where they had an HD cam shootout including the Z1u, JVC-HD110, XH-A1, and the new Sony XDcam.

A member ranked ability in low light:
1) XDcam
2) XH-A1
3) Z1u
4) JVC110

It's definitely not a PD-170 but I've been pretty happy with the performance thus far. I'll take a little grain with good color over a cleaner image with weak colors (ie PD-170 @ 12db) anyday.

November 16th, 2007, 07:01 PM	#17
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	You don't have a clue who I am, but I've admired your work for a few years. You were one of the reasons I decided to stick with doing weddings, and saw the potential that the market could have. At the time I was working at a production company making commercials, and doing high end corporate videos but after seeing the work you were doing and in the last couple years or so, the work I've seen out of a growing number of other wedding videographers, I decided to give up my decent production job and dive full time into the world of weddings. I guess you could say that you were one of my wedding videography heroes. Wow that's very flattering Ethan. Thank you for the kind words. I've got just as much to owe to the community as I'm constantly inspired by others as well. Anyway, after that little aside, let's get back on topic here. I liked the piece but one thing kept bothering me. You slowed down (and pitch shifted?) the song. (unless there's a different version out there I don't know about) I've used that same song in one of my videos and the tempo kept throwing me off. Anyone not familiar with the song wouldn't care, and most likely anyone who didn't sit with it for hours on end wouldn't notice, but it was killing me. Don't get me wrong, it fit the mood of the piece, and the edit was good. Maybe I'm just a little too emotionally attached to the original. Are you sure? I didn't alter it in any way regarding pitch or speed. I've heard the song on the radio, etc and this sounds right to me. Now you've got me curious... How did your XHA1's handle in low light? That's been my biggest complaint of going HD thus far. With decent light, my little FX7 blows my previous cameras out of the water, but in a dim ceremony it's a different story. I just wrote a little rant about HD and low light if anyone cares to chime in, slap me around, or agree. The biggest adjustment, other than having to become a talented manual focuser, is dealing with the lack of sensitivity in low light. No matter what HDV cam you buy at this point your not going to get PD-170 sensitivity. It's ok though because with the right approach you can create images even better looking in low light than the 170. For some reason HDV color holds up better under dim lighting. Maybe it's the 4:2:1 color-space. The PD-170, while very sensitive, gave a very unsaturated image in low light scenarios. The A1 and other HDV cams seem to retain much more saturation as the lights dim, regardless of the image being less exposed. What I do, first, is lower my shutter. I shoot almost exclusively in 24f mode which is at a default shutter of 1/48th. When I drop to 1/24th there's almost no distinguishable difference in motion because I'm already shooting 24f. Where as with the Z1 for example, shooting 60i, when you drop it to 1/30th you introduce some stuttery strobing that didn't exist at 1/60th. Halving the shutter is good for at least a stop or two. Then I compliment it with off-camera lighting. Something more powerful than the regular Sony 10/20. Overall I think my low-light reception stuff looks better than my PD-170 content ever looked. It's nice to see a Glen Elliott video out there again. In my mind you are like the godfather of high quality wedding videography. Thanks again Ethan for the kind words- but I'm far from deserving of a title like that! Besides..."godfather"...I'm relatively young still and I have soooo much yet to learn.__________________ __________________ Glen Elliott Cord 3 Films

November 17th, 2007, 09:59 PM	#22
Matt Trubac Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 286	Hey Glen, nice to see your work as you continue to grow and evolve. It looks awesome. I also thought the song sounded different, and couldn't agree with you more on the use of slow-motion. I have been trying to use it much more sparingly. When it is used it creates greater impact and emotion. What mic are you using on the A1? Is the light by the dance floor 300 watts, or so? The quality of the light looks hard, but the lamp itself looks like it has a softbox on it. True? Have you had any complaints with the off cam lighting. Are you still using on cam light for additional fill? Keep up the great work, and thank you for sharing. __________________ Matt Trubac

November 18th, 2007, 04:05 PM	#23
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Hey Matt, how are you? If I'm shooting something like a bridal prep I'll use onboard sound. When I need to use wireless systems at the ceremony I've been using the PD-170's stock shotgun mic on my A1. I use this because it's less sensitive than the Senheisser ME66 that I have, which can over clip during applause etc regardless of how conservative my settings are in cam. The off cam light is only 75 watts. I try to use as little as possible. No complaints yet. Thanks for watching/commenting. __________________ Glen Elliott Cord 3 Films

November 19th, 2007, 01:56 PM	#25
Stelios Christofides Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nicosia, CYPRUS Posts: 1,080	Glen Excellent Video Glen. Bravo!!! Stelios __________________ My Blog: http://steliosc.blogspot.com "I hope for nothing, I fear nothing, I am free" Nikos Kazantzakis

November 19th, 2007, 10:27 AM	#24
Sean Seah Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,498	one more ques Glen, this was edited in FCP? If yes howz the switch from Vegas? Was it tough to pick up? NICE work btw..

November 20th, 2007, 01:08 AM	#26
Michael Stewart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane, Wa. Posts: 445	Great job Glen, always have enjoyed your work, many of the shots looked grainy, how is that camera in low light situations. My FX1's did quite well, I just switched to XH-A1's (in route) any opinions? Thanks for sharing Mike

November 20th, 2007, 06:37 PM	#27
Jason Magbanua Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Manila Posts: 317	Ethan, you are correct, there are 2 versions of the songs floating around, I'm guessing one is the radio cut the other is the studio one. The radio cut is much more sped up, and the vocals border on the whiny. Glen's version is probably from the CD, much much better and truer to Chris' vocal pitch/tone.