My first wedding with XH-A1! at DVinfo.net

My first wedding with XH-A1! · June 4th, 2007, 06:45 PM

I have not shot a formal wedding in a long time. I Shot about 6 hours worth of footage with an XHA1 and had a HV20 as a B-Roll. Here is my Intro I am working on for their DVD. It is so hard to make the HD look decent for the Web. This looks amazing in HD on my 30" Apple Display! I did this all in FCS 2. It took me about 7 hours of twidling and tweaking as is FAR from perfect. If I had shot the video smarter, I could have edited it faster. Obviously it is going to look worse here on the web as well.

Please tell me what you helpful people like or don't like about it. This my first wedding edit so be kind! Please...

Thanks,
Ryan

http://home.comcast.net/~rahough/wedding_demo.mov

Ken Wozniak · June 4th, 2007, 09:40 PM

Great job, Ryan.

As far as content goes, the only thing I'd be concerned about is keeping the shot of the bride getting dressed. Is that her girdle?! If so, it might not be appreciated by the bride.

I like the different camera angles. You've made a two-camera shoot look like a three camera shoot. I've never been fortunate enough to have a wedding that allowed me that sort of freedom to move around. My shoots ALWAYS look like two camera shoots.

The only thing that looked like it didn't fit with the rest of the video was the bridal party entrance. I'm thinking the entrance of the bridal party needs at least medium shots of the bridesmaids. The opening wide shot is great, but pulling in would be nice, especially if you could put those shots at the fades you currently have in there. But that's just my opinion. And you can't use what you didn't shoot. I usually follow one bridesmaid for a while before dissolving to the entrance of the next one.

Again, great job. Especially for a first wedding edit. I wish my first wedding edit looked that good. Seriously.

Oren Arieli · June 4th, 2007, 11:22 PM

If you don't mind a slightly more critical analysis of the video, I've got a few suggestions. (if you do mind, then feel free to skip my post).
1. Timing: the music and images do not 'flow' together. You should time the edits to the music for a recap such as this.
2. Shot choices: I think there were at least 3 shots of the flowers, I'm assuming that the flowers didn't change much after the first shot, therefore, no need to show them again (one flower shot seemed to last fore-e-ver). At the beginning of the video, there were a few still shots (no camera motion). I think those are best suited for the still photographers...we're in the motion picture biz. I try to add some sort of movement to every frame (when nothing is moving within the frame). Be creative with your tilts/pans/zooms and rack focus. I know its not easy with the XH-A1, but your continued practice will yield many future rewards (and hopefully awards). Tape is cheap (unlike P2 cards!). A rule I learned back in the day of 'handing over the master to the client' is practice the shot twice, roll tape once. Obviously, this wont work in run-and-gun situations, but try it when possible.
3. Edit down the music. Just because the song is 4 minutes, doesn't mean you need to use it all. I'm a big fan of cutting the song down by half (its easy with most music, chop out a chorus or two and you'll have a seamless reduction of the song that few would notice). This will, in turn, allow you to toss out some of the less-than-exciting shots and keep the sizzle in yo' shizzle, get my drizzle? (I have no idea what I just said, anyone care to translate?). If the shot is boring, technically inferior, or repetive, delete it! Ahhh the joy of non-linear.
4. Nat sound: Were the vows clear? How about including a few well timed snippets of the ceremony? Bonus points if you edit the music to allow an instrumental break WITH the inclusion of vows during that portion.

The footage itself is clear, clean and well done; like a seasoning on a good steak, the editing should enhance the flavor and make it better!

Looking forward to seeing more of your work in the future.

Bill Busby · June 5th, 2007, 02:52 AM

Why is this 12fps? I was curious why the slowmo (which I thought was too much anyway) had some jerky motion to it & then looked at QT's Movie Info... it said it was 12fps which may explain that... but why?

Bill

Ryan Hough · June 5th, 2007, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Busby

Why is this 12fps? I was curious why the slowmo (which I thought was too much anyway) had some jerky motion to it & then looked at QT's Movie Info... it said it was 12fps which may explain that... but why?

Bill

Hey Bill, I enjoy all your informative help on here.
The main reason was file size and the other reason was I had shot it in 24F so I figured half of that SHOULD look OK Instead of say 15fps which is half of 30. I may be wrong. It looked smooth enough for the web I thought.

Thanks for the reply,
Ryan

Ryan Hough · June 5th, 2007, 06:18 AM

Thanks guys for all the input. After you look at your own work for so long, it is great to get a better perspective of your own work. This is a work in progress and I hope to get things to where I really like them. It is funny what some people notice and what others do not. I will try to take the best from all and go with that. I was asked to video this last minute and did it all myself and just hoped for the best. I hope my next wedding goes smoother and get some better footage. I have another video from the same wedding I am working on now. I will post it when I feel it looks decent enough! The second half of the wedding went better than the first.

Again, thanks for the help guys! I love this forum!

Ryan

Bill Busby · June 5th, 2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Hough

The main reason was file size and the other reason was I had shot it in 24F so I figured half of that SHOULD look OK Instead of say 15fps which is half of 30. Ryan

Hey Ryan. I thought after I had posted it may have been shot in 24f & you made your file 1/2 the frame rate or something, but I didn't consider it would make the file size smaller. I suppose it was "ok" for web content here, but our clients would complain about the jerkyness if it was in their final product.

Have you experimented with your NLE as far as slowmo goes? You should get much smoother results, I would think... depending on what you use (NLE, plugins, etc.)

Just a thought :)
Bill

Ryan Hough · June 5th, 2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Busby

Hey Ryan. I thought after I had posted it may have been shot in 24f & you made your file 1/2 the frame rate or something, but I didn't consider it would make the file size smaller. I suppose it was "ok" for web content here, but our clients would complain about the jerkyness if it was in their final product.

Have you experimented with your NLE as far as slowmo goes? You should get much smoother results, I would think... depending on what you use (NLE, plugins, etc.)

Just a thought :)
Bill

I am using FCS 2. It looks fine when it is burned to DVD and on Final Cut. I ran into 2 problems when making the video because I had the bright Idea of filming everything pre ceremony at 60i and then the ceremony at 24F. All went well untill It came time to render! I either had to bring all to 60i or take everything down to 24F. I tried the later and the 60i converted lookd like CRAP! Jerky city!

I just re watched the video saved to my desktop. I do not think it is that jerky overall especially for a smaller web version. I have seen worse I guess. I may try to re encode it at a higher frame rate but in a smaller frame size to smooth it out. Again the final product looks A LOT smoother. It is very nice in all it's HD Glory on a 30" Apple Display and looks good on my 50" HDTV.

Thanks for the response Bill.

Ryan

Erick Munari · June 2nd, 2009, 11:17 AM

Ryan,
your post was posted a long time ago, but it relates to a problem I have:
I also use the XHA1-HV20 combo (24f -24p) on FCP2. When it comes down to edit i have to convert the hv footage to 23. frames but somehow, once in multiclip realm, its a big mess of mismatched frame rates, even the xh footage turns into 29. frames a sec....Anyway, how did you solve these issues?
Thanks,
Erick.

Jim Snow · June 2nd, 2009, 01:55 PM

I appreciate that 24P is a style choice that may give you the look that you want for a wedding ceremony. I generally don't like or use 24P but I have seen some very nice productions that used it. A serious limitation imposed by 24P is that any slow motion effects that you might want to use in your highlights piece is severely limited. Invariably you get too much judder and motion blur. I'm not on an anti 24P campaign but that's something that you may want to keep in mind.

Bill Busby · June 2nd, 2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Snow

A serious limitation imposed by 24P is that any slow motion effects that you might want to use in your highlights piece is severely limited.

However, usually if using a plugin designed for this, you'll get much better, satisfying results... such as Twixtor, Boris Continuum Complete (Optical Flow filter), and several others.

Erick Munari · June 2nd, 2009, 02:29 PM

First I have to get the #%**!! edited then I can think of slo mo. How do I match them 24p/24f in multiclip?

June 4th, 2007, 09:40 PM	#2
Ken Wozniak Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Bend, IN Posts: 179	Great job, Ryan. As far as content goes, the only thing I'd be concerned about is keeping the shot of the bride getting dressed. Is that her girdle?! If so, it might not be appreciated by the bride. I like the different camera angles. You've made a two-camera shoot look like a three camera shoot. I've never been fortunate enough to have a wedding that allowed me that sort of freedom to move around. My shoots ALWAYS look like two camera shoots. The only thing that looked like it didn't fit with the rest of the video was the bridal party entrance. I'm thinking the entrance of the bridal party needs at least medium shots of the bridesmaids. The opening wide shot is great, but pulling in would be nice, especially if you could put those shots at the fades you currently have in there. But that's just my opinion. And you can't use what you didn't shoot. I usually follow one bridesmaid for a while before dissolving to the entrance of the next one. Again, great job. Especially for a first wedding edit. I wish my first wedding edit looked that good. Seriously. __________________ Woz

June 4th, 2007, 11:22 PM	#3
Oren Arieli Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 919	XH-Wedding review If you don't mind a slightly more critical analysis of the video, I've got a few suggestions. (if you do mind, then feel free to skip my post). 1. Timing: the music and images do not 'flow' together. You should time the edits to the music for a recap such as this. 2. Shot choices: I think there were at least 3 shots of the flowers, I'm assuming that the flowers didn't change much after the first shot, therefore, no need to show them again (one flower shot seemed to last fore-e-ver). At the beginning of the video, there were a few still shots (no camera motion). I think those are best suited for the still photographers...we're in the motion picture biz. I try to add some sort of movement to every frame (when nothing is moving within the frame). Be creative with your tilts/pans/zooms and rack focus. I know its not easy with the XH-A1, but your continued practice will yield many future rewards (and hopefully awards). Tape is cheap (unlike P2 cards!). A rule I learned back in the day of 'handing over the master to the client' is practice the shot twice, roll tape once. Obviously, this wont work in run-and-gun situations, but try it when possible. 3. Edit down the music. Just because the song is 4 minutes, doesn't mean you need to use it all. I'm a big fan of cutting the song down by half (its easy with most music, chop out a chorus or two and you'll have a seamless reduction of the song that few would notice). This will, in turn, allow you to toss out some of the less-than-exciting shots and keep the sizzle in yo' shizzle, get my drizzle? (I have no idea what I just said, anyone care to translate?). If the shot is boring, technically inferior, or repetive, delete it! Ahhh the joy of non-linear. 4. Nat sound: Were the vows clear? How about including a few well timed snippets of the ceremony? Bonus points if you edit the music to allow an instrumental break WITH the inclusion of vows during that portion. The footage itself is clear, clean and well done; like a seasoning on a good steak, the editing should enhance the flavor and make it better! Looking forward to seeing more of your work in the future.

June 5th, 2007, 02:52 AM	#4
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	Why is this 12fps? I was curious why the slowmo (which I thought was too much anyway) had some jerky motion to it & then looked at QT's Movie Info... it said it was 12fps which may explain that... but why? Bill

June 5th, 2007, 06:18 AM	#6
Ryan Hough Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Boston Posts: 26	Thanks guys for all the input. After you look at your own work for so long, it is great to get a better perspective of your own work. This is a work in progress and I hope to get things to where I really like them. It is funny what some people notice and what others do not. I will try to take the best from all and go with that. I was asked to video this last minute and did it all myself and just hoped for the best. I hope my next wedding goes smoother and get some better footage. I have another video from the same wedding I am working on now. I will post it when I feel it looks decent enough! The second half of the wedding went better than the first. Again, thanks for the help guys! I love this forum! Ryan

June 2nd, 2009, 11:17 AM	#9
Erick Munari Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: New York Posts: 161	Ryan, your post was posted a long time ago, but it relates to a problem I have: I also use the XHA1-HV20 combo (24f -24p) on FCP2. When it comes down to edit i have to convert the hv footage to 23. frames but somehow, once in multiclip realm, its a big mess of mismatched frame rates, even the xh footage turns into 29. frames a sec....Anyway, how did you solve these issues? Thanks, Erick.

June 2nd, 2009, 01:55 PM	#10
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	I appreciate that 24P is a style choice that may give you the look that you want for a wedding ceremony. I generally don't like or use 24P but I have seen some very nice productions that used it. A serious limitation imposed by 24P is that any slow motion effects that you might want to use in your highlights piece is severely limited. Invariably you get too much judder and motion blur. I'm not on an anti 24P campaign but that's something that you may want to keep in mind.

June 2nd, 2009, 02:29 PM	#12
Erick Munari Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: New York Posts: 161	First I have to get the #%**!! edited then I can think of slo mo. How do I match them 24p/24f in multiclip?