Please Critique at DVinfo.net

Please Critique · July 18th, 2014, 11:47 AM

...But don't be too harsh :)

Robert Benda · July 18th, 2014, 12:34 PM

Looks good. Sounds good. Felt it had too many detail shots, and not enough story, if that makes sense. You did a lot of layering, using voice over, but after a while, it felt too distant, too removed.

I expected a change up at about 1:30, but the slower pace with voice over kept going. That's probably where I thought you would shift to and stay with faces and start focusing on events and people, not things.

Alexandru Cristescu · July 18th, 2014, 02:01 PM

What type of camera did you use?

Adrian Tan · July 18th, 2014, 08:04 PM

Hey Kevin, I think that's pretty much flawless. It felt kind of like a textbook example of what a short form film should look like. It's also much better than the work I put out. I'm particularly struck by the multi-angle coverage -- thought that was amazing.

Would be quite curious to hear what you yourself like/don't like about it.

I do have something harsh to say, but it's very, very subjective... I guess, for me personally, I didn't feel moved, and I don't know why. I sort of look at it and think, wow, great compositions, beautiful images, nice slider moves, nice moments with happy, smiling people, very well put together video, very professional, but I'm not caught up in it.

Kevin Fonash · July 18th, 2014, 08:04 PM

For this wedding I used a a 6D, 60D, and a few Sony Handycams for the ceremony (PJ7xx series)

Kevin Fonash · July 18th, 2014, 08:09 PM

Robert- thanks. I know what you mean. I tend to focus heavily on detail shots. That's just my style. I think I do need to add more "life" into it.

Adrian- Thanks. It's my first "short-film" I have done, with an emphasis on time-shifting and a lot of voiceovers.
To tie in with what Robert said, I've seen other short films that keep coming back to the "live video", i.e.: the vows or speeches. For me, I like to cover that with other b-roll and only come back once or twice, max.. and for a short amount of time.

Do you have any suggestions that would allow you to get more caught up in it? Was it too long? Different music? Not enough shots of the b and g? Too much dancing? One thing I would like to add more is more nat sound stuff.. like instead of everything just covered by music, if they say something during prep or whatever.

Chris Harding · July 18th, 2014, 08:59 PM

Hi Kevin

Nice shots and the VO was a different approach and a welcome change from just music which seems to be typical of short films. Just a quick question Are you/were you a photographer? The style seems to my eyes as very biased towards the way a photog would have shot the wedding rather than a videographer. If I'm doing a stills shoot that very much the style I would use rather than the story telling style that I would use as a film maker and is typical of photographers turned "film makers" ... the many detailed shots give it away almost immediately as very few photogs that decide to shoot video grasp the basics of film making so for me the style is very photographic which tends to be a bunch of still shots and now and again a slider pan to add motion all strung together.

I honestly don't feel that a bunch of stills running together with no live audio in my opinion is a film but simply a upgraded slideshow but a lot of people do it especially shooting on DSLR's and as long as the bride loves it that's all that counts

Whether I like the style or not is not relevant here as you did a very nice job nevertheless.

Chris

Adrian Tan · July 18th, 2014, 09:07 PM

Hi Kevin, I honestly don't know. When you watch it yourself, are you affected by it?

I asked the guys on this board a similar question a few months ago, and I kind of blamed it on the content -- I thought the couple I was filming weren't demonstrative enough, and the bride barely danced. One thought from people was: you can only work with what you've got, and if the emotions on the day weren't there, it's not your fault as a videographer.

So maybe what I'm really commenting on is more the content than the craft. Your work is wonderful in itself, let alone factoring in that it's your first short form.

Another thing that sort of came across when I watched it was the calm. Seemed methodical, planned. Personally, it's very hard for me to do that on a wedding day, and that's reflected in my editing -- some dodgy shots, quick cuts to cover up other dodginess, the feeling of a gap in coverage sometimes, like forgetting to get a wide as well as a close. Your work feels controlled, and feels like you know what you want and how you'll use it in the edit.

Robert Benda · July 19th, 2014, 08:27 AM

I'm watching through it again, this time as if it were one of my own and considering how I would organize it, and here it was I would do to bring some life into it. Firstly, where are the vows/rings? We hear other people speaking for the B&G, but never the B&G.

*Group your establishing and atmosphere shots better. Lots of wonderful detail, but it often just sort of pops up and pulls us out of what should be emotional moments. Put them up front, and use them as transitions (you do that to a certain extent, with the houses and such, but showing empty chairs for the ceremony, a 2nd time, later in the video during a ceremony voice over is an example of pulling us out, not drawing us in), but stop interrupting yourself, especially to show a thing instead of a person.
*The musical change would happen much earlier, probably with another song added in, rather than change the two you use.
*Put the 1st look earlier, maybe at the musical change. This is what the voice over would be leading to.
*I wouldn't show the B&G in the same frame until the 1st look.
*Group the getting ready shots together more, probably after the 1st look.
*Bump the shots of cocktail party goes until after your ceremony ends. I'd still interlace the wedding party photo session with this
*I really like your reception work, but this is where I'd bump speeches to, probably. I saw one shot, literally, that I probably would have moved (the shot down through the balcony rails... it would be first or last for me, probably).

Reorder some shots for maximum impact. For instance, at 4:50, you show the bride, nervous groom, but them go wide (to show everyone standing). For impact, I'd start wide, then come in to show their faces with those same shots, and then stay close (which you do after that).

July 18th, 2014, 12:34 PM	#2
Robert Benda Trustee Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Crookston, MN Posts: 1,353	Re: Please Critique Looks good. Sounds good. Felt it had too many detail shots, and not enough story, if that makes sense. You did a lot of layering, using voice over, but after a while, it felt too distant, too removed. I expected a change up at about 1:30, but the slower pace with voice over kept going. That's probably where I thought you would shift to and stay with faces and start focusing on events and people, not things.

July 18th, 2014, 02:01 PM	#3
Alexandru Cristescu Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Elk Grove, CA Posts: 63	Re: Please Critique What type of camera did you use?

July 18th, 2014, 08:04 PM	#4
Adrian Tan Trustee Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,149	Re: Please Critique Hey Kevin, I think that's pretty much flawless. It felt kind of like a textbook example of what a short form film should look like. It's also much better than the work I put out. I'm particularly struck by the multi-angle coverage -- thought that was amazing. Would be quite curious to hear what you yourself like/don't like about it. I do have something harsh to say, but it's very, very subjective... I guess, for me personally, I didn't feel moved, and I don't know why. I sort of look at it and think, wow, great compositions, beautiful images, nice slider moves, nice moments with happy, smiling people, very well put together video, very professional, but I'm not caught up in it.

July 18th, 2014, 08:04 PM	#5
Kevin Fonash New Boot Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Scranton, PA Posts: 12	Re: Please Critique For this wedding I used a a 6D, 60D, and a few Sony Handycams for the ceremony (PJ7xx series)

July 18th, 2014, 08:09 PM	#6
Kevin Fonash New Boot Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Scranton, PA Posts: 12	Re: Please Critique Robert- thanks. I know what you mean. I tend to focus heavily on detail shots. That's just my style. I think I do need to add more "life" into it. Adrian- Thanks. It's my first "short-film" I have done, with an emphasis on time-shifting and a lot of voiceovers. To tie in with what Robert said, I've seen other short films that keep coming back to the "live video", i.e.: the vows or speeches. For me, I like to cover that with other b-roll and only come back once or twice, max.. and for a short amount of time. Do you have any suggestions that would allow you to get more caught up in it? Was it too long? Different music? Not enough shots of the b and g? Too much dancing? One thing I would like to add more is more nat sound stuff.. like instead of everything just covered by music, if they say something during prep or whatever.

July 18th, 2014, 08:59 PM	#7
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Please Critique Hi Kevin Nice shots and the VO was a different approach and a welcome change from just music which seems to be typical of short films. Just a quick question Are you/were you a photographer? The style seems to my eyes as very biased towards the way a photog would have shot the wedding rather than a videographer. If I'm doing a stills shoot that very much the style I would use rather than the story telling style that I would use as a film maker and is typical of photographers turned "film makers" ... the many detailed shots give it away almost immediately as very few photogs that decide to shoot video grasp the basics of film making so for me the style is very photographic which tends to be a bunch of still shots and now and again a slider pan to add motion all strung together. I honestly don't feel that a bunch of stills running together with no live audio in my opinion is a film but simply a upgraded slideshow but a lot of people do it especially shooting on DSLR's and as long as the bride loves it that's all that counts Whether I like the style or not is not relevant here as you did a very nice job nevertheless. Chris

July 18th, 2014, 09:07 PM	#8
Adrian Tan Trustee Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,149	Re: Please Critique Hi Kevin, I honestly don't know. When you watch it yourself, are you affected by it? I asked the guys on this board a similar question a few months ago, and I kind of blamed it on the content -- I thought the couple I was filming weren't demonstrative enough, and the bride barely danced. One thought from people was: you can only work with what you've got, and if the emotions on the day weren't there, it's not your fault as a videographer. So maybe what I'm really commenting on is more the content than the craft. Your work is wonderful in itself, let alone factoring in that it's your first short form. Another thing that sort of came across when I watched it was the calm. Seemed methodical, planned. Personally, it's very hard for me to do that on a wedding day, and that's reflected in my editing -- some dodgy shots, quick cuts to cover up other dodginess, the feeling of a gap in coverage sometimes, like forgetting to get a wide as well as a close. Your work feels controlled, and feels like you know what you want and how you'll use it in the edit.

July 19th, 2014, 08:27 AM	#9
Robert Benda Trustee Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Crookston, MN Posts: 1,353	Re: Please Critique I'm watching through it again, this time as if it were one of my own and considering how I would organize it, and here it was I would do to bring some life into it. Firstly, where are the vows/rings? We hear other people speaking for the B&G, but never the B&G. Group your establishing and atmosphere shots better. Lots of wonderful detail, but it often just sort of pops up and pulls us out of what should be emotional moments. Put them up front, and use them as transitions (you do that to a certain extent, with the houses and such, but showing empty chairs for the ceremony, a 2nd time, later in the video during a ceremony voice over is an example of pulling us out, not drawing us in), but stop interrupting yourself, especially to show a thing instead of a person. The musical change would happen much earlier, probably with another song added in, rather than change the two you use. Put the 1st look earlier, maybe at the musical change. This is what the voice over would be leading to. I wouldn't show the B&G in the same frame until the 1st look. Group the getting ready shots together more, probably after the 1st look. Bump the shots of cocktail party goes until after your ceremony ends. I'd still interlace the wedding party photo session with this *I really like your reception work, but this is where I'd bump speeches to, probably. I saw one shot, literally, that I probably would have moved (the shot down through the balcony rails... it would be first or last for me, probably). Reorder some shots for maximum impact. For instance, at 4:50, you show the bride, nervous groom, but them go wide (to show everyone standing). For impact, I'd start wide, then come in to show their faces with those same shots, and then stay close (which you do after that).