Shot on PENTAX (Believe it or not)

Shot on PENTAX (Believe it or not) - Caleb & Abbie · July 1st, 2011, 12:20 AM

This is a wedding video my colleague and I shot recently. It is our first one so please feel free to critique away! We welcome all feedback be it positive or negative!

Mainly shot on the Pentax K-7. Features some shots taken on a Canon 550D.

YouTube - ‪Caleb & Abbie's Wedding Highlights‬&rlm;

Stephen Packer · July 1st, 2011, 12:22 AM

PS. How do I embed the video?

Colin McDonald · July 1st, 2011, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Packer

This is a wedding video my colleague and I shot recently. It is our first one so please feel free to critique away! We welcome all feedback be it positive or negative!

First I wondered where to begin, then it became very obvious. You need to use a tripod, then get the hang of focussing the camera.

I'm sorry, but this looks like the outtakes of a wedding video to me.

Dan Choi · July 1st, 2011, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Packer

This is a wedding video my colleague and I shot recently. It is our first one so please feel free to critique away! We welcome all feedback be it positive or negative!

Mainly shot on the Pentax K-7. Features some shots taken on a Canon 550D.

YouTube - ‪Caleb & Abbie's Wedding Highlights‬&rlm;

I'll agree with the comments about some technical issues like focus control. BUT I did really enjoy the feel/style of your video. Thanks for sharing :)

Jeffrey Kauffman · July 1st, 2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Packer

PS. How do I embed the video?

Sorry I believe the video needs to be hosted with Vimeo in order to embed on this forum.

Stephen J. Williams · July 1st, 2011, 02:53 PM

I actually really liked this. Your video had lots of energy from start to finish... sure some of the shots could have been focused better and a little bit less shaky, but you'll get the hang of it. I didn't think it really took away from the edit that much. The couple is going to love this.

Steve

Noa Put · July 1st, 2011, 03:58 PM

I"m with Colin but also the rest :) It was fun watching but, like Colin said, on the technical side it was many times awful to watch, like the part where they entered the room at 02:12, the first camera was totally out of focus and the second one barely managed to capture it right, for shots like this I always go for a wide angle prime lens, you take a big risk in this way.

I found the constant searching for the right focus too distracting, as for the shaking part, it did give your video a certain energy (also supported by the way you edited it) but seeing it from my point of view, as a videographer, it gives me goosebumps but not from excitement :)

I think that doing a whole video in this hyper realistic shaky way is a way to make it feel "real" and could be a certain style but you should not overdo it, also you need to nail your focus better, like it is now it doesn't look professional to me. I think you should get a wideangle lens for those important uncontrolled shots, before you know it you"ll miss it completely next time.

There were some great shots in there though, like the close-ups you did from the couple with their names and the last shot in the film.

Stephen Packer · July 2nd, 2011, 12:47 AM

Thanks for the feedback guys! A little brutal but helpful nevertheless... (This is why we posted on forums in the hope that we would hear what other people in the industry ACTUALLY think as opposed to family and friends constantly telling us it is 'great' and 'amazing')

In regards to the shakiness and focus issues, there are a few reasons. The first is that it was essentially the style we were going for, the second is that we were rushed and had a lack of good equipment/planning on the day (being our first attempt).

Style wise I am a little sick of seeing wedding videos that feature nothing but steady slider shots and tripod mounted pans etc. I understand that this look really captures the mood and feel of many weddings and is probably what most clients would want/expect, but it grates on me personally. The couple whose wedding we shot are rather eccentric (as you could probably tell) and it seemed as if shooting in this style reflected that. I would hope that came across but its good to hear that it didn't from some of you (it gives us something to work on).

Again thank you for the critique, more is always welcomed!

(And thanks for the tip Jeff.)

David Schuurman · July 4th, 2011, 10:56 PM

I read all the comments before watching this so I expected something worse. But I actually enjoyed watching it. I loved the raw handheld style and the video held my interest until the end.

I do have some critiques though for next time.

"Handheld style" is different from "the way my video looks because it was handheld". what I mean by that is it's very easy to tell if someone is using a lightweight consumer/prosumer camera or a full handheld cinema rig...the organic movement is different. this video had minute shaking throughout the video, jitters, and general shakiness, all part of shooting with the camera in your hand, rather than a handheld style. The way to properly accomplish the handheld style is with a shoulder rig, that will let your moves float better without all the ugliness associated with consumer handheld shooting. So perhaps if you want to continue in this style you should invest in a shoulder rig because it REALLY helps.

I was uncomfortable during the shots of the couple staring at the camera for that length of time. In general no viewer wants to feel like they're being stared at or talked at while they're watching something, this is why in documentary, and television interviews the interviewee is talking to an off-screen person rather than staring into the camera. For shots like that I would have cut it in half so you get the idea without feeling like you're being watched.

for the type of video you want to produce you're better off getting a wider lens so you can really capture the whole moment. during their entrance I wouldve much preferred to see a wide shot of them entering with the crowds reaction going on in the shot as well.

Last point is that when doing this type of organic/raw/documentary style you should pay close attention to audio. To make it real it must have audio. I can only imagine how good this video could be if you could hear the things happen in the shots. instead of just shooting them get photos done, shoot the groom talking (to you not to the camera) while the bride is getting photographed or something like that. When I shoot I try to pepper in sound bytes that I get simply by rolling the camera while I mention to the groom "todays a scorcher eh?" or "so far so good right? you guys look like you're having a blast!" or just any statement or open ended question you can conversationally ask people, even with laughter, get that audio because it'll drastically improve your product.

I think thats about it so good luck on the next one and keep it up, with practice you can produce some really special films that pro videographers will like just as much as the couple do.

your video reminded me of this tiffanys commercial that utilizes the handheld technique "on a wedding" quite nicely along with more composed traditional shots.

YouTube - ‪True Love Grows‬&rlm;

Stephen Packer · July 5th, 2011, 03:05 AM

Thanks for the advice David. It's this sort of in-depth critique that I am sure will drastically improve the quality of our future productions.

In regards to the handheld style comments, most of the shots (especially the ones taken in the ceremony) were taken using either a mono pod resting on my upper thigh and strapped around my neck or using a shoulder mount. We tried as much as we could to ensure all other shots were taken on these pieces of equipment but unfortunately the run and gun shooting required on the day wouldn't let us get them all. Good work picking those jitters it's definitely something we need to focus on more (either while shooting or in post).

When you mentioned the shots of the Bride and Groom looking at the camera, just so I can be clear, you thought that idea worked but we just held it too long in the edit? Those were a few of my favorite shots and I was admittedly a little precious about them when I was editing but it's nice to know whether or not other wedding videographers think they fit in as well as I do :)

Also the audio advice is something that we have heard said about this video before. Obviously that is something we need to incorporate more as it is most probably expected...

Again thanks so much.

David Schuurman · July 5th, 2011, 05:43 PM

Yes, I thought it worked nicely, but it's a shot that should not last that long, I'd have halved or quartered the length.

Greg Fiske · July 12th, 2011, 11:42 PM

David. great feedback, even for those of us learning from other peoples work, thanks! Love the tiffany co's clip, interesting to see what a company thinks ideal footage looks like.

Stephen, echoing what the others mentioned. My method for toning down the jittering is to use software in post. You don't shoot super tight during the day, and drop your footage to 720 and use software like prodad. This also lets you creatively crop. Think of it as professional in camera stabilization, just at a different point in the workflow ;-)

July 1st, 2011, 12:22 AM	#2
Stephen Packer Tourist Join Date: May 2011 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 4	Re: Shot on PENTAX (Believe it or not) - Caleb & Abbie PS. How do I embed the video?

July 1st, 2011, 02:53 PM	#6
Stephen J. Williams Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 768	Re: Shot on PENTAX (Believe it or not) - Caleb & Abbie I actually really liked this. Your video had lots of energy from start to finish... sure some of the shots could have been focused better and a little bit less shaky, but you'll get the hang of it. I didn't think it really took away from the edit that much. The couple is going to love this. Steve

July 1st, 2011, 03:58 PM	#7
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Shot on PENTAX (Believe it or not) - Caleb & Abbie I"m with Colin but also the rest :) It was fun watching but, like Colin said, on the technical side it was many times awful to watch, like the part where they entered the room at 02:12, the first camera was totally out of focus and the second one barely managed to capture it right, for shots like this I always go for a wide angle prime lens, you take a big risk in this way. I found the constant searching for the right focus too distracting, as for the shaking part, it did give your video a certain energy (also supported by the way you edited it) but seeing it from my point of view, as a videographer, it gives me goosebumps but not from excitement :) I think that doing a whole video in this hyper realistic shaky way is a way to make it feel "real" and could be a certain style but you should not overdo it, also you need to nail your focus better, like it is now it doesn't look professional to me. I think you should get a wideangle lens for those important uncontrolled shots, before you know it you"ll miss it completely next time. There were some great shots in there though, like the close-ups you did from the couple with their names and the last shot in the film.

July 2nd, 2011, 12:47 AM	#8
Stephen Packer Tourist Join Date: May 2011 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 4	Re: Shot on PENTAX (Believe it or not) - Caleb & Abbie Thanks for the feedback guys! A little brutal but helpful nevertheless... (This is why we posted on forums in the hope that we would hear what other people in the industry ACTUALLY think as opposed to family and friends constantly telling us it is 'great' and 'amazing') In regards to the shakiness and focus issues, there are a few reasons. The first is that it was essentially the style we were going for, the second is that we were rushed and had a lack of good equipment/planning on the day (being our first attempt). Style wise I am a little sick of seeing wedding videos that feature nothing but steady slider shots and tripod mounted pans etc. I understand that this look really captures the mood and feel of many weddings and is probably what most clients would want/expect, but it grates on me personally. The couple whose wedding we shot are rather eccentric (as you could probably tell) and it seemed as if shooting in this style reflected that. I would hope that came across but its good to hear that it didn't from some of you (it gives us something to work on). Again thank you for the critique, more is always welcomed! (And thanks for the tip Jeff.)

July 4th, 2011, 10:56 PM	#9
David Schuurman Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Hamilton, ON Canada Posts: 369	Re: Shot on PENTAX (Believe it or not) - Caleb & Abbie I read all the comments before watching this so I expected something worse. But I actually enjoyed watching it. I loved the raw handheld style and the video held my interest until the end. I do have some critiques though for next time. "Handheld style" is different from "the way my video looks because it was handheld". what I mean by that is it's very easy to tell if someone is using a lightweight consumer/prosumer camera or a full handheld cinema rig...the organic movement is different. this video had minute shaking throughout the video, jitters, and general shakiness, all part of shooting with the camera in your hand, rather than a handheld style. The way to properly accomplish the handheld style is with a shoulder rig, that will let your moves float better without all the ugliness associated with consumer handheld shooting. So perhaps if you want to continue in this style you should invest in a shoulder rig because it REALLY helps. I was uncomfortable during the shots of the couple staring at the camera for that length of time. In general no viewer wants to feel like they're being stared at or talked at while they're watching something, this is why in documentary, and television interviews the interviewee is talking to an off-screen person rather than staring into the camera. For shots like that I would have cut it in half so you get the idea without feeling like you're being watched. for the type of video you want to produce you're better off getting a wider lens so you can really capture the whole moment. during their entrance I wouldve much preferred to see a wide shot of them entering with the crowds reaction going on in the shot as well. Last point is that when doing this type of organic/raw/documentary style you should pay close attention to audio. To make it real it must have audio. I can only imagine how good this video could be if you could hear the things happen in the shots. instead of just shooting them get photos done, shoot the groom talking (to you not to the camera) while the bride is getting photographed or something like that. When I shoot I try to pepper in sound bytes that I get simply by rolling the camera while I mention to the groom "todays a scorcher eh?" or "so far so good right? you guys look like you're having a blast!" or just any statement or open ended question you can conversationally ask people, even with laughter, get that audio because it'll drastically improve your product. I think thats about it so good luck on the next one and keep it up, with practice you can produce some really special films that pro videographers will like just as much as the couple do. your video reminded me of this tiffanys commercial that utilizes the handheld technique "on a wedding" quite nicely along with more composed traditional shots. YouTube - ‪True Love Grows‬&rlm; __________________ http://www.davidschuurman.com http://www.dsweddingcinema.com

July 5th, 2011, 03:05 AM	#10
Stephen Packer Tourist Join Date: May 2011 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 4	Re: Shot on PENTAX (Believe it or not) - Caleb & Abbie Thanks for the advice David. It's this sort of in-depth critique that I am sure will drastically improve the quality of our future productions. In regards to the handheld style comments, most of the shots (especially the ones taken in the ceremony) were taken using either a mono pod resting on my upper thigh and strapped around my neck or using a shoulder mount. We tried as much as we could to ensure all other shots were taken on these pieces of equipment but unfortunately the run and gun shooting required on the day wouldn't let us get them all. Good work picking those jitters it's definitely something we need to focus on more (either while shooting or in post). When you mentioned the shots of the Bride and Groom looking at the camera, just so I can be clear, you thought that idea worked but we just held it too long in the edit? Those were a few of my favorite shots and I was admittedly a little precious about them when I was editing but it's nice to know whether or not other wedding videographers think they fit in as well as I do :) Also the audio advice is something that we have heard said about this video before. Obviously that is something we need to incorporate more as it is most probably expected... Again thanks so much.

July 5th, 2011, 05:43 PM	#11
David Schuurman Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Hamilton, ON Canada Posts: 369	Re: Shot on PENTAX (Believe it or not) - Caleb & Abbie Yes, I thought it worked nicely, but it's a shot that should not last that long, I'd have halved or quartered the length. __________________ http://www.davidschuurman.com http://www.dsweddingcinema.com

July 12th, 2011, 11:42 PM	#12
Greg Fiske Major Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Santa Ana, CA Posts: 499	Re: Shot on PENTAX (Believe it or not) - Caleb & Abbie David. great feedback, even for those of us learning from other peoples work, thanks! Love the tiffany co's clip, interesting to see what a company thinks ideal footage looks like. Stephen, echoing what the others mentioned. My method for toning down the jittering is to use software in post. You don't shoot super tight during the day, and drop your footage to 720 and use software like prodad. This also lets you creatively crop. Think of it as professional in camera stabilization, just at a different point in the workflow ;-)