New NAB monitors?

Boyd Ostroff · April 20th, 2007, 06:44 AM

Well now I'm confused (which is nothing new ;-)

See the attached scan of the Varizoom brochure which I picked up at NAB. I assume it's the latest brochure because it has a 5% discount coupon printed on the inside cover, valid April 23-30, 2007. There are two SWIT monitors on this page with different resolutions, although both only have 234 vertical lines.

I think the monitor in my photo is the one at the bottom of this page, based on the label on the top left of the screen "HIGH RESOLUTION TFT-CLD COLOR MONITOR." The monitor on the top of the page says "HIGH DEFINITION TFT-LCD SCREEN". The specs in the brochure say 1440x234, which would work out to 480x234 when you divide by 3 for the RGB pixels.

But on their website they show this same screen, with the same model number (S-1080B) but list the resolution as 800x480: http://www.varizoom.com/products/mon...BC_BJ_BSM.html

Obviously one of these is wrong, or else there is more than one flavor of S-1080B.

Todd Giglio · April 20th, 2007, 08:06 AM

Cory,

Once I get my M2 back (I sent it in for repair due to my clumsiness), I plan on taking pictuers of my rig and posting on the redrock site (here too if anyone is interested), so you can see the ERG monitor.

I know the price was high, but it beats the heck out of having a bunch of 'just off focus' footage. If you can trust your camera's LCD for focus, and just need a monitor for framing, then any of the cheaper LCD's (including ones meant for car installation) would work fine. If you need the monitor for color calibration or focus, then the bucks go up. I was in the same boat as you, and did hours of 'searching' the web for info. Good luck.

Todd

Cory Sheldon · April 20th, 2007, 10:37 AM

It'd be great to see your set up Todd. Although I'd agree that a monitor like that would be fantastic, spending $2500 may not be doable for me right now. I really only need it for focusing. Framing and color I think I can get close enough with the camera's lcd (although framing would be a lot easier with a 'flipped' monitor because of the M2).

For $2500 I could get a modbook (macbook tablet converted) and have a HD widscreen monitor with direct disk recording with scopebox. If only i could flip the screen on a macbook myself, I could pull that all off for $1k. That's probably just crazy talk though ;)

Tony Tibbetts · April 20th, 2007, 03:47 PM

Hmmm... maybe Varizoom is changing the LCD's in their SWIT series. I have had no problems with the monitor myself. My only complaint is that it seems to drain the battery packs even if the monitor is on or not.

Rob DuBree · May 15th, 2007, 06:34 PM

Hello everyone... I know it's been some time since I last chimed in, and I apologize for that. However, I was instructed to lay off the User's Groups for a while. Unfortunately I am receiving so many e-mails from everyone out there that I felt the need to post in order give a little insight into what is going on in the HD LCD realm.

The IKAN as well as the SWIT are "Made in Taiwan" monitors straight from the assembly lines in China. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as there are plenty of solid units like these being used in cars and kiosks all over Asia. The reason they are so cheap is because they use "low-budget" Video Scalers. A lot of people are under the misconception that it is the panel or the programming (no effect on image quality) that has the most to do with the image you see on the monitor. The panel is important, but more important is the type of processing chip you are using to scale the video. I can pretty much guarantee that every single monitor that people are discussing on these boards is using a different panel and video scaler chip set. Don't let yourself get caught up in all of the technical jargon, for example...

I had a customer walk up to me at NAB and ask me if she should buy an IKAN unit. I told her that she would have to be extremely careful with the connectors on the back of the unit, because (like the SWIT monitor) they are soldered directly to the circuitry board. A BNC is a push and twist (to lock) connection, if you apply too much torque when you connect it you can snap one of those connectors off, and crack the board in the process. If you happen to crack the board the unit will probably have to be sent back overseas for repair... And it will probably not be covered under your warranty because it would be operator error. As long as your going to use this monitor in studio conditions, and no one else will be connecting the unit other than you (NO PA's), then if your happy with the picture... BUY IT!!!

It's all about finding the best tools to do the job right at the best price!

Now having said that... NEBTEK is in the unique position of being a company that designs products for it's own technicians to use first before offering them up to the LCD sales division. We have been modifying the Marshall V-R70P series since we bought one (to use with our Z1U) in June of 2006. We thought it had a great picture for the price, was solidly built (the BNC connections are anchored to the chassis) and had a solid feature set. I have had problems focusing in low light conditions (especially with my principles dressed in dark colors against a dark background), but under solid lighting conditions it worked great indoors and out (you'll need to put a Hood on it outside). The only thing I did not like about the unit was the IDX battery mount. We easily solved this by mounting one of our Sony Lithium-ion battery adapters to the back. Once people saw the Marshall LCD on set, and realized we could modify it with either our Sony, Canon, Panasonic or JVC Li-Battery adapters, I started selling the Marshall modified units like crazy... I continue to do so to this day.

The only reason we decided to build our own HD from the ground up was because there were so many customers coming to us saying that they needed this feature (critical focus assist) or that feature (underscan) or the other feature (image flip). There was a real need in the market for a monitor that would address all of these concerns. Well we listened to what everyone had to say and built an HD monitor with the features people asked us for, and the features that we need in the professional film and video field (anamorphic). The reason our monitor was delayed was because no one at NAB 2007 liked the membrane pad controls. It was a great idea in theory (better image adjustment, less likely to break down, better response time) unfortunately it was simply not a "field friendly" interface. We are currently redesigning the unit with buttons and knobs, and it will be ready by July. As long as we continue to work in the field (and customer's call with their feedback), we will continue to build the products that fit everyone's needs.

Will we stop selling Marshall monitors when we release ours?
ABSOLUTELY NOT... it's a solid product for someone that doesn't need all the features our unit has.

Will we recommend any one unit over the other?
No one can judge what you need better than you. If the price was not more important than having the best picture available than everyone would be buying ASTRO monitors at $5k a pop.

Are the Marshall & NEBTEK monitors sharper than the Ikan?
Absolutely, but at a higher price tag.

Will the NEBTEK HAVE more features than the Marshall?
Absolutely, but at a higher price tag.

Will the new Panasonic have more features than the NEBTEK?
Absolutely, but at a higher price tag.

There's the pattern folks... You have to decide what features you want and what those features are worth to you.

I hope this helps,
Rob DuBree
NEBTEK

P.S. The video scaler in our board is powering a 50" LCD in our technicians office as we speak, and the picture is incredible.

Floris van Eck · May 30th, 2007, 03:50 PM

So your product will be available in July?

Rob DuBree · May 30th, 2007, 04:04 PM

Hello Floris,

We are planning on having the new Prototype with the buttons and knobs (no membrane pad) at Cinegear in June, and being in full production by the end of July.

All the Best,
Rob

Boyd Ostroff · May 30th, 2007, 04:54 PM

Thanks for an excellent post Rob! Will look forward to seeing the new monitor.

Dean Sensui · June 1st, 2007, 05:12 AM

Rob...

I've had a NEB64H LCD Monitor mounted on a Glidecam V16 for quite sometime now and it's performed nicely, even in bright daylight. A little cardboard and duct tape helps deal with the occasional shot in full sunlight.

Nice to know that a lot of thought goes into the product. If what I'm working with now is any indication of what you're currently working on, I'd be interested in it somewhere down the line.

Lonnie Bell · June 15th, 2007, 06:34 AM

Rob Dubree,
What's the guesstimate on pricing of the Nebtek's HD monitor, and are you still planning to have a prototype at Cinegear, and will we be able to compare it to your customized Marshalls?

Thanks,
Lonnie

Cary Lee · June 15th, 2007, 11:07 AM

Heard the price to be around 1700.00.

Ross Grasse · July 5th, 2007, 01:13 PM

Hi guys,
Just wanted to chime in and open the door for any questions you might have about the ikan V8000HD on-camera hi-def monitor. Just to clear things up: Our new monitor is not straight off the assembly lines in Taiwan... they actually come off our own assembly lines in China. We design them here in the US and have our guys manufacture them in Asia. So... we are an American company based in Houston with overseas manufacturing connections. In regards to our BNC connectors. I's true that they are soldered directly on the circuit board but it's a very strong connection and the bnc connectors are covered by our warranty. So far we have had no trouble with our connectors.... however, if they do break you can send your monitor to ikan right here in Texas and we will repair it for you. No ikan monitors are ever sent overseas for warranty work. As far as our panels... we use (just like most of the competition) an 800 x 480 panel and scale to 720p/180i. The focusing capability of the V8000HD has been favorably compared to several other on-camera hi-def monitors that are almost twice the cost. Again if you have any questions regarding the monitor, please ask.
Ross Grasse, iKan corp

Taj Jackson · July 10th, 2007, 02:01 AM

I have a quick question for you Ross. Where can I find the Ikan V-8000HD? I am located in LA and everywhere I look seems to be out of stock. :-)
Thanks in advance
Taj

Simone Maurice · July 13th, 2007, 07:16 PM

Hey Taj,

You can order it from DV Creators: http://dvcreators.net/ikan-8inch-lcd/ It shouldn't take long to arrive by mail!

Taj Jackson · July 14th, 2007, 12:46 AM

Thanks Simone

April 20th, 2007, 06:44 AM	#16
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Well now I'm confused (which is nothing new ;-) See the attached scan of the Varizoom brochure which I picked up at NAB. I assume it's the latest brochure because it has a 5% discount coupon printed on the inside cover, valid April 23-30, 2007. There are two SWIT monitors on this page with different resolutions, although both only have 234 vertical lines. I think the monitor in my photo is the one at the bottom of this page, based on the label on the top left of the screen "HIGH RESOLUTION TFT-CLD COLOR MONITOR." The monitor on the top of the page says "HIGH DEFINITION TFT-LCD SCREEN". The specs in the brochure say 1440x234, which would work out to 480x234 when you divide by 3 for the RGB pixels. But on their website they show this same screen, with the same model number (S-1080B) but list the resolution as 800x480: http://www.varizoom.com/products/mon...BC_BJ_BSM.html Obviously one of these is wrong, or else there is more than one flavor of S-1080B. Attached Thumbnails

May 15th, 2007, 06:34 PM	#20
Rob DuBree NEBTEK Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 54	Hello everyone... I know it's been some time since I last chimed in, and I apologize for that. However, I was instructed to lay off the User's Groups for a while. Unfortunately I am receiving so many e-mails from everyone out there that I felt the need to post in order give a little insight into what is going on in the HD LCD realm. The IKAN as well as the SWIT are "Made in Taiwan" monitors straight from the assembly lines in China. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as there are plenty of solid units like these being used in cars and kiosks all over Asia. The reason they are so cheap is because they use "low-budget" Video Scalers. A lot of people are under the misconception that it is the panel or the programming (no effect on image quality) that has the most to do with the image you see on the monitor. The panel is important, but more important is the type of processing chip you are using to scale the video. I can pretty much guarantee that every single monitor that people are discussing on these boards is using a different panel and video scaler chip set. Don't let yourself get caught up in all of the technical jargon, for example... I had a customer walk up to me at NAB and ask me if she should buy an IKAN unit. I told her that she would have to be extremely careful with the connectors on the back of the unit, because (like the SWIT monitor) they are soldered directly to the circuitry board. A BNC is a push and twist (to lock) connection, if you apply too much torque when you connect it you can snap one of those connectors off, and crack the board in the process. If you happen to crack the board the unit will probably have to be sent back overseas for repair... And it will probably not be covered under your warranty because it would be operator error. As long as your going to use this monitor in studio conditions, and no one else will be connecting the unit other than you (NO PA's), then if your happy with the picture... BUY IT!!! It's all about finding the best tools to do the job right at the best price! Now having said that... NEBTEK is in the unique position of being a company that designs products for it's own technicians to use first before offering them up to the LCD sales division. We have been modifying the Marshall V-R70P series since we bought one (to use with our Z1U) in June of 2006. We thought it had a great picture for the price, was solidly built (the BNC connections are anchored to the chassis) and had a solid feature set. I have had problems focusing in low light conditions (especially with my principles dressed in dark colors against a dark background), but under solid lighting conditions it worked great indoors and out (you'll need to put a Hood on it outside). The only thing I did not like about the unit was the IDX battery mount. We easily solved this by mounting one of our Sony Lithium-ion battery adapters to the back. Once people saw the Marshall LCD on set, and realized we could modify it with either our Sony, Canon, Panasonic or JVC Li-Battery adapters, I started selling the Marshall modified units like crazy... I continue to do so to this day. The only reason we decided to build our own HD from the ground up was because there were so many customers coming to us saying that they needed this feature (critical focus assist) or that feature (underscan) or the other feature (image flip). There was a real need in the market for a monitor that would address all of these concerns. Well we listened to what everyone had to say and built an HD monitor with the features people asked us for, and the features that we need in the professional film and video field (anamorphic). The reason our monitor was delayed was because no one at NAB 2007 liked the membrane pad controls. It was a great idea in theory (better image adjustment, less likely to break down, better response time) unfortunately it was simply not a "field friendly" interface. We are currently redesigning the unit with buttons and knobs, and it will be ready by July. As long as we continue to work in the field (and customer's call with their feedback), we will continue to build the products that fit everyone's needs. Will we stop selling Marshall monitors when we release ours? ABSOLUTELY NOT... it's a solid product for someone that doesn't need all the features our unit has. Will we recommend any one unit over the other? No one can judge what you need better than you. If the price was not more important than having the best picture available than everyone would be buying ASTRO monitors at $5k a pop. Are the Marshall & NEBTEK monitors sharper than the Ikan? Absolutely, but at a higher price tag. Will the NEBTEK HAVE more features than the Marshall? Absolutely, but at a higher price tag. Will the new Panasonic have more features than the NEBTEK? Absolutely, but at a higher price tag. There's the pattern folks... You have to decide what features you want and what those features are worth to you. I hope this helps, Rob DuBree NEBTEK P.S. The video scaler in our board is powering a 50" LCD in our technicians office as we speak, and the picture is incredible. __________________ Robz Last edited by Rob DuBree; May 16th, 2007 at 01:53 PM.

May 30th, 2007, 04:04 PM	#22
Rob DuBree NEBTEK Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 54	Hello Floris, We are planning on having the new Prototype with the buttons and knobs (no membrane pad) at Cinegear in June, and being in full production by the end of July. All the Best, Rob __________________ Robz

June 1st, 2007, 05:12 AM	#24
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Rob... I've had a NEB64H LCD Monitor mounted on a Glidecam V16 for quite sometime now and it's performed nicely, even in bright daylight. A little cardboard and duct tape helps deal with the occasional shot in full sunlight. Nice to know that a lot of thought goes into the product. If what I'm working with now is any indication of what you're currently working on, I'd be interested in it somewhere down the line. __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

June 15th, 2007, 06:34 AM	#25
Lonnie Bell Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV United States Posts: 361	Rob Dubree, What's the guesstimate on pricing of the Nebtek's HD monitor, and are you still planning to have a prototype at Cinegear, and will we be able to compare it to your customized Marshalls? Thanks, Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Bell mamas boy productions Las Vegas, NV

April 20th, 2007, 08:06 AM	#17
Todd Giglio Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 265	Cory, Once I get my M2 back (I sent it in for repair due to my clumsiness), I plan on taking pictuers of my rig and posting on the redrock site (here too if anyone is interested), so you can see the ERG monitor. I know the price was high, but it beats the heck out of having a bunch of 'just off focus' footage. If you can trust your camera's LCD for focus, and just need a monitor for framing, then any of the cheaper LCD's (including ones meant for car installation) would work fine. If you need the monitor for color calibration or focus, then the bucks go up. I was in the same boat as you, and did hours of 'searching' the web for info. Good luck. Todd

April 20th, 2007, 10:37 AM	#18
Cory Sheldon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 33	It'd be great to see your set up Todd. Although I'd agree that a monitor like that would be fantastic, spending $2500 may not be doable for me right now. I really only need it for focusing. Framing and color I think I can get close enough with the camera's lcd (although framing would be a lot easier with a 'flipped' monitor because of the M2). For $2500 I could get a modbook (macbook tablet converted) and have a HD widscreen monitor with direct disk recording with scopebox. If only i could flip the screen on a macbook myself, I could pull that all off for $1k. That's probably just crazy talk though ;)

April 20th, 2007, 03:47 PM	#19
Tony Tibbetts Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 385	Hmmm... maybe Varizoom is changing the LCD's in their SWIT series. I have had no problems with the monitor myself. My only complaint is that it seems to drain the battery packs even if the monitor is on or not.

May 30th, 2007, 03:50 PM	#21
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	So your product will be available in July?

May 30th, 2007, 04:54 PM	#23
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Thanks for an excellent post Rob! Will look forward to seeing the new monitor.

June 15th, 2007, 11:07 AM	#26
Cary Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood USA Posts: 128	Heard the price to be around 1700.00. __________________ Canon XHA1, SGpro,Flip,FF, RR Mattebox, Nebtek V-R70p-HDA with Canon, Nikkor Primes 24mm f2.8, 28mm f2.8, 35mm f2.0, 50mm f1.4, 85mm f1.4, 105mm f1.8, 135mm f2.0, and 300mm f4.0.

July 5th, 2007, 01:13 PM	#27
Ross Grasse Tourist Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kingwood Texas Posts: 1	Ross from ikan... Hi guys, Just wanted to chime in and open the door for any questions you might have about the ikan V8000HD on-camera hi-def monitor. Just to clear things up: Our new monitor is not straight off the assembly lines in Taiwan... they actually come off our own assembly lines in China. We design them here in the US and have our guys manufacture them in Asia. So... we are an American company based in Houston with overseas manufacturing connections. In regards to our BNC connectors. I's true that they are soldered directly on the circuit board but it's a very strong connection and the bnc connectors are covered by our warranty. So far we have had no trouble with our connectors.... however, if they do break you can send your monitor to ikan right here in Texas and we will repair it for you. No ikan monitors are ever sent overseas for warranty work. As far as our panels... we use (just like most of the competition) an 800 x 480 panel and scale to 720p/180i. The focusing capability of the V8000HD has been favorably compared to several other on-camera hi-def monitors that are almost twice the cost. Again if you have any questions regarding the monitor, please ask. Ross Grasse, iKan corp

July 10th, 2007, 02:01 AM	#28
Taj Jackson Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: United States Posts: 46	I have a quick question for you Ross. Where can I find the Ikan V-8000HD? I am located in LA and everywhere I look seems to be out of stock. :-) Thanks in advance Taj

July 13th, 2007, 07:16 PM	#29
Simone Maurice New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 15	Hey Taj, You can order it from DV Creators: http://dvcreators.net/ikan-8inch-lcd/ It shouldn't take long to arrive by mail!

July 14th, 2007, 12:46 AM	#30
Taj Jackson Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: United States Posts: 46	Thanks Simone