is Apple 23" the best solution??? at DVinfo.net

Victor Burdiladze · January 26th, 2007, 12:00 AM

Guy's I'm bit concerned. (I thought I knew quite a few things about monitors, but that may not be the case.)
Here is the thing, I need to upgrade my old CRT 17" monitor which is not big enough for my new requirements.
I was originally thinking to buy Apple 23" cinema monitor, but now I'm hearing lot of good things about less expensive Dell displays as well as Acer and other less expensive brands.
Any suggestions???
Thanks
Vic

Marc Jayson · January 27th, 2007, 07:44 AM

I had a 24" Dell (2407) but I returned it because of the banding problem. It's really annoying to when you work with gradients.
I'm now waiting for the 27" monitors like the Samsung or the new NEC.

Greg Hartzell · January 27th, 2007, 10:45 AM

Hey Victor,

I wouldn't get an apple monitor if I were you. While they are nice and the firewire ports on the back are handy, I think digital monitors from samsung or viewsonic are much better performers for less money.

I edited on a cinima display for a couple months and wasn't that impressed (though some of this could be attributed to the video card). My brother has a 24" Samsung that absolutely blows the apple display away.

Victor Burdiladze · January 27th, 2007, 11:39 AM

Thanks guys,
I'm considering Samsung seriously now, although the fact that there are very few places I can actually go and check their monitors is bit frustrating (as oppose to Apple, that has stores in every other mall on Long Island.) I checked some expensive Sony monitors, for instance, and was disappointed with their performance.
I should visit B&H anyway so I’ll check some Samsungs over there.
Vic

Benjamin Hill · January 28th, 2007, 09:52 AM

Victor, I completely disagree with Greg about the 23" Apple monitors; I haven't used any other monitor that was as bright or sharp, and they are calibrated extremely well out of the box. As a working video professional it gives me a very reliable, faithful representation of the signal. They may cost a little more, but I haven't had any issues with it whatsoever and that kind of performance in a video tool is worth the extra money.

Fergus Anderson · January 28th, 2007, 10:12 AM

I use a CRT - Sony FW900 24 inch widescreen and I havent seen it bettered yet. I must admit I like the look of the 30 inch Dell though!

Victor Burdiladze · January 28th, 2007, 10:43 PM

Benjamin,
I may still go with Apple. Every single Apple product that I'm using has been nothing but great, after all (computer, Ipod and others). Besides, I know, my FCP projects will look great on 23" cinema display. I have not seen too many other bands in action (I mean LCD-s) and the ones I've seen were very disappointing, but I got to do little more research just to be sure...
Fergus,
I agree that CRT-s are the best when it comes to focus, color accuracy or image in general, no doubt, but I may not have enough money for Sony broadcast monitor. And, as I said, Sony LCD monitors, at least the ones in the same price range as Apple, have disappointed me over all.
Thanks for replying
Vic

Michael Y Wong · January 28th, 2007, 11:32 PM

If you don't mind buying used, id say dell 2405 rev 3 is the best bang for buck performance. Native 1080p WUXGA, with good colour/viewing angle/response time. It is light years better then its successor the 2407.

If things havent change since I last kept up with monitors all 24 inch lcd panels are made by samsung, whether its dell, samsung, acer etc etc... and it is easy to tell which panel it is via google.

Lindsay Bruce · January 31st, 2007, 06:34 PM

I used to review monitors (amongst other things) for a UK computer mag. I now run a network of PCs with a few Macs for DTP work.

I haven't seen yet anything to touch the Apple displays. Although they use the same panels as some Dell products, the firmware and driver software is most definitely proprietary to Apple - this makes a big difference to the colour accuracy of the screen. Up next to a couple of Dell displays, the 23" cinema display is far and away the winner. Just try comparing viewing angles - if you move your head, the colours on the Dell appear to change, but not so on the Apple.

I'm fortunate enough to be typing this on a 30" Apple display, and I can tell you that I won't ever go back! I'm not saying they are the best value for money - they certainly are expensive - but in my experience Apple are the best.

Whatever monitor you buy, make sure you drive it with the best graphics card you can afford.

Gints Klimanis · January 31st, 2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lindsay Bruce

I haven't seen yet anything to touch the Apple displays.

Whatever monitor you buy, make sure you drive it with the best graphics card you can afford.

So, what other monitors have you seen ? Have you seen NECs 2070NX or even 2090 or 2190, which are generally rated far above the Apple monitor for color accuracy. I boughtNEC 2190UXi and think it looks a lot better than the Apple 23". How about NECs 2080 with LED-backlighting ? Many reviews rate these monitors with S-IPS panels high in color accuracy/spatial uniformity and not so high in pixel response time.

Also, why do you need the best graphics card if you're connecting to an LCD display with a DVI connection ? Unless you're a gamer, I think you're better off saving money on electricity by buying a basic graphics card that doesn't need a huge on-board fan to cool it. Save the money and buy a monitor calibration kit and some decent lights (Solux or full spectrum fluorescents) for your office that approach the color temperature of your monitor.

Sam Jankis · January 31st, 2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lindsay Bruce

I used to review monitors (amongst other things) for a UK computer mag. I now run a network of PCs with a few Macs for DTP work.

I haven't seen yet anything to touch the Apple displays. Although they use the same panels as some Dell products, the firmware and driver software is most definitely proprietary to Apple - this makes a big difference to the colour accuracy of the screen. Up next to a couple of Dell displays, the 23" cinema display is far and away the winner. Just try comparing viewing angles - if you move your head, the colours on the Dell appear to change, but not so on the Apple.

I'm fortunate enough to be typing this on a 30" Apple display, and I can tell you that I won't ever go back! I'm not saying they are the best value for money - they certainly are expensive - but in my experience Apple are the best.

Whatever monitor you buy, make sure you drive it with the best graphics card you can afford.

I just can't leave this be...

I'll never buy an Apple monitor again.
For a year, I loved it. Then I noticed the color at the edges was changing... then a few dead pixels. I tried taking it back... sorry, it's over a year old... thanks for your $2k, it's going to cost $700 to fix it and it might cost more.

Apple, I love your OS, but your hardware is overpriced crap.

I bought the new Dell 2407 for $650.

Boyd Ostroff · January 31st, 2007, 08:05 PM

I don't have nearly enough experience to comment on what is "best" but I can say that my Apple 23" Cinema Display has performed flawlessly for over 2 years and it looks great. I have a 21" Gateway sitting next to it, and it was a good value considering the low cost, but the image is nowhere near the quality of the Apple.

Sam, I'm sorry to hear about your problems but my personal experience from owning and using dozens of Apple products ever since the Apple ][ is completely the opposite. The only chronic problem I've had was a logic board on a Powerbook G4 which required 3 replacements. Fortunately I purchased AppleCare so everything was covered.

My only experience with the Dell monitors was at the "Texas HD Shootout" last year where several were used with component cables connected to various cameras. Compared to the Panasonic professional HD LCD screens they looked considerably worse. But considering the price difference I guess that shouldn't be much of a surprise :-)

Gints Klimanis · January 31st, 2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

Compared to the Panasonic professional HD LCD screens they looked considerably worse. But considering the price difference I guess that shouldn't be much of a surprise :-)

It's very difficult to even see the higher end LCD monitors before buying them. I live in the San Francisco Bay area, and the big electronics stores here never have the good LCDs on the shelves. If someone knows of a place where I can see the NEC 2080 LED-lighted LCD display outside of a medical office, let me know.

In my research, it appears that one must pay 2-3x the price of a budget LCD to get a color-accurate monitor of the same screen area and pixel pitch.

For LCD screens, there seems to be a screen area and fake response time war. I guess you have to sell the item with some quantifiable number, and color accuracy isn't it.

Lindsay Bruce · February 1st, 2007, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gints Klimanis

So, what other monitors have you seen ? Have you seen NECs 2070NX or even 2090 or 2190, which are generally rated far above the Apple monitor for color accuracy.

Also, why do you need the best graphics card if you're connecting to an LCD display with a DVI connection ?

If you have different experience, I bow to your superior knowledge :-)

For why you need to get yourself a decent graphics card, see this link http://www.videoguys.com/DIY-GPU.html

HD puts a significant amount of data on screen, and if you intend to overlay any real-time effects (even just titles) a fast graphics card will help with previewing. Photoshop will benefit too.

Gints Klimanis · February 1st, 2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lindsay Bruce

If you have different experience, I bow to your superior knowledge :-)

For why you need to get yourself a decent graphics card, see this link http://www.videoguys.com/DIY-GPU.html

For comparisons of various monitors for color accuracy, check out :
"Smart Monitor Recommendations "
http://www.shootsmarter.com/infocenter/wc042.html

You may have to create an account to login and view this page.

Thanks for the VideoGuys page. According to that page, almost none of the video packages use SLI/Crossfire, so there is little reason to buy these top-of-the-line dual graphics card solutions. I use Sony Vegas 7 , which according to this page does not use the GPU in any way. For 3D graphics, the GPU programmable shader engines will save some time, but obviously, that depends on the complexity of your models.

I'd like to see better graphics card acceleration for HDV playback, but I have not found any pages that compare the various offerings. Today, money is better spent on faster CPUs with more cores.

January 26th, 2007, 12:00 AM	#1
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	is Apple 23" the best solution??? Guy's I'm bit concerned. (I thought I knew quite a few things about monitors, but that may not be the case.) Here is the thing, I need to upgrade my old CRT 17" monitor which is not big enough for my new requirements. I was originally thinking to buy Apple 23" cinema monitor, but now I'm hearing lot of good things about less expensive Dell displays as well as Acer and other less expensive brands. Any suggestions??? Thanks Vic

January 28th, 2007, 09:52 AM	#5
Benjamin Hill Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Iowa City, Iowa Posts: 670	Victor, I completely disagree with Greg about the 23" Apple monitors; I haven't used any other monitor that was as bright or sharp, and they are calibrated extremely well out of the box. As a working video professional it gives me a very reliable, faithful representation of the signal. They may cost a little more, but I haven't had any issues with it whatsoever and that kind of performance in a video tool is worth the extra money. __________________ youtube.com/benhillmedia linkedin.com/in/benhillmedia

January 28th, 2007, 11:32 PM	#8
Michael Y Wong Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Ontario Canada! Posts: 353	If you don't mind buying used, id say dell 2405 rev 3 is the best bang for buck performance. Native 1080p WUXGA, with good colour/viewing angle/response time. It is light years better then its successor the 2407. If things havent change since I last kept up with monitors all 24 inch lcd panels are made by samsung, whether its dell, samsung, acer etc etc... and it is easy to tell which panel it is via google. __________________ dreaming hobbyist + storyteller www.michaelywong.com

January 27th, 2007, 07:44 AM	#2
Marc Jayson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The Hague, The Netherlands Posts: 112	I had a 24" Dell (2407) but I returned it because of the banding problem. It's really annoying to when you work with gradients. I'm now waiting for the 27" monitors like the Samsung or the new NEC.

January 27th, 2007, 10:45 AM	#3
Greg Hartzell Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Columbia, CT Posts: 168	Hey Victor, I wouldn't get an apple monitor if I were you. While they are nice and the firewire ports on the back are handy, I think digital monitors from samsung or viewsonic are much better performers for less money. I edited on a cinima display for a couple months and wasn't that impressed (though some of this could be attributed to the video card). My brother has a 24" Samsung that absolutely blows the apple display away.

January 27th, 2007, 11:39 AM	#4
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	Thanks guys, I'm considering Samsung seriously now, although the fact that there are very few places I can actually go and check their monitors is bit frustrating (as oppose to Apple, that has stores in every other mall on Long Island.) I checked some expensive Sony monitors, for instance, and was disappointed with their performance. I should visit B&H anyway so I’ll check some Samsungs over there. Vic

January 28th, 2007, 10:12 AM	#6
Fergus Anderson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 321	I use a CRT - Sony FW900 24 inch widescreen and I havent seen it bettered yet. I must admit I like the look of the 30 inch Dell though!

January 28th, 2007, 10:43 PM	#7
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	Benjamin, I may still go with Apple. Every single Apple product that I'm using has been nothing but great, after all (computer, Ipod and others). Besides, I know, my FCP projects will look great on 23" cinema display. I have not seen too many other bands in action (I mean LCD-s) and the ones I've seen were very disappointing, but I got to do little more research just to be sure... Fergus, I agree that CRT-s are the best when it comes to focus, color accuracy or image in general, no doubt, but I may not have enough money for Sony broadcast monitor. And, as I said, Sony LCD monitors, at least the ones in the same price range as Apple, have disappointed me over all. Thanks for replying Vic

January 31st, 2007, 06:34 PM	#9
Lindsay Bruce New Boot Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bath, England Posts: 15	I used to review monitors (amongst other things) for a UK computer mag. I now run a network of PCs with a few Macs for DTP work. I haven't seen yet anything to touch the Apple displays. Although they use the same panels as some Dell products, the firmware and driver software is most definitely proprietary to Apple - this makes a big difference to the colour accuracy of the screen. Up next to a couple of Dell displays, the 23" cinema display is far and away the winner. Just try comparing viewing angles - if you move your head, the colours on the Dell appear to change, but not so on the Apple. I'm fortunate enough to be typing this on a 30" Apple display, and I can tell you that I won't ever go back! I'm not saying they are the best value for money - they certainly are expensive - but in my experience Apple are the best. Whatever monitor you buy, make sure you drive it with the best graphics card you can afford.

January 31st, 2007, 08:05 PM	#12
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I don't have nearly enough experience to comment on what is "best" but I can say that my Apple 23" Cinema Display has performed flawlessly for over 2 years and it looks great. I have a 21" Gateway sitting next to it, and it was a good value considering the low cost, but the image is nowhere near the quality of the Apple. Sam, I'm sorry to hear about your problems but my personal experience from owning and using dozens of Apple products ever since the Apple ][ is completely the opposite. The only chronic problem I've had was a logic board on a Powerbook G4 which required 3 replacements. Fortunately I purchased AppleCare so everything was covered. My only experience with the Dell monitors was at the "Texas HD Shootout" last year where several were used with component cables connected to various cameras. Compared to the Panasonic professional HD LCD screens they looked considerably worse. But considering the price difference I guess that shouldn't be much of a surprise :-)