750 TV line SD CRT for HD? at DVinfo.net

Josh Dahlberg · July 18th, 2006, 07:43 PM

JVC make a range of very affordable 'hi res' SD monitors in 15", 17" and 19" flavours. These have 750+ TV lines but unfortunately only SD inputs.

Okay, I can't afford an HD monitor so would one of these do, at least for focusing and getting the colours right. Obviously I'm not going to see every detail but 750TV lines doesn't sound too bad - it's got to be better than the rubbish viewfinders on 1/3" HD cams, right?

Stewart Menelaws · July 20th, 2006, 10:56 AM

Hi Josh - Before we purchased a couple of Sony HD monitors (8.5" & 23") we used a JVC 14" High Resolution monitor on location with the JVC HD101E in SD mode. Nice monitor for the money and we were happy with it. I'm sure you have read all the posts regarding the need to use HD monitors, so I will leave that subject alone. What may be of interest to you, we put our JVC monitor and Sony HD 8.5" monitor in a side by side test, and yes the little Sony monitor was sharper and had better colour depth, but we still found ourselves using the "Focus Assist" every time. Conclusion? we have learned to use the focus assist (its very accurate). - I'm sure you already do this but it's worth repeating for other readers, > zoom in to subject > focus > use focus assist (works better on some surfaces than others) > zoom out.... practice loads and before long you get pretty good at it. We have used that method for a lot of run n gun stuff and when checked on the 23" HD monitor there has been no focusing error. Of course a lot will depend on the kind of work you are doing... but yes it is nice to have the big HD monitor just to be sure everything is as it should be. hope this helps.

Regards: Stu
www.studioscotland.co.uk

Josh Dahlberg · July 20th, 2006, 09:13 PM

Thanks Stewart, that was useful. One of these days I'll have to make a decision.

Greg Boston · July 20th, 2006, 09:43 PM

Good advice Stewart about zoom-focus-zoom out.

It's such a standard way of operating that the Fujinon HD lens on my camera has a button next to the VTR button that does just that. From where ever you are zoomed, the button will zoom all the way in so you can set critical focus and when you let off, it goes right back to where it was.

-gb-

Josh Dahlberg · July 21st, 2006, 01:39 AM

Yes, of course I am aware of this practice and use it myself, but I guess from using the XL2 (I believe mine has back focus issues) I don't always trust this method.

Actually my primary concern is getting the colours and luma levels right for lighting and what not. I know an SD reference will lack resolution, but will they also fail in the colour/luma department?

Thanks guys

Stewart Menelaws · July 21st, 2006, 03:47 AM

Josh - You did not mention what kind of work you do? or the level of your experience, that would help in trying to give you an answer that could be most helpful to you.

See if this helps you get a clearer picture... sorry no pun intended :)

We also have a JVC 14" High Res monitor hooked up in our edit suite sitting near the 23" Sony HD monitor (still in use for SD work) - When viewing footage shot in HDV on both monitors - does the JVC monitor (given the budgetry constraints) give results "good enough" for judging general colour etc? - In my opinion yes it does... (but my eyes have 25 years working experience lighting for film and video) but as mentioned it does depend on what kind of work you are doing. Where you will find the "real" problem is when your footage is viewed on a large screen, that is where focus and other issues will show up. A good test is to burn various types of test footage to DVD and then play it on a number of TV sets and see what you are getting. If you were to ask me if I would buy a brand new SD monitor? the answer would be no, unless it was greatly reduced in price. While you do need to be careful buying used monitors (and some folks never would) you can pick up used/demo JVC/Sony monitors very easily (or at least in the UK you can) and as long as it has not had too much use you could get yourself a good deal, then you won't be cheesed off at spending the cash when it comes to purchasing an HD monitor once the prices drop. Can you hire a JVC Hi Res monitor for the day? Hope this is helping Josh, I know it's a real dilema for many folks at the moment.

Regards: Stu
www.studioscotland.co.uk

Josh Dahlberg · July 21st, 2006, 04:51 AM

Hi Stewart,

I really appreciate your posts - very helpful and well considered. To answer your question, I've been playing around on low-budget projects the past four years (DVX & XL2 cameras). I just ended my day-job because I want to get into the industry full-time and I'm at a point when I can do so.

At the same time, I want to keep working on creative indie-projects when I can. I have a 500 line Sony CRT at the moment which just doesn't cut it (doesn't even have underscan), so I thought at least the JVC would be a step up. Budget wise, I could scrape the money together for an HD monitor but it just seems like a bad time to make the investment given that they're bound to be half the price in a couple of years (and LCD technology is improving quickly while dropping in price).

But anyway, you gave me some excellent points to consider, especially renting a few options. Thanks for taking the time!

July 18th, 2006, 07:43 PM	#1
Josh Dahlberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 513	750 TV line SD CRT for HD? JVC make a range of very affordable 'hi res' SD monitors in 15", 17" and 19" flavours. These have 750+ TV lines but unfortunately only SD inputs. Okay, I can't afford an HD monitor so would one of these do, at least for focusing and getting the colours right. Obviously I'm not going to see every detail but 750TV lines doesn't sound too bad - it's got to be better than the rubbish viewfinders on 1/3" HD cams, right?

July 21st, 2006, 03:47 AM	#6
Stewart Menelaws Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Scotland (UK) Posts: 219	What about Colour/Luma? Josh - You did not mention what kind of work you do? or the level of your experience, that would help in trying to give you an answer that could be most helpful to you. See if this helps you get a clearer picture... sorry no pun intended :) We also have a JVC 14" High Res monitor hooked up in our edit suite sitting near the 23" Sony HD monitor (still in use for SD work) - When viewing footage shot in HDV on both monitors - does the JVC monitor (given the budgetry constraints) give results "good enough" for judging general colour etc? - In my opinion yes it does... (but my eyes have 25 years working experience lighting for film and video) but as mentioned it does depend on what kind of work you are doing. Where you will find the "real" problem is when your footage is viewed on a large screen, that is where focus and other issues will show up. A good test is to burn various types of test footage to DVD and then play it on a number of TV sets and see what you are getting. If you were to ask me if I would buy a brand new SD monitor? the answer would be no, unless it was greatly reduced in price. While you do need to be careful buying used monitors (and some folks never would) you can pick up used/demo JVC/Sony monitors very easily (or at least in the UK you can) and as long as it has not had too much use you could get yourself a good deal, then you won't be cheesed off at spending the cash when it comes to purchasing an HD monitor once the prices drop. Can you hire a JVC Hi Res monitor for the day? Hope this is helping Josh, I know it's a real dilema for many folks at the moment. Regards: Stu www.studioscotland.co.uk

July 20th, 2006, 10:56 AM	#2
Stewart Menelaws Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Scotland (UK) Posts: 219	Hi Josh - Before we purchased a couple of Sony HD monitors (8.5" & 23") we used a JVC 14" High Resolution monitor on location with the JVC HD101E in SD mode. Nice monitor for the money and we were happy with it. I'm sure you have read all the posts regarding the need to use HD monitors, so I will leave that subject alone. What may be of interest to you, we put our JVC monitor and Sony HD 8.5" monitor in a side by side test, and yes the little Sony monitor was sharper and had better colour depth, but we still found ourselves using the "Focus Assist" every time. Conclusion? we have learned to use the focus assist (its very accurate). - I'm sure you already do this but it's worth repeating for other readers, > zoom in to subject > focus > use focus assist (works better on some surfaces than others) > zoom out.... practice loads and before long you get pretty good at it. We have used that method for a lot of run n gun stuff and when checked on the 23" HD monitor there has been no focusing error. Of course a lot will depend on the kind of work you are doing... but yes it is nice to have the big HD monitor just to be sure everything is as it should be. hope this helps. Regards: Stu www.studioscotland.co.uk

July 20th, 2006, 09:13 PM	#3
Josh Dahlberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 513	Thanks Stewart, that was useful. One of these days I'll have to make a decision.

July 20th, 2006, 09:43 PM	#4
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Good advice Stewart about zoom-focus-zoom out. It's such a standard way of operating that the Fujinon HD lens on my camera has a button next to the VTR button that does just that. From where ever you are zoomed, the button will zoom all the way in so you can set critical focus and when you let off, it goes right back to where it was. -gb-

July 21st, 2006, 01:39 AM	#5
Josh Dahlberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 513	Yes, of course I am aware of this practice and use it myself, but I guess from using the XL2 (I believe mine has back focus issues) I don't always trust this method. Actually my primary concern is getting the colours and luma levels right for lighting and what not. I know an SD reference will lack resolution, but will they also fail in the colour/luma department? Thanks guys

July 21st, 2006, 04:51 AM	#7
Josh Dahlberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 513	Hi Stewart, I really appreciate your posts - very helpful and well considered. To answer your question, I've been playing around on low-budget projects the past four years (DVX & XL2 cameras). I just ended my day-job because I want to get into the industry full-time and I'm at a point when I can do so. At the same time, I want to keep working on creative indie-projects when I can. I have a 500 line Sony CRT at the moment which just doesn't cut it (doesn't even have underscan), so I thought at least the JVC would be a step up. Budget wise, I could scrape the money together for an HD monitor but it just seems like a bad time to make the investment given that they're bound to be half the price in a couple of years (and LCD technology is improving quickly while dropping in price). But anyway, you gave me some excellent points to consider, especially renting a few options. Thanks for taking the time!