Calibrating Monitors

Glenn Chan · July 22nd, 2004, 09:44 AM

http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.htm

Tony Pham · March 10th, 2005, 05:17 PM

Hi everyone,
I've just got the Sony PVM 14L2 monitor and tried to calibrate the monitor using the instruction on this website:

http://www.indianapolisfilm.net/article.php?story=20040117004721902

I've got to the very last part, but then I couldn't adjust the Hue to get the result like the last picture on that site. I got pretty close to it, except I couldn't see the little blue bar at the bottom right, no matter what I try. So, I ignored it and went on to editing.

But then I realized that the picture on my TV (which is looped through the PVM 14L2, which is connected to my VCR. And the VCR is connected to my little digital camera connected to the computer via firewire) is really bad compared to what is on the PVM 14L2. I'm saying this because I've got a closeup shot of a girl and her skin isn't very soft. However, when I look on my PVM, her skin doesn't look as bad as it is on the TV. This is really weird because if I base my color correcting on the PVM, then when people watch it at their home, the image's gonna be really bad. Isn't the picture on the PVM suppposed to be "truer" than it is on TV? Please advice. Maybe I did something wrong in calibrating my monitor?

Wayne Orr · March 10th, 2005, 09:42 PM

Sorry, Tony, but your grammar has me a bit confused. Anyway, here is a link to Syntetic Aperture, where they have an excellent download on monitor set-up: http://www.synthetic-ap.com/tips/calibrate.pdf
They also have accurate color bars you can download for FREE.

Wayne Orr, SOC

Tony Pham · March 10th, 2005, 10:40 PM

Thanks Wayne for the link and excuse my English. But can you let me know which part confused you? Thanks.

Wayne Orr · March 11th, 2005, 11:25 AM

"But then I realized that the picture on my TV (which is looped through the PVM 14L2, which is connected to my VCR. And the VCR is connected to my little digital camera connected to the computer via firewire) is really bad compared to what is on the PVM 14L2."

What is "really bad," Tony? The camera, vcr, or the picture on the TV? If the picture on the TV is really bad, why are you using it?

Hopefully you have the monitor connected to the S-video of the camera. That would be best.

" I'm saying this because I've got a closeup shot of a girl and her skin isn't very soft. However, when I look on my PVM, her skin doesn't look as bad as it is on the TV. " ????? On the front of the monitor, there should be a control for "sharpness" or some such. Be sure that is in the detent, or about mid-range.
Also, check for a similar setting on the TV controls, and be certain it is set mid-range. "Sharpness" is not a function of normal monitor set-ups. If your monitor is set correctly, I would not pay too much attention to the TV. And hopefully you are using SMPTE split field bars for your set-up. Yes? They are included in that FREE app from Sythetic Ap.

Wayne

Tony Pham · March 11th, 2005, 02:36 PM

I'm sorry, Wayne. Let's me try to explain the problem one more time.

I preview my work on the Sony PVM using firewire connected to my little camera Sony DSR-38. I also use the output in my PVM to get the picture on the standard TV. So now I have 2 monitors (my Sony PVM and the standard TV) connected to the same source. This is where the problem begins. The image on my sony PVM is a little softer than the image on the standard TV. For example, I have a CU of a girl on both monitors. On the PVM, her skin is a little softer, and it's really hard to see any wrinkles on her face. However, on the standard TV, her skin looks sharper, and I can see all the wrinkles clearly. Can you explain this? Thanks.

By the way, I did reset all the settings on my standard TV and put the sharpness to the midrange. I also calibrate my monitor using the SMPTE color bars.

One more thing, someone once told me that my problem might be related to the black level my little camera output and that getting a DV transcoder with the add setup might solve my problem. What do you think about this? Thanks.

Hope it makes sense this time.

Wayne Orr · March 11th, 2005, 08:43 PM

OK, Tony, now I get it. However, I'm afraid I don't have a good explanation for what is happening here, except that often TV sets have the sharpness turned up quite high at the factory, so you don't notice as they begin to die with old age. This, of course, assumes that your pro monitor is in good working order. Have you used it before, and know it to be accurate, or did you just purchase it recently? Does it look sharp on other material with fine detail? You can get find a resolution chart on the web with instructions for using it to see if your monitor is resolving as it should be.

The other way to go would be to lay off to tape the material you are concerned about and play it back on a friend's TV that you feel is in good working order.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Hugh DiMauro · March 15th, 2005, 09:01 AM

How do I set up a location monitor without color bars/pluge pattern since my Sony PD 170 doesn't have the pluge pattern to correctly set up brightness and contrast?

Glenn Chan · March 15th, 2005, 01:19 PM

From your editing program, record bars and tone (with pluge bars) onto DV tape.

Most programs give you correct bars... double check on the scopes in your editing program.

Boyd Ostroff · March 15th, 2005, 02:06 PM

You could also burn them to a memory stick on your PD 170. They would be scaled down to 640x480 but that shouldn't matter a lot for what you want....

Doing it on tape is a good idea too - have done that myself. Only problem is you need to remember to put them on all your tapes, or you have to swap tapes, etc.

Hugh DiMauro · March 15th, 2005, 04:18 PM

Boyd? Glen? Why in hell didn't I think of that? May I say that you two guys are my new heroes? I am calling Rick Bravo right now and telling him that he's no longer my hero. You two knocked him out of the box.

For shame, Rick Bravo! Not answering my call for help! Harummph!

One more question: Does Vegas 5 have true SMPTE color bars? That's what I use. Also, how do I double check the color bars/pluge pattern on my scopes?

Glenn Chan · March 16th, 2005, 12:10 AM

Hmm maybe it isn't worth it to check color bars on scopes. Vegas 5 does have proper SMPTE color bars. To setup the scopes properly:
Click on the "Scope Settings" button (in the video scopes window) and check both "7.5IRE Setup" and "Studio RGB (16 to 235)" for North American NTSC DV; japan is different). Read the manual if you're unclear on what settings to use.

Once you have the video scopes setup properly, the pluge bars should read "3.5", "7.5", and "11.5". Vegas doesn't give precise values like that on the scopes but you get the point.

If you have faith that the bars are right (like I do), then just do it. Checking on scopes just adds complication and you may not even be sure they are right.

This information does not apply to Vegas 4 and before.

2- Hopefully this doesn't confuse you more:
When you calibrate the monitor to your PD170 you may want to watch out for the 7.5IRE setup issue. DV digital values range from 0-255, and the blackest black is supposed to be 16 (not 0). 16 (digital) is supposed to translate to 7.5IRE (analog) during the digital--> analog conversion. Some equipment puts 16 (digital) at 0IRE which is improper. Your PD170 may do this, or it may have a setting to switch between 0 and 7.5IRE.

If you are calibrating before you shoot then this isn't an issue at all (you can say your blackest blacks are at 0IRE, 7.5IRE, or anything else you'd like). If you would like to avoid giving problems to the people who will use the equipment next, then leave a note or something saying they should re-calibrate the monitor.

Tony Pham · March 19th, 2005, 02:35 AM

Thanks Wayne, it's a brand new monitor from B&H. The last option is okay, although that would kill the point of having NTSC monitor.

Ian Stark · March 19th, 2005, 06:30 AM

Hi all,

Looks like there aren't too many people using the JVC TM-90PSN monitor! (see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41281).

I was given mine second hand with no user guide.

I guess that many of the switches are common to other monitors. I wonder if anyone could explain what the following switches are for and when they should be used:

SKEW (on / off)
DISC SW (auto / 50Hz)
75ohm SWITCHED OUT/OPEN BRIDGE OUT

Regarding calibration, I can display PAL colour bars on the monitor through my XM2, but what do I calibrate against? Is it just done by eye? I understand there are various calibration devices and scopes available but in the absence of these, is there an alternative method?

Any advice welcomed with open arms. Thanks.

Ian . . .

Glenn Chan · March 19th, 2005, 11:32 PM

Quote:

75ohm SWITCHED OUT/OPEN BRIDGE OUT

I believe this is what happens:
If you want to daisy-chain monitors, then by taking 75 ohm resistance out you will be able to daisy-chain without weaker signal strength.

Not too sure what the two other functions are.

2- Monitor calibration:

The following two links have some information on this, although they apply more to NTSC/North America:
http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.htm

http://www.synthetic-ap.com/tips/calibrate.pdf (PDF)
http://www.synthetic-ap.com/tips/index.html

I find that even if you calibrate your monitor to color bars, the colors can still be whacked. Monitors shift colors as they age, and room lighting conditions can affect your eye's white balance and there can be glare on the screen (block light with your hands to test that).

*some monitors have a feature in their menu which lets you feed color bars to it and it will auto-calibrate itself. I don't know if this works with PAL.

March 10th, 2005, 05:17 PM	#32
Tony Pham Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Garden Grove, CA Posts: 70	Need help with NTSC Monitor.... Hi everyone, I've just got the Sony PVM 14L2 monitor and tried to calibrate the monitor using the instruction on this website: http://www.indianapolisfilm.net/article.php?story=20040117004721902 I've got to the very last part, but then I couldn't adjust the Hue to get the result like the last picture on that site. I got pretty close to it, except I couldn't see the little blue bar at the bottom right, no matter what I try. So, I ignored it and went on to editing. But then I realized that the picture on my TV (which is looped through the PVM 14L2, which is connected to my VCR. And the VCR is connected to my little digital camera connected to the computer via firewire) is really bad compared to what is on the PVM 14L2. I'm saying this because I've got a closeup shot of a girl and her skin isn't very soft. However, when I look on my PVM, her skin doesn't look as bad as it is on the TV. This is really weird because if I base my color correcting on the PVM, then when people watch it at their home, the image's gonna be really bad. Isn't the picture on the PVM suppposed to be "truer" than it is on TV? Please advice. Maybe I did something wrong in calibrating my monitor?

March 15th, 2005, 09:01 AM	#38
Hugh DiMauro Trustee Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,207	How To set Up A Monitor W/O Color Bars How do I set up a location monitor without color bars/pluge pattern since my Sony PD 170 doesn't have the pluge pattern to correctly set up brightness and contrast? __________________ Interesting, if true. And interesting anyway.

March 15th, 2005, 04:18 PM	#41
Hugh DiMauro Trustee Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,207	Boyd? Glen? Why in hell didn't I think of that? May I say that you two guys are my new heroes? I am calling Rick Bravo right now and telling him that he's no longer my hero. You two knocked him out of the box. For shame, Rick Bravo! Not answering my call for help! Harummph! One more question: Does Vegas 5 have true SMPTE color bars? That's what I use. Also, how do I double check the color bars/pluge pattern on my scopes? __________________ Interesting, if true. And interesting anyway.

March 19th, 2005, 06:30 AM	#44
Ian Stark Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,237	Monitor switches & calibration question Hi all, Looks like there aren't too many people using the JVC TM-90PSN monitor! (see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41281). I was given mine second hand with no user guide. I guess that many of the switches are common to other monitors. I wonder if anyone could explain what the following switches are for and when they should be used: SKEW (on / off) DISC SW (auto / 50Hz) 75ohm SWITCHED OUT/OPEN BRIDGE OUT Regarding calibration, I can display PAL colour bars on the monitor through my XM2, but what do I calibrate against? Is it just done by eye? I understand there are various calibration devices and scopes available but in the absence of these, is there an alternative method? Any advice welcomed with open arms. Thanks. Ian . . . __________________ www.vit-media.com www.classicmachinefilms.co.uk

July 22nd, 2004, 09:44 AM	#31
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.htm

March 10th, 2005, 09:42 PM	#33
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	Sorry, Tony, but your grammar has me a bit confused. Anyway, here is a link to Syntetic Aperture, where they have an excellent download on monitor set-up: http://www.synthetic-ap.com/tips/calibrate.pdf They also have accurate color bars you can download for FREE. Wayne Orr, SOC

March 10th, 2005, 10:40 PM	#34
Tony Pham Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Garden Grove, CA Posts: 70	Thanks Wayne for the link and excuse my English. But can you let me know which part confused you? Thanks.

March 11th, 2005, 11:25 AM	#35
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	"But then I realized that the picture on my TV (which is looped through the PVM 14L2, which is connected to my VCR. And the VCR is connected to my little digital camera connected to the computer via firewire) is really bad compared to what is on the PVM 14L2." What is "really bad," Tony? The camera, vcr, or the picture on the TV? If the picture on the TV is really bad, why are you using it? Hopefully you have the monitor connected to the S-video of the camera. That would be best. " I'm saying this because I've got a closeup shot of a girl and her skin isn't very soft. However, when I look on my PVM, her skin doesn't look as bad as it is on the TV. " ????? On the front of the monitor, there should be a control for "sharpness" or some such. Be sure that is in the detent, or about mid-range. Also, check for a similar setting on the TV controls, and be certain it is set mid-range. "Sharpness" is not a function of normal monitor set-ups. If your monitor is set correctly, I would not pay too much attention to the TV. And hopefully you are using SMPTE split field bars for your set-up. Yes? They are included in that FREE app from Sythetic Ap. Wayne

March 11th, 2005, 02:36 PM	#36
Tony Pham Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Garden Grove, CA Posts: 70	I'm sorry, Wayne. Let's me try to explain the problem one more time. I preview my work on the Sony PVM using firewire connected to my little camera Sony DSR-38. I also use the output in my PVM to get the picture on the standard TV. So now I have 2 monitors (my Sony PVM and the standard TV) connected to the same source. This is where the problem begins. The image on my sony PVM is a little softer than the image on the standard TV. For example, I have a CU of a girl on both monitors. On the PVM, her skin is a little softer, and it's really hard to see any wrinkles on her face. However, on the standard TV, her skin looks sharper, and I can see all the wrinkles clearly. Can you explain this? Thanks. By the way, I did reset all the settings on my standard TV and put the sharpness to the midrange. I also calibrate my monitor using the SMPTE color bars. One more thing, someone once told me that my problem might be related to the black level my little camera output and that getting a DV transcoder with the add setup might solve my problem. What do you think about this? Thanks. Hope it makes sense this time.

March 11th, 2005, 08:43 PM	#37
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	OK, Tony, now I get it. However, I'm afraid I don't have a good explanation for what is happening here, except that often TV sets have the sharpness turned up quite high at the factory, so you don't notice as they begin to die with old age. This, of course, assumes that your pro monitor is in good working order. Have you used it before, and know it to be accurate, or did you just purchase it recently? Does it look sharp on other material with fine detail? You can get find a resolution chart on the web with instructions for using it to see if your monitor is resolving as it should be. The other way to go would be to lay off to tape the material you are concerned about and play it back on a friend's TV that you feel is in good working order. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

March 15th, 2005, 01:19 PM	#39
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	From your editing program, record bars and tone (with pluge bars) onto DV tape. Most programs give you correct bars... double check on the scopes in your editing program.

March 15th, 2005, 02:06 PM	#40
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	You could also burn them to a memory stick on your PD 170. They would be scaled down to 640x480 but that shouldn't matter a lot for what you want.... Doing it on tape is a good idea too - have done that myself. Only problem is you need to remember to put them on all your tapes, or you have to swap tapes, etc.

March 16th, 2005, 12:10 AM	#42
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Hmm maybe it isn't worth it to check color bars on scopes. Vegas 5 does have proper SMPTE color bars. To setup the scopes properly: Click on the "Scope Settings" button (in the video scopes window) and check both "7.5IRE Setup" and "Studio RGB (16 to 235)" for North American NTSC DV; japan is different). Read the manual if you're unclear on what settings to use. Once you have the video scopes setup properly, the pluge bars should read "3.5", "7.5", and "11.5". Vegas doesn't give precise values like that on the scopes but you get the point. If you have faith that the bars are right (like I do), then just do it. Checking on scopes just adds complication and you may not even be sure they are right. This information does not apply to Vegas 4 and before. 2- Hopefully this doesn't confuse you more: When you calibrate the monitor to your PD170 you may want to watch out for the 7.5IRE setup issue. DV digital values range from 0-255, and the blackest black is supposed to be 16 (not 0). 16 (digital) is supposed to translate to 7.5IRE (analog) during the digital--> analog conversion. Some equipment puts 16 (digital) at 0IRE which is improper. Your PD170 may do this, or it may have a setting to switch between 0 and 7.5IRE. If you are calibrating before you shoot then this isn't an issue at all (you can say your blackest blacks are at 0IRE, 7.5IRE, or anything else you'd like). If you would like to avoid giving problems to the people who will use the equipment next, then leave a note or something saying they should re-calibrate the monitor.

March 19th, 2005, 02:35 AM	#43
Tony Pham Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Garden Grove, CA Posts: 70	Thanks Wayne, it's a brand new monitor from B&H. The last option is okay, although that would kill the point of having NTSC monitor.