720p vs. 1080i for editing? which is normal?

[Robert Nagle]

Hi, I'm about to buy an HDTV, probably a 42 inch DLP, whichever is cheaper.

But wait. a Last minute difficulty.

All the specs for Best Buy and Circuit City list the resolution as 720p. (Actually some of the plasma lists 1080i).

Maybe I'm getting confused, but I thought today's hdtv's supported both standards depending on the signal. (with 1080p being the holy grail out of everybody's price range).

In general what sort of resolution should I be outputting for my HDV video?

Also, if I plan to connect my hdtv to my PC card for monitoring, are there incompatibilities to think about?

(see my other post here
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=58399 )


Robert Nagle

[Duane Smith]

Originally Posted by Robert Nagle

Maybe I'm getting confused, but I thought today's hdtv's supported both standards depending on the signal. (with 1080p being the holy grail out of everybody's price range).

Yes, you are confused. Let me try to help clear things up a bit...

HDTVs come in many formats, including 720p, 1080i, and now the new 1080p...and NO, all HDTVs do not necessarily natively display all of those formats. In fact, if you look around at all the models available for purchase, you'll most likely find that it's not the norm for an HDTV to support all the formats.

• A 720p unit will (usually) 'downconvert' & 'deinterlace' a 1080i signal, and (usually) will just 'downconvert' a 1080p signal.

• A 1080i unit will (usually) 'upconvert' & 'interlace' a 720p signal, and (usually) will just 'interlace' a 1080p signal.

• A 1080p unit will (usually) 'upconvert' a 720p signal, and (usually) will just 'deinterlace' a 1080i signal.

Which kind is best? Well that depends on what YOU perceive as 'best', and what you anticipate viewing on the set. I'd recommend going to a HIGH END home theater store and see if you can SEE the various options (upconverting, downconverting, etc) in-person. Also, I'd consider what kind of camera you have (720p? 1080i? 1080p?) and think about how that will work with the type of set you buy.

-------------------

Also FWIW, I would not say that 1080p units are 'out of everybody's price range'. In fact, I'd say that they're are some models today that are cheaper than many 720p DLP sets of similar size were last year at this time. Just look and compare these sets on BestBuy.com...

THIS IS THE 'CHEAP' 720p DLP set:
- 42" Samsung DLP @ $1700

THIS IS THE 'CHEAP' 1080p SET:
- 37" Westinghouse 37" LCD @ $1800


Believe me, I looked at that exact same Samsung DLP set about 12-to-18 months ago, and it was $2499. In comparison, I don't think the 1080p sets are too expensive at all....and certainly not 'out of everybody's price range'.

2¢

[John Mitchell]

Keep in mind too that the scalers and de-interlacers in these sets vary greatly in quality and performance. So much so that I have come to the conclusion that it is far better (if more expensive) to use an external scaler.

I'm not very sure of the difference between LCD and DLP except from a very basic aesthetic viewpoint - I don't like most of the LCD sets I've seen for video.. CRT's are good :)

[Robert Nagle]

Funny you compared the 42 inch samsung with the 37 inch westinghouse.

I was just about to buy the 42 inch samsung this weekend.

I'm still leaning on it, but thanks for helping to clarify things.

BTW, I'm going to buy a linkplayer to play HDV footage on the tv. i have to wonder why some hdtv's don't have usb connections.

rj

[Duane Smith]

Make no mistake; I think the image quality of the Samsung 42" DLP is astounding, even if it is 'only' a 720p set. The images are brilliant and vibrant, and it seems to scale better than the typical LCD set does. And like I said, I nearly purchased that set last year for $2500, but it was just too far outside of my budget.

It's not a bad set at all; it's just not what I'd personally buy today. YMMV

[Robert Nagle]

And now Best buy is selling it for $1708. That should be instructive.

You know actually, I'm doing research about recording HD signals from OTA.


I read this:
To use the IEEE1394 interface in WinXP, specific support of the partiular model of unit with the IEEE1394 port is required. That is, the presence of a IEEE1394 port doesn't imply compatibility with Windows XP. Various drivers and applications software are required and available to use the JVC and Mitsubishi DVHS decks with Windows XP. For example, even though one "OTA only" model of the Samsung HDTV has IEEE1394, it cannot be used with Windows XP since there are no mating drivers. The 169time equipped DTC100 can be used with Windows XP.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=615224

(I don't know if this example is talking about my specific samsung model. But I'm checking it out first.

[David Kennett]

Duane,

Your facts are right on! The problem with 1080i is that the only set able to display it WITHOUT conversion is CRT. CRTs are disappearing, so soon 1080i cameras will create an image that MUST be converted to be shown. I can't for the life of me see any advantage in doing THAT!

I have been aware of the merits of each format for some time, and at one time favored 1080i slightly. I think that when those two choices were first made, there was not the awareness that the CRT would die as the only native 1080i display.

I have had Sammy 50" DLP (1280:720)for over 2 years now, and while there are some improvements I would like to see made, more resolution is not at the top of the list.

[Duane Smith]

Yes, CRTs are disappearing...but they're not gone yet, and I suspect that they'll still be around for a little while longer. Why? Because....

A: The cheapest, bottom-of-the-line HDTV sets in the sub-36" size are CRT. Sure, LCDs get cheaper every year, but they still haven't gotten as low as the CRTs. For example, SAM'S CLUB sells two different CRT HDTVs for under $599; one is a 32" 4:3 with a built-in tuner (good for those folks in rural areas who rely on rabbit ears), and the other is a 30" 16:9 with no tuner (for those folsk with satellite/cable). I'm telling you, generic middle America still doesn't understand HD, or 16:9, why the government is making their current televisions obselete (sans converter, anyways), and why people need ultra-big screen TVs. Heck, 10 years ago they probably considered a 30" TV a big unit!

B: The cheapest 'Big Screen' HDTVs are the internal-projection CRT boxes. Yes, they're similar to the big projections TVs of the 1980's. And yes, they're equal in size to many compact cars. ;-) But they're HD, they're 1080i (often perceived as 'better' than 720p), and they offer the most bang-for-the-buck of any HD set available today. SAM'S CLUB sells an el-cheapo 52" 1080i internal projection CRT box for $799. That's a shockingly cheap big-screen HDTV. You'd be hard-pressed to get ANY other HDTV that large for that little money. Sure, it's CRAP compared to the $1800-to-$4500 DLPs, LCDs, and Plasmas. But crap at $799 it's hard to complain! LOL!


So yes, while CRTs and 1080i should eventually die, it's not gonna be this year, and most likely it is several more years away.

2¢

[David Kennett]

Duane,

I guess the time frame depends on how you define it. While CRTs will exist for some time, I expect sales of new ones to continue to decrease rapidly. A recent visit to BB found only 3 out of 20 or so computer monitors on display were CRTs. RP HDTVs were in the same ball park. Direct view remains the only CRT TV of any volume.

I think the low prices on small screen CRTs are being discounted to deplete inventory. Sony just closed a CRT plant in San Diego that's been there for many years. A few months ago a plant was closed in Toledo, OH. At the same time new LCD flat panel factories are being built. I expect that technology to dominate the market for screens smaller than 40". I fully expect CRTs to be virtually gone from the shelves in another year.

I guess it will take a year to find out.

[Duane Smith]

On the COMPUTER monitor front, I agree with you 100%...it's getting to be difficult to even find a small CRT anymore.

Otherwise, I'm mostly in agreement with you -- there will certainly be fewer and fewer CRTs available as the months go by, and by this time next year they'll probably be NEAR extinct...but I still think there will be a few holding on for a couple more years. The only deciding factor will be when LCDs (and others) get as cheap or cheaper -- because CRTs probably aren't going to get much cheaper than they already are.

:-)

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Duane Smith

Yes, CRTs are disappearing...but they're not gone yet, and I suspect that they'll still be around for a little while longer. Why? Because....

A: The cheapest, bottom-of-the-line HDTV sets in the sub-36" size are CRT. Sure, LCDs get cheaper every year, but they still haven't gotten as low as the CRTs. For example, SAM'S CLUB sells two different CRT HDTVs for under $599; one is a 32" 4:3 with a built-in tuner (good for those folks in rural areas who rely on rabbit ears), and the other is a 30" 16:9 with no tuner (for those folsk with satellite/cable).

2¢

How could a 4x3 set be HDTV? HDTV is 16x9 native...hmm methinks HDTV is being bandied about by retailers a little too freely.

[Duane Smith]

I dunno....I assume it just crops the 16:9 image to 4:3? It's certainly strange, but it's also certainly a 1080i set....a "real" HDTV.

Weird, huh?

[John Mitchell]

Interesting - thes CRT's can display 1080i and 720P but I wonder just how much they resolve - i.e I wonder if the picture tubes have any finer dot pitch than SD CRT's?

[Duane Smith]

Everything I've read points to HD CRTs resolving anywhere from as low as 600 to as high as 800 lines, depending on the model/manufacuter.

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Duane Smith

Everything I've read points to HD CRTs resolving anywhere from as low as 600 to as high as 800 lines, depending on the model/manufacuter.

That would make them as good as the top of the line Sony SD broadcast monitors which max out at around 800 lines... sounds excellent.

Where did you find those figures - I couldn't see any resolution figures quoted for any of them @ Crutchfield's?