viewing/editing with HDTV? how? why? at DVinfo.net

Robert Nagle · January 16th, 2006, 10:36 AM

Hi, I have a Sony HC1 HDV camera.

I'm probably going to buy a HDTV soon. I don't have an HDTV, and would like to use a HDTV as both as a tv and a way to view HDV footage. For me, I can buy either a HDTV OR a HD computer monitor, but not both.

I have a basic question about preparing HDV footage.

Am I hooking up the HDTV to the PC or to the camera? In other words, is it necessary to "edit" the footage using a high def monitor (which in this case happens to be a TV screen)?

(That would imply that I would need to upgrade my video card so it supports a HD signal, right?).

Alternatively, I suppose I can hook up the HDTV to the camera, and show the HDV signal directly to the screen. Is that what most people mean when you talk about previewing the signal in HDV mode? That means that you are viewing the HDV signal either as "preprocessed" footage (i.e., before editing) or for viewing the signal as "postprocessed footage" (after editing and rendering).

At what stage of the workflow are you using the High def monitor to check your footage?

One other thing. My PC desk is quite a distance away from where the TV stand will be. (8-10 feet). Depending on what feedback I receive, I could put the tv closer or further (although at the expense of comfort).

Do I need to have the TV close to the PC? If so, then what's the farthest it can go?

Finally, do I need to buy a special video card to support output to a High Def television? Is it only a video card issue, or are there other hardware requirements I need to worry about (motherboard, OS)?

Robert Nagle

Robert Nagle · January 16th, 2006, 10:55 AM

here's another question:

If I'm using my HDTV not only as a broadcast monitor but also to do live editing, that assumes that my video card can send signal to the HDMI port. I got that.

But if I do this, I don't plan to connect my HDTV to my PC all the time, only during special occasions. That means I'd like to be able to switch back and forth from my HDTV (for editing only) and my old monitor/videocard (for everyday use).

Do videocards which have an HDMI port also have a port for traditional computer monitors? Or do I need to have two separate video cards to do this?

For my old videocard I have Asus V9520Magic/T/128, VD-V9520Magic-T128
Video Card, GeForce FX5200, 128MB DDR, AGP8X, TV-Out, Retail box. So that means it's taking the AGP port as well.

Robert Nagle

Steven Gotz · January 16th, 2006, 05:47 PM

The Matrox Parhelia APVe has two regular PC monitor outputs and one Component output. Or, you can just use three PC monitors.

The NVidia Quadro FX-540 has 2 ports, so either one for PC and one for TV or two for TV.

Both require PCI Express slots.

The problem with HDV is that you can not just connect the camera via the firewire and then get the component output. It does not work that way. So a special card is required.

Personally, I find that editing on a LCD screen is so close to the LCD HDTV, I can wait until I export to M2T to see it on the HDTV. But then again, I don't do much fancy color correction. I will do what I suggested that you do as soon as I get a new PC. I am hoping that someone will sell me a dual processor system, where both CPUs are dual core - soon. I want a monster. But they don't sel them yet as far as I can tell.

Glenn Chan · January 16th, 2006, 06:01 PM

Colfax, Monarch Computer(s) (I forget their name), and some other companies sell dual core dual Opteron systems (2 CPUs, 4 cores).

Robert Nagle · January 16th, 2006, 08:10 PM

Wow, I just realized I don't have a clue what's going on.

Steven wrote: The problem with HDV is that you can not just connect the camera via the firewire and then get the component output. It does not work that way. So a special card is required.

Just to clarify:
1. If I connected the HDTV to the Matrox Parhelia APVe graphics card, it would show the PC screen on the HDTV, right? If not, why?
2. Firewire. That's how I bring the footage into the PC, but after I do that, firewire is irrelevant, right?
3. Ok, I understand PCI Express cards (I think). I've been reading about HDMI vs. DVI. I assumed those are ports to the graphics card. What's the difference?
4. so I basically have two ways of viewing my footage: camcorder hooked up to HDTV (via component video?) AND PC hooked up to HDTV (via DVI port on the video card).

Robert Nagle

Steven Gotz · January 16th, 2006, 08:31 PM

1. No, not unless you wanted it to. It shows the same material as the overlay. Read more about it here: http://www.matrox.com/mga/workstatio.../apve/home.cfm

As to how? Heck, it's magic for all I care. All I know is that it works.

2. You use firewire to capture, and to write back to tape. But the right back requires some fancy processing first. It is not real time. The only thing realtime is AFTER the processing.

3. I will leave HDMI and DVI to the hardware wonks.

4. Not the DVI port. The Component output of the special card.

Read the Videomaker review here: http://www.videomaker.com/scripts/ar...12071&GU=le929

Robert Nagle · January 17th, 2006, 10:39 AM

Thanks. Helpful information.

One more question.

You say The Component Output port on the video card will feed the signal to the HDTV via the HDTV output adaptor. (see picture on http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/a...jsp?id=33839-0 ; I'm assuming that is the cable you use. ).

Here's my issue. My TV will be 8-12 feet away from my PC. Are there cables that reach that far? Can you buy these cables at Best Buy/B&H?

I won't be using my HDTV to monitor my HDV footage on the PC very often. Only occasionally.

If the cables don't extend far enough, I could conceivably move the PC closer to the tv. Or I could rearrange my living room to put the two items closer together (definitely not my preference though).

What do forum readers think?

Robert Nagle

Robert Nagle · January 17th, 2006, 11:12 AM

One other thing. It looks like my motherboard doesn't have a PCI express slot.

Therefore, I might be stuck with AGP, unless I can figure out how to get it to work with my motherboard.

(sigh....)

Robert Nagle

Steven Gotz · January 17th, 2006, 11:47 AM

It is easy enough (if a bit expensive) to buy some Monster Cable Component extension cables. And I am in the same boat. No PCI Express slot. But I have started looking into buying a Dual processor, dual-core system. That should solve many problems, including a couple of PCI Express slots.

Robert Nagle · January 17th, 2006, 01:15 PM

Ok, I am still coping with the fact I'll be ditching my mobo :)

The reviews on the video cards sound good. Just wondering. Are there any other video cards (ie., cheaper) that are just as good and capable of supporting traditional VGA output as well as component output. I don't know what to look for on the specs for graphics cards.

For example, this http://www.directron.com/pvt70gudf.html

Still, the price tag for Matrox Parhelia APVe doesn't seem bad.

Robert Nagle

Steven Gotz · January 17th, 2006, 01:19 PM

I don't know that that card supports the WYSIWYG features that Matrox provides. It is a special thing that Matrox and the NVidia FX-540 do to allow the right HD output over the component jacks.

Robert Nagle · January 17th, 2006, 01:53 PM

Here's what one of the reviews says:

When you install the WYSIWYG PureVideo plug-in for Adobe Premiere Pro , Adobe After Effects , Photoshop , Autodesk Combustion and 3dsmax, along with NewTek Lightwave 3D , you can see your final output on an HDTV monitor without the necessity for looping your signal back through the 1394 port.

First, I'll be using Vegas 6, so this is not really an issue. Second, I don't understand the part about looping the signal back through a 1394 port. I'm connecting directly from the component out port on the card to component in on the HDTV. What does firewire have to do with anything? (Doesn't the footage exist on the PC?).

This sounds like I don't understand the workflow here.

Robert Nagle

Steven Gotz · January 17th, 2006, 07:39 PM

I think they mean taking the signal out the 1394 port to a D to A device. You get component right out of the card instead. And I don't know that it works with Vegas. I am sure DSE would know, but I don't. Ask in the Vegas forum perhaps?

Robert Nagle · January 27th, 2006, 03:03 PM

I called the matrox people, and they said it can't output to an HDTV with vegas 6.

Other ideas?

Rj

Scott Hayes · February 2nd, 2006, 11:27 AM

how about this...right now I am running a dp2.0G5 and two Dell 2005 monitors off the stock video card. if I add another video card with DVI, can
I just use a DVI-HDMI cable and set FCP to digital cinema desktop, using
my HD CRT as a third monitor? This way would be cheaper than buying
a decklink card.

January 16th, 2006, 10:36 AM	#1
Robert Nagle Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 29	viewing/editing with HDTV? how? why? Hi, I have a Sony HC1 HDV camera. I'm probably going to buy a HDTV soon. I don't have an HDTV, and would like to use a HDTV as both as a tv and a way to view HDV footage. For me, I can buy either a HDTV OR a HD computer monitor, but not both. I have a basic question about preparing HDV footage. Am I hooking up the HDTV to the PC or to the camera? In other words, is it necessary to "edit" the footage using a high def monitor (which in this case happens to be a TV screen)? (That would imply that I would need to upgrade my video card so it supports a HD signal, right?). Alternatively, I suppose I can hook up the HDTV to the camera, and show the HDV signal directly to the screen. Is that what most people mean when you talk about previewing the signal in HDV mode? That means that you are viewing the HDV signal either as "preprocessed" footage (i.e., before editing) or for viewing the signal as "postprocessed footage" (after editing and rendering). At what stage of the workflow are you using the High def monitor to check your footage? One other thing. My PC desk is quite a distance away from where the TV stand will be. (8-10 feet). Depending on what feedback I receive, I could put the tv closer or further (although at the expense of comfort). Do I need to have the TV close to the PC? If so, then what's the farthest it can go? Finally, do I need to buy a special video card to support output to a High Def television? Is it only a video card issue, or are there other hardware requirements I need to worry about (motherboard, OS)? Robert Nagle __________________ http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/

January 16th, 2006, 10:55 AM	#2
Robert Nagle Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 29	switching from PC monitor to HDTV monitor? here's another question: If I'm using my HDTV not only as a broadcast monitor but also to do live editing, that assumes that my video card can send signal to the HDMI port. I got that. But if I do this, I don't plan to connect my HDTV to my PC all the time, only during special occasions. That means I'd like to be able to switch back and forth from my HDTV (for editing only) and my old monitor/videocard (for everyday use). Do videocards which have an HDMI port also have a port for traditional computer monitors? Or do I need to have two separate video cards to do this? For my old videocard I have Asus V9520Magic/T/128, VD-V9520Magic-T128 Video Card, GeForce FX5200, 128MB DDR, AGP8X, TV-Out, Retail box. So that means it's taking the AGP port as well. Robert Nagle __________________ http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/

January 16th, 2006, 05:47 PM	#3
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	The Matrox Parhelia APVe has two regular PC monitor outputs and one Component output. Or, you can just use three PC monitors. The NVidia Quadro FX-540 has 2 ports, so either one for PC and one for TV or two for TV. Both require PCI Express slots. The problem with HDV is that you can not just connect the camera via the firewire and then get the component output. It does not work that way. So a special card is required. Personally, I find that editing on a LCD screen is so close to the LCD HDTV, I can wait until I export to M2T to see it on the HDTV. But then again, I don't do much fancy color correction. I will do what I suggested that you do as soon as I get a new PC. I am hoping that someone will sell me a dual processor system, where both CPUs are dual core - soon. I want a monster. But they don't sel them yet as far as I can tell. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

January 16th, 2006, 08:10 PM	#5
Robert Nagle Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 29	hooking up video ports with HDTV? Wow, I just realized I don't have a clue what's going on. Steven wrote: The problem with HDV is that you can not just connect the camera via the firewire and then get the component output. It does not work that way. So a special card is required. Just to clarify: 1. If I connected the HDTV to the Matrox Parhelia APVe graphics card, it would show the PC screen on the HDTV, right? If not, why? 2. Firewire. That's how I bring the footage into the PC, but after I do that, firewire is irrelevant, right? 3. Ok, I understand PCI Express cards (I think). I've been reading about HDMI vs. DVI. I assumed those are ports to the graphics card. What's the difference? 4. so I basically have two ways of viewing my footage: camcorder hooked up to HDTV (via component video?) AND PC hooked up to HDTV (via DVI port on the video card). Robert Nagle __________________ http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/

January 16th, 2006, 08:31 PM	#6
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	1. No, not unless you wanted it to. It shows the same material as the overlay. Read more about it here: http://www.matrox.com/mga/workstatio.../apve/home.cfm As to how? Heck, it's magic for all I care. All I know is that it works. 2. You use firewire to capture, and to write back to tape. But the right back requires some fancy processing first. It is not real time. The only thing realtime is AFTER the processing. 3. I will leave HDMI and DVI to the hardware wonks. 4. Not the DVI port. The Component output of the special card. Read the Videomaker review here: http://www.videomaker.com/scripts/ar...12071&GU=le929 __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

January 16th, 2006, 06:01 PM	#4
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Colfax, Monarch Computer(s) (I forget their name), and some other companies sell dual core dual Opteron systems (2 CPUs, 4 cores).

January 17th, 2006, 10:39 AM	#7
Robert Nagle Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 29	cables from HDTV to PC? Thanks. Helpful information. One more question. You say The Component Output port on the video card will feed the signal to the HDTV via the HDTV output adaptor. (see picture on http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/a...jsp?id=33839-0 ; I'm assuming that is the cable you use. ). Here's my issue. My TV will be 8-12 feet away from my PC. Are there cables that reach that far? Can you buy these cables at Best Buy/B&H? I won't be using my HDTV to monitor my HDV footage on the PC very often. Only occasionally. If the cables don't extend far enough, I could conceivably move the PC closer to the tv. Or I could rearrange my living room to put the two items closer together (definitely not my preference though). What do forum readers think? Robert Nagle __________________ http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/

January 17th, 2006, 11:12 AM	#8
Robert Nagle Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 29	PCI express & mobo? One other thing. It looks like my motherboard doesn't have a PCI express slot. Therefore, I might be stuck with AGP, unless I can figure out how to get it to work with my motherboard. (sigh....) Robert Nagle __________________ http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/

January 17th, 2006, 11:47 AM	#9
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	It is easy enough (if a bit expensive) to buy some Monster Cable Component extension cables. And I am in the same boat. No PCI Express slot. But I have started looking into buying a Dual processor, dual-core system. That should solve many problems, including a couple of PCI Express slots. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

January 17th, 2006, 01:15 PM	#10
Robert Nagle Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 29	graphics card for output to HDTV? Ok, I am still coping with the fact I'll be ditching my mobo :) The reviews on the video cards sound good. Just wondering. Are there any other video cards (ie., cheaper) that are just as good and capable of supporting traditional VGA output as well as component output. I don't know what to look for on the specs for graphics cards. For example, this http://www.directron.com/pvt70gudf.html Still, the price tag for Matrox Parhelia APVe doesn't seem bad. Robert Nagle __________________ http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/

January 17th, 2006, 01:19 PM	#11
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	I don't know that that card supports the WYSIWYG features that Matrox provides. It is a special thing that Matrox and the NVidia FX-540 do to allow the right HD output over the component jacks. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

January 17th, 2006, 01:53 PM	#12
Robert Nagle Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 29	Here's what one of the reviews says: When you install the WYSIWYG PureVideo plug-in for Adobe Premiere Pro , Adobe After Effects , Photoshop , Autodesk Combustion and 3dsmax, along with NewTek Lightwave 3D , you can see your final output on an HDTV monitor without the necessity for looping your signal back through the 1394 port. First, I'll be using Vegas 6, so this is not really an issue. Second, I don't understand the part about looping the signal back through a 1394 port. I'm connecting directly from the component out port on the card to component in on the HDTV. What does firewire have to do with anything? (Doesn't the footage exist on the PC?). This sounds like I don't understand the workflow here. Robert Nagle __________________ http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/

January 17th, 2006, 07:39 PM	#13
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	I think they mean taking the signal out the 1394 port to a D to A device. You get component right out of the card instead. And I don't know that it works with Vegas. I am sure DSE would know, but I don't. Ask in the Vegas forum perhaps? __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

January 27th, 2006, 03:03 PM	#14
Robert Nagle Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 29	Vegas + Parhelia (not possible) I called the matrox people, and they said it can't output to an HDTV with vegas 6. Other ideas? Rj __________________ http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/

February 2nd, 2006, 11:27 AM	#15
Scott Hayes Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 692	how about this...right now I am running a dp2.0G5 and two Dell 2005 monitors off the stock video card. if I add another video card with DVI, can I just use a DVI-HDMI cable and set FCP to digital cinema desktop, using my HD CRT as a third monitor? This way would be cheaper than buying a decklink card.