Monitoring with the HD100 at DVinfo.net

Michael Maier · August 20th, 2005, 06:54 AM

I read it's possible to use a SD monitor or even a TV setr with HD100 even when recording in HDV. My question is, what would be the disadvantages of using a SD instead of a HD monitor when shooting 720 25p?

Barry Green · August 20th, 2005, 01:50 PM

The disadvantage is that you wouldn't be seeing 2/3 of the detail in your frame! HDV's frame uses 2.67 times as many pixels as an SD DV frame. So all you'll see on the SD monitor is a downrezzed version. May be somewhat useful for framing, but useless for helping you determine focus, for example.

And NTSC is not HD, so the NTSC peculiarities of color imprecision etc. may taint your impression of what your footage actually looks like.

Tim Brown · August 20th, 2005, 03:27 PM

This might be of interest. Here is a portable HD LCD monitor that was drawing crowds at NAB http://www.erg-ventures.com/products/85/index.htm. Might be a great solution for the HD100.

Tim Baker · August 20th, 2005, 05:35 PM

Any idea on the cost of this monitor?

Tim Brown · August 20th, 2005, 05:51 PM

Here ya go Tim, http://www.promax.com/Products/Detail/16680.

Tim Baker · August 20th, 2005, 05:59 PM

Thanks for the heart attack...lol...that is some significant doh-ray-mee for an 8 inch monitor.

But may be worth it.

Does anyone know a cheaper alternative?

Luis Reggiardo · August 21st, 2005, 02:18 AM

You've got the 19" HD TV version from DELL, with HD Component inputs, and 1280x768 native. They are not as calibrated or dont have as many controls as that from that ERG model, but you can get one from $600 or less.

Notice that the 20" LCD version DOES not have HD component, just DVI and SD inputs, so you would need a converter from 720p HD to 720p DVI.

When ultra-detail and ultra-pro color monitoring is not needed ON THE SET/FIELD, the Dells would be your best options, they just let you see ALL the pixels and details, hence improvig your FOCUSING and framing.

I strongly DO NOT recommend them for broadcasting / NLE monitoring.

BUT... I was told that for "Collateral" they used the 23" from Apple, which nowadays are surprassed by the Dells. The reason was both portability and some scenes on the train where CRT ones would get interference from train's charges. And they used some on Star Wars set.

so... who knows... if they use them in Hollywood for some HDCAM productions...

L

Michael Maier · August 21st, 2005, 04:05 AM

Is there anything smaller out there, which doesn't cost an arm and a leg? 19" (unless it's a flat monitor) seems like a monster. Also, did they really trust LCD monitors in Collateral and SW for color and lighting? It seems to me, a LCD monitor wouldn't be any good for anything else but framing.

Boyd Ostroff · August 21st, 2005, 06:38 AM

Hey Luis - welcome to DVinfo. I was in Buenos Aires earlier this summer doing video at Teatro Colon :-)

I have a couple consumer LCD's which are OK, but certainly not pro monitors. One thing to be aware of; every consumer model I've seen overscans.

I have a 22" Samsung LTP-227W 1280x720 which is pretty nice. Has component, s-video, composite and and DVI. I also have an older Sony 17" 1280x768 widescreen monitor which has been discontinued. This screen is powered by an external AC brick, and when I got an external battery for my laptop I found that it can also be used to power the LCD monitor:

http://www.apcc.com/resource/include...base_sku=UPB80

Michael Maier · August 21st, 2005, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis Reggiardo

You've got the 19" HD TV version from DELL, with HD Component inputs, and 1280x768 native. They are not as calibrated or dont have as many controls as that from that ERG model, but you can get one from $600 or less.

Notice that the 20" LCD version DOES not have HD component, just DVI and SD inputs, so you would need a converter from 720p HD to 720p DVI.

Hey Luis, do you have the model numbers? Thanks.

Luis Reggiardo · August 21st, 2005, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

Hey Luis - welcome to DVinfo. I was in Buenos Aires earlier this summer doing video at Teatro Colon :-)

Hi Boyd! thanks for the welcoming. For what were you shooting in Colon Theatre?

About the MODELS:
19" LCD TV from DELL: W1900 (1280x768, 450nit, 600:1, component HD + DVI inputs) - $500-600
24" LCD Display from DELL: 2405FPW (1920x1200, 500 nits, 600:1, component HD+DVI inputs) - $800-1000

Both have many ways to display the 16:9/4:3 picture.

Then you have the ones from Apple which are worst and more expnsive.

About Collateral and Star Wars, yes, I checked out and both had worked with the Apple LCD displays with DVI (not even analog HD inputs).

With a good tripod you can easily have the 19" from DELL on your studio or field (if you have 110/220V near you or a power generator)

L

Craig Donaldson · August 21st, 2005, 03:26 PM

Just reading about monitor options for the hd-100.
What sort of quality would you be getting if you used a mac laptop as a monitor? I am planning a job where to cut down on kit we are going to use fcp5 to log and capture as we go. (and as a monitor) I know the log and capture window may not be full res but what about the mac its self, can it handle the pixels?

Michael Maier · August 21st, 2005, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis Reggiardo

About Collateral and Star Wars, yes, I checked out and both had worked with the Apple LCD displays with DVI (not even analog HD inputs).

Would you know how did they take the component or HD-SDI out to DVi? Just curious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis Reggiardo

With a good tripod you can easily have the 19" from DELL on your studio or field (if you have 110/220V near you or a power generator)

You could also use a marine or even a big car battery with an inverter to power it. :)

The 24" is a PC monitor and it would mabye take power from an external laptop battery. But I'm not sure.

Thanks Luis.

Boyd Ostroff · August 21st, 2005, 03:59 PM

Log and capture would be a really lousy monitor for just about everything in my experience. There's BTV Pro which is a really nice Mac shareware package that will give you a full screen monitor, scopes and hard drive recording. Unfortunately, it's only for DV and I don't know if there are any plans to upgrade it. I'm not aware of any other Mac solutions for this, but maybe one has come along recently.

http://www.bensoftware.com/btvpro.html

Boyd Ostroff · August 21st, 2005, 04:07 PM

Luis: I did the video projections for "Walkyria" at Teatro Colon in June. We used two 10,000 lumen Sanyo LCD projectors, one of them on a 16 meter wide black scrim from the front, and the other on an 8 meter wide rear screen. Quite a bit of the footage was 3d computer animation, and we planned to have more live footage but with labor and other problems at the theatre we had to scale this back due to lack of time.

Michael: I typed "component to dvi converter" into Google and got a lot of results, such as this:

http://store.a2zcable.com/viadcoorvgat.html
http://www.startech.com/ststore/item...ID2DVIDTV&mt=Z

August 20th, 2005, 06:54 AM	#1
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Monitoring with the HD100 I read it's possible to use a SD monitor or even a TV setr with HD100 even when recording in HDV. My question is, what would be the disadvantages of using a SD instead of a HD monitor when shooting 720 25p?

August 20th, 2005, 05:35 PM	#4
Tim Baker Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 28	About the ERG monitor Any idea on the cost of this monitor? __________________ "It is not the light at the end of the tunnel that we should seek...it is the courage to take the next step in the dark that we must find."

August 20th, 2005, 05:59 PM	#6
Tim Baker Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 28	Yikes... Thanks for the heart attack...lol...that is some significant doh-ray-mee for an 8 inch monitor. But may be worth it. Does anyone know a cheaper alternative? __________________ "It is not the light at the end of the tunnel that we should seek...it is the courage to take the next step in the dark that we must find."

August 21st, 2005, 02:18 AM	#7
Luis Reggiardo Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Posts: 37	You've got the 19" HD TV version from DELL, with HD Component inputs, and 1280x768 native. They are not as calibrated or dont have as many controls as that from that ERG model, but you can get one from $600 or less. Notice that the 20" LCD version DOES not have HD component, just DVI and SD inputs, so you would need a converter from 720p HD to 720p DVI. When ultra-detail and ultra-pro color monitoring is not needed ON THE SET/FIELD, the Dells would be your best options, they just let you see ALL the pixels and details, hence improvig your FOCUSING and framing. I strongly DO NOT recommend them for broadcasting / NLE monitoring. BUT... I was told that for "Collateral" they used the 23" from Apple, which nowadays are surprassed by the Dells. The reason was both portability and some scenes on the train where CRT ones would get interference from train's charges. And they used some on Star Wars set. so... who knows... if they use them in Hollywood for some HDCAM productions... L __________________ Luis Buenos Aires, Argentina Film Student Last edited by Luis Reggiardo; August 21st, 2005 at 09:39 PM.

August 21st, 2005, 03:26 PM	#12
Craig Donaldson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 80	monitor options Just reading about monitor options for the hd-100. What sort of quality would you be getting if you used a mac laptop as a monitor? I am planning a job where to cut down on kit we are going to use fcp5 to log and capture as we go. (and as a monitor) I know the log and capture window may not be full res but what about the mac its self, can it handle the pixels?

August 20th, 2005, 01:50 PM	#2
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The disadvantage is that you wouldn't be seeing 2/3 of the detail in your frame! HDV's frame uses 2.67 times as many pixels as an SD DV frame. So all you'll see on the SD monitor is a downrezzed version. May be somewhat useful for framing, but useless for helping you determine focus, for example. And NTSC is not HD, so the NTSC peculiarities of color imprecision etc. may taint your impression of what your footage actually looks like.

August 20th, 2005, 03:27 PM	#3
Tim Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 263	This might be of interest. Here is a portable HD LCD monitor that was drawing crowds at NAB http://www.erg-ventures.com/products/85/index.htm. Might be a great solution for the HD100.

August 20th, 2005, 05:51 PM	#5
Tim Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 263	Here ya go Tim, http://www.promax.com/Products/Detail/16680.

August 21st, 2005, 04:05 AM	#8
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Is there anything smaller out there, which doesn't cost an arm and a leg? 19" (unless it's a flat monitor) seems like a monster. Also, did they really trust LCD monitors in Collateral and SW for color and lighting? It seems to me, a LCD monitor wouldn't be any good for anything else but framing.

August 21st, 2005, 06:38 AM	#9
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Hey Luis - welcome to DVinfo. I was in Buenos Aires earlier this summer doing video at Teatro Colon :-) I have a couple consumer LCD's which are OK, but certainly not pro monitors. One thing to be aware of; every consumer model I've seen overscans. I have a 22" Samsung LTP-227W 1280x720 which is pretty nice. Has component, s-video, composite and and DVI. I also have an older Sony 17" 1280x768 widescreen monitor which has been discontinued. This screen is powered by an external AC brick, and when I got an external battery for my laptop I found that it can also be used to power the LCD monitor: http://www.apcc.com/resource/include...base_sku=UPB80

August 21st, 2005, 03:59 PM	#14
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Log and capture would be a really lousy monitor for just about everything in my experience. There's BTV Pro which is a really nice Mac shareware package that will give you a full screen monitor, scopes and hard drive recording. Unfortunately, it's only for DV and I don't know if there are any plans to upgrade it. I'm not aware of any other Mac solutions for this, but maybe one has come along recently. http://www.bensoftware.com/btvpro.html

August 21st, 2005, 04:07 PM	#15
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Luis: I did the video projections for "Walkyria" at Teatro Colon in June. We used two 10,000 lumen Sanyo LCD projectors, one of them on a 16 meter wide black scrim from the front, and the other on an 8 meter wide rear screen. Quite a bit of the footage was 3d computer animation, and we planned to have more live footage but with labor and other problems at the theatre we had to scale this back due to lack of time. Michael: I typed "component to dvi converter" into Google and got a lot of results, such as this: http://store.a2zcable.com/viadcoorvgat.html http://www.startech.com/ststore/item...ID2DVIDTV&mt=Z