Apple 27" display thoughts?

Jeff Troiano · March 18th, 2011, 06:42 AM

I was having the same questions as the original poster, was shopping around for a monitor. Dell had a 25% off sale on some of their ultra sharp monitors, and picked up (what I thought was a) good deal on their U3011. This thing is a beast, I love it. I had never seen a 30 inch monitor in person, and couldn't imagine the size of this thing. I had thought I might want 2 of these, but one, and my older 19 inch, next to it, for bins, and whatever else I need is a good setup for me.

Jeff Krepner · April 1st, 2011, 10:47 AM

I agree 100%. 30" is a real nice way to work. I'm glad I passed on the ACD and went with HP ZR30w.

I'm still shopping for a preview monitor, btw (for those of you that are fascinated enough to following this exciting post) to go along with MXO2 mini for preview out of FCP.

So far I'm leaning towards the Eizo CG243w (or 245w with auto calibration adapter built in) on Steve K's recommendation and from reading online, the HP DreamColor, or toying with the idea of a JVC 24" Broadcast model.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/706698-REG/Eizo_CG245W_BK_ColorEdge_CG245W_24_1_Widescreen.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/651901-REG/Eizo_CG243W_BK_ColorEdge_CG243W_24_1_Widescreen.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/646265-REG/HP_Hewlett_Packard_GV546A8_ABA_DreamColor_LP2480zx_24_Professional.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/724207-REG/JVC_DT_R24L4DU_DT_R24L4DU_24_Studio_Monitor.html
I suspect the IPS panels in the Eizo and HP are true 10-bit, whereas the JVC says 10-bit processing. But the JVC is interesting in that it also connects to a i1 Display for calibration and of course has lots of useful video features such as audio meters, blue-only, screen markers, and audio i/o in addition to being rugged enough to go out on the the occasion shoot. The model above this one also has waveform/vectorscope which is cool but getting way over my head at $3800 and probably more useful for location and production than post. The only benefit I can see to having scopes on the monitor is to verify the signal coming in from the i/o device matches with what the NLE's scopes are displaying.

Has anyone seen the JVC's? I guess I should start a new thread asking that.

Jeff

Steve Kalle · April 1st, 2011, 01:43 PM

Hey Jeff,

If you will only use the Mini, you are limited to its HDMI, which supports HDMI-to-DVI adapters. For color monitoring while editing, you want a monitor that has a low brightness which is why the Eizo's max out at 270 cd/m2. During calibration, the optimum brightness is 120 cd/m2. You should also realize that many cheap monitors fall apart when set to such a low brightness. For production use, you want a bright monitor to handle all the lights around it or outside which is why the JVC is 400 cd/m2. And yes, this JVC is only 8bit - under its specs, it lists 16.7 million colors.

I would check to see if the Matrox supports a HDMI to Displayport cable which is another way to get a 10bit signal to one of the 10bit monitors. However, the Mini only supports 8bit RGB or 10bit YCbCr. This means the HP cannot display 10bit with the Mini as it requires a 10bit Progressive RGB signal. Neither Eizo has this limitation. If you use Premiere Pro, the Mini can only output 1080i for a 1080 23.98p project.

For calibration, both Eizo's and HP are 'hardware' calibrated meaning you connect it to any computer and run the calibration. Then the calibration settings are stored within the monitor so you can move it to any other computer or device and use those calibration settings.

Jeff Krepner · April 1st, 2011, 04:59 PM

Hi Steve,

Thank you for the info on the monitor and brightness levels. I never thought about brightness levels in that way and would have read the specs and thought the JVC's higher rating was a plus for post work. You are really helping me connect the dots.

I remember reading in a previous post of yours that the Eizo does display 10bit YUV in addition to 10bit RGB, which if I understand correctly the HP doesn't since it is an older design. That is a big plus, but like you said I'm not 100% sure I can get 10bit from the Matrox Mini doing the HDMI-to-DVI or HDMI-to-Displayport route. Do you know if a 10bit YUV progressive signal from the Mini's HDMI port via HDMI-to-DVI adapter would work into the Eizo and still be 10bit? Obviously on the Dreamcolor I'd have to go out 8bit RGB progressive.

I'm not married to this Matrox Mini, btw. I bought it used at BH and still in the return range so I could look into other options if need be. I'm on FCP and I'm guessing that at some point Apple will get their stuff together and maybe catch up with Adobe so I'm not real amped to spend money on i/o boxes until I see what the new features are later this year. Either way I like the idea of having a nice display I can grow in to.

Last Eizo question--do you ever have the pleasure of viewing SD content? I assume with 1:1 it just uses 720x486 worth of the screen and leaves the rest black. Correct? My larger client still finishes in SD, though I typically keep it HD until the very end. It ends up on the web, so this is all sort of a moot point I suppose, but I want to know that I'm sending out accurate stuff.

Thanks
Jeff

Steve Kalle · April 1st, 2011, 06:38 PM

Unfortunately, DVI is only 8bit on all monitors I know of. I take that back - apparently, the new CG275W is 10bit on all ports (DVI, DP, mini-DP). And again, I found another monitor with 10bit DVI, the CG303W.

I have my Eizo connected via Displayport via the video card (Quadro) so I use it as a normal monitor; however, I use it with Premiere Pro CS5 which supports a full 10bit path in addition to allowing me to send either RGB or YUV signals.

For new I/O hardware coming soon, I bet most of it is based around Intel/Apple's new Thunderbolt. If you plan on upgrading your computer in the next year, it might not hurt to stick with the Mini for now and then see what is available. Otherwise, another current option is the Aja IO Express. I have no experience with this device but Aja has always been rock solid.

I can't find if the Eizo uses one-to-one pixel mapping but I would assume it does.

Jeff Krepner · April 2nd, 2011, 08:45 AM

The MXO2 mini seems to have many lovers and haters. I'm getting some odd audio issues and a quick trip to the Matrox forum indicates others are having issues too. I'll deal with it later and in the meantime I'll investigate other options. I have a Blackmagic Intensity Pro in an older machine, but that one is pretty long in the tooth.

On the Eizo, do you set the REC709 color space and then run calibration or is it a either/or thing?

I need to just download the manual to read over it I think.

Thanks again,
Jeff

Steve Kalle · April 2nd, 2011, 12:18 PM

With the Eizo, there are presets for several color spaces: Rec 709, sRGB, DCI and 2 more. For calibration, there are 'calibration' presets which allow you to calibrate and save for easy and quick changing. For me, I have Rec 709 and Rec 601 (aka SMPTE-C) saved as calibrations. So, you set it to one of the 'Calibration' presets and run the ColorNavigator software with your X-rite puck. There is also a 'Custom' preset that allows you to manually change settings in the monitor and save it.

Are you using a MacBook Pro with expresscard or a Mac Pro?

Jeff Krepner · April 2nd, 2011, 02:56 PM

Steve, I'm using a Macbook pro w/ expresscard at the moment since it is faster than my older Mac Pro tower. I'm guessing that if work keeps steady (and assuming they release a new FCP) I could see myself buying a new desktop by year's end.

Thanks

Jeff Krepner · April 6th, 2011, 09:54 AM

wow, the eizo CG243W is now under $2000 @ BH.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/651901-REG/Eizo_CG243W_BK_ColorEdge_CG243W_24_1_Widescreen.html

Steve Kalle · April 6th, 2011, 01:36 PM

WOW! That is almost a $400 drop since our last discussion. If you can afford it, jump all over it.

Btw, this happened after I bought my Eizo as well but it was about a month after so I couldn't bug Abel Cine to match B&H's price again.

If you can, order it from Abel Cine. They have always bent over backwards to match prices and exchange gear I didn't want. Only time they couldn't match price is on CF cards for a nanoFlash and Kino Diva 401s but I still ordered from AC.

March 18th, 2011, 06:42 AM	#16
Jeff Troiano Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 480	Re: Apple 27" display thoughts? I was having the same questions as the original poster, was shopping around for a monitor. Dell had a 25% off sale on some of their ultra sharp monitors, and picked up (what I thought was a) good deal on their U3011. This thing is a beast, I love it. I had never seen a 30 inch monitor in person, and couldn't imagine the size of this thing. I had thought I might want 2 of these, but one, and my older 19 inch, next to it, for bins, and whatever else I need is a good setup for me.

April 1st, 2011, 10:47 AM	#17
Jeff Krepner Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Timonium, MD Posts: 142	Re: Apple 27" display thoughts? I agree 100%. 30" is a real nice way to work. I'm glad I passed on the ACD and went with HP ZR30w. I'm still shopping for a preview monitor, btw (for those of you that are fascinated enough to following this exciting post) to go along with MXO2 mini for preview out of FCP. So far I'm leaning towards the Eizo CG243w (or 245w with auto calibration adapter built in) on Steve K's recommendation and from reading online, the HP DreamColor, or toying with the idea of a JVC 24" Broadcast model. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/706698-REG/Eizo_CG245W_BK_ColorEdge_CG245W_24_1_Widescreen.html http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/651901-REG/Eizo_CG243W_BK_ColorEdge_CG243W_24_1_Widescreen.html http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/646265-REG/HP_Hewlett_Packard_GV546A8_ABA_DreamColor_LP2480zx_24_Professional.html http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/724207-REG/JVC_DT_R24L4DU_DT_R24L4DU_24_Studio_Monitor.html I suspect the IPS panels in the Eizo and HP are true 10-bit, whereas the JVC says 10-bit processing. But the JVC is interesting in that it also connects to a i1 Display for calibration and of course has lots of useful video features such as audio meters, blue-only, screen markers, and audio i/o in addition to being rugged enough to go out on the the occasion shoot. The model above this one also has waveform/vectorscope which is cool but getting way over my head at $3800 and probably more useful for location and production than post. The only benefit I can see to having scopes on the monitor is to verify the signal coming in from the i/o device matches with what the NLE's scopes are displaying. Has anyone seen the JVC's? I guess I should start a new thread asking that. Jeff

April 1st, 2011, 01:43 PM	#18
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Re: Apple 27" display thoughts? Hey Jeff, If you will only use the Mini, you are limited to its HDMI, which supports HDMI-to-DVI adapters. For color monitoring while editing, you want a monitor that has a low brightness which is why the Eizo's max out at 270 cd/m2. During calibration, the optimum brightness is 120 cd/m2. You should also realize that many cheap monitors fall apart when set to such a low brightness. For production use, you want a bright monitor to handle all the lights around it or outside which is why the JVC is 400 cd/m2. And yes, this JVC is only 8bit - under its specs, it lists 16.7 million colors. I would check to see if the Matrox supports a HDMI to Displayport cable which is another way to get a 10bit signal to one of the 10bit monitors. However, the Mini only supports 8bit RGB or 10bit YCbCr. This means the HP cannot display 10bit with the Mini as it requires a 10bit Progressive RGB signal. Neither Eizo has this limitation. If you use Premiere Pro, the Mini can only output 1080i for a 1080 23.98p project. For calibration, both Eizo's and HP are 'hardware' calibrated meaning you connect it to any computer and run the calibration. Then the calibration settings are stored within the monitor so you can move it to any other computer or device and use those calibration settings.

April 1st, 2011, 04:59 PM	#19
Jeff Krepner Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Timonium, MD Posts: 142	Re: Apple 27" display thoughts? Hi Steve, Thank you for the info on the monitor and brightness levels. I never thought about brightness levels in that way and would have read the specs and thought the JVC's higher rating was a plus for post work. You are really helping me connect the dots. I remember reading in a previous post of yours that the Eizo does display 10bit YUV in addition to 10bit RGB, which if I understand correctly the HP doesn't since it is an older design. That is a big plus, but like you said I'm not 100% sure I can get 10bit from the Matrox Mini doing the HDMI-to-DVI or HDMI-to-Displayport route. Do you know if a 10bit YUV progressive signal from the Mini's HDMI port via HDMI-to-DVI adapter would work into the Eizo and still be 10bit? Obviously on the Dreamcolor I'd have to go out 8bit RGB progressive. I'm not married to this Matrox Mini, btw. I bought it used at BH and still in the return range so I could look into other options if need be. I'm on FCP and I'm guessing that at some point Apple will get their stuff together and maybe catch up with Adobe so I'm not real amped to spend money on i/o boxes until I see what the new features are later this year. Either way I like the idea of having a nice display I can grow in to. Last Eizo question--do you ever have the pleasure of viewing SD content? I assume with 1:1 it just uses 720x486 worth of the screen and leaves the rest black. Correct? My larger client still finishes in SD, though I typically keep it HD until the very end. It ends up on the web, so this is all sort of a moot point I suppose, but I want to know that I'm sending out accurate stuff. Thanks Jeff

April 1st, 2011, 06:38 PM	#20
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Re: Apple 27" display thoughts? Unfortunately, DVI is only 8bit on all monitors I know of. I take that back - apparently, the new CG275W is 10bit on all ports (DVI, DP, mini-DP). And again, I found another monitor with 10bit DVI, the CG303W. I have my Eizo connected via Displayport via the video card (Quadro) so I use it as a normal monitor; however, I use it with Premiere Pro CS5 which supports a full 10bit path in addition to allowing me to send either RGB or YUV signals. For new I/O hardware coming soon, I bet most of it is based around Intel/Apple's new Thunderbolt. If you plan on upgrading your computer in the next year, it might not hurt to stick with the Mini for now and then see what is available. Otherwise, another current option is the Aja IO Express. I have no experience with this device but Aja has always been rock solid. I can't find if the Eizo uses one-to-one pixel mapping but I would assume it does.

April 2nd, 2011, 08:45 AM	#21
Jeff Krepner Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Timonium, MD Posts: 142	Re: Apple 27" display thoughts? The MXO2 mini seems to have many lovers and haters. I'm getting some odd audio issues and a quick trip to the Matrox forum indicates others are having issues too. I'll deal with it later and in the meantime I'll investigate other options. I have a Blackmagic Intensity Pro in an older machine, but that one is pretty long in the tooth. On the Eizo, do you set the REC709 color space and then run calibration or is it a either/or thing? I need to just download the manual to read over it I think. Thanks again, Jeff

April 2nd, 2011, 12:18 PM	#22
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Re: Apple 27" display thoughts? With the Eizo, there are presets for several color spaces: Rec 709, sRGB, DCI and 2 more. For calibration, there are 'calibration' presets which allow you to calibrate and save for easy and quick changing. For me, I have Rec 709 and Rec 601 (aka SMPTE-C) saved as calibrations. So, you set it to one of the 'Calibration' presets and run the ColorNavigator software with your X-rite puck. There is also a 'Custom' preset that allows you to manually change settings in the monitor and save it. Are you using a MacBook Pro with expresscard or a Mac Pro?

April 2nd, 2011, 02:56 PM	#23
Jeff Krepner Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Timonium, MD Posts: 142	Re: Apple 27" display thoughts? Steve, I'm using a Macbook pro w/ expresscard at the moment since it is faster than my older Mac Pro tower. I'm guessing that if work keeps steady (and assuming they release a new FCP) I could see myself buying a new desktop by year's end. Thanks

April 6th, 2011, 09:54 AM	#24
Jeff Krepner Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Timonium, MD Posts: 142	Re: Apple 27" display thoughts? wow, the eizo CG243W is now under $2000 @ BH. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/651901-REG/Eizo_CG243W_BK_ColorEdge_CG243W_24_1_Widescreen.html

April 6th, 2011, 01:36 PM	#25
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Re: Apple 27" display thoughts? WOW! That is almost a $400 drop since our last discussion. If you can afford it, jump all over it. Btw, this happened after I bought my Eizo as well but it was about a month after so I couldn't bug Abel Cine to match B&H's price again. If you can, order it from Abel Cine. They have always bent over backwards to match prices and exchange gear I didn't want. Only time they couldn't match price is on CF cards for a nanoFlash and Kino Diva 401s but I still ordered from AC.