NTSC Monitor Solution at DVinfo.net

Chris Carera · December 14th, 2004, 01:25 PM

I want to get a basic, but nice, video-editing setup to make DV-based shortfilms. I'm already going to get a 20" Apple Cinema display and a nicer computer (PC). But I was wondering about an NTSC video monitor...

I know that video looks different on television than it does on your computer monitor, and that's what external monitors are for, like this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=327582&is=REG

But what's the difference between a monitor like this one:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=302342&is=REG

...and a tv, like this:
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...3%22to24%22TVs

And would I be able to use a TV like the one on the last link for a decent monitor?

Thanks,
Chris

Marco Leavitt · December 14th, 2004, 02:11 PM

I've wondered this too. They're both Trinitron tubes. Note that the PVM-14L1 specifies P-22 phosphors. This is supposed to be a big deal, but who's to say that the Wega doesn't also? The 14L1 also is 16:9 switchable. Also, note that it only has composite and s-video inputs -- no RCA.

Chris Carera · December 14th, 2004, 03:17 PM

If I recall correctly, RCA is the same thing as composite, and the Sony site says it has one front and one back, in the specs.

Marco Leavitt · December 14th, 2004, 03:24 PM

Ah, you're correct. I meant to type component. I was referring to the PVM-14L1. It has no inputs on the front, and component and s-video inputs in the back. Don't know about the Wega.

Boyd Ostroff · December 14th, 2004, 03:26 PM

Now come on, do you really think there isn't a quality difference between a $5,300 production monitor and a $180 consumer TV?...

I would suggest you stay away from the 13" WEGA based on some personal experience with the previous model which I got about 4 years ago. I have been happy with my other WEGA TV's, both are CRT 4:3 sets - a 27" and a 20". As you go down in size the picture quality gets progressively worse however. My 20" set doesn't look nearly as good as my 27", and the 13" that I used to have was really pretty terrible. It seems that the phosphor dots are the same size on each of these screens, so the smaller the CRT the less the resolution. The image on the 13" was really very coarse. Like all consumer TV's it overscans, meaning you won't see the full frame.

Aside from that, the power supply failed right on schedule after the warranty expired. Also read those specs carefully. The little WEGA only has COMPONENT (via 3 RCA jacks) and COMPOSITE (one RCA jack) but NO S-VIDEO. Unless you have a deck or video card that supports component then you will have to use composite which is really not going to give you a very clean image. Most prosumer camcorders and decks have s-video output but NOT component for some reason.

I'll leave it to others to explain why you should get a monitor instead of a TV, but if for some reason you want to use a 13" TV, then I'd look at some other brands. They probably won't be any better, but will be less expensive. I think you're paying a high premium for the Sony WEGA trademark in this case. Like I said, the larger WEGA's seem pretty nice but that 13" really did not impress me. Go to a local electronics store where you can compare with other small TV's if you decide to go this route.

Walter Graff · December 14th, 2004, 04:57 PM

FIrst off a monitor for an edit system is more than good, it's a necessity. And there is a big difference. Better color rendition, better bias circuitry, etc. If you are going to get yourself a monitor get one designed to be a monitor. If you can do with an 8 inch monitor get a Sony 8041. With it you can use it both for edit and take it in the field.

Chris Carera · December 14th, 2004, 07:10 PM

Thanks, guys.

It's not that I thought that there isn't a difference; I just wanted to know what the differences actually were. I'm probably not going to waste my time with the tv.

What do you guys think of the DV Rack software? Would I be able to use that in lieu of a monitor, or do I need a monitor that can be on at the same time as my editing setup?

You've been a great help; this is definitely one of the best places online for practical advice and civil discussion.

Walter Graff · December 14th, 2004, 07:17 PM

You've already got a progressive computer monitor to see the output on. I would want an interlaced tube Tv to see just what it will look like in the real world.

Chris Carera · December 15th, 2004, 03:07 PM

The main issue for me is that I actually don't have a TV of any kind right now, and I was reading things similar to what Glenn was saying about using a TV to do a basic check your video, since it displays the images differently.

I figured while getting a tv, I might as well get a good one, and since some of the Sony TVs use 'Trinitron' (as do their professional video monitors), I figured these TVs might be a bit better for my needs.

So, my question now is, would the TV be a complete waste of money? Or will it be useful to a certain limited extent?

Also..I have been looking into pro video monitors...but I'd like to know what specifically I need to look for (specs...brands, etc).

Thanks,
Chris

Glenn Chan · December 15th, 2004, 03:34 PM

Any TV is going to be many times better than no TV, since it will show:
interlace flicker - titles and still frames can flicker if you're not careful.
Chroma crawl (with composite connection) - the rainbow moire stuff sometimes shows up on titles and fine detail.
Full resolution - Final Cut for example does not show full resolution all the time. Final Cut usually shows one field.
(More accurate colors - your computer monitor is likely wrong)

Pro monitors:

Features to look for:
SMPTE C phosphors - these are the standardized phosphors for color reference/accuracy.
NTSC/PAL
under/overscan - lets you see either cropped or full video. Useful, especially for a field monitor.
blue gun only - helps check the monitor's calibration
automatic calibration - convenient feature, lets the monitor calibrate itself automatically to NTSC bars and tone.
beem feedback circuitry - supposedly helps the monitor maintain its color accuracy.
switchable aspect ratio 16:9/4:3 - useful if you work with 16:9 material.
Loop-through inputs - useful if you want to insert the monitor between a camera and a video mixer (or another monitor).

size- small 8" are easy to lug into the field. Larger monitors have better resolution and are better for clients (further viewing distance, looks more impressive).
component/SDI inputs if you need them.

JVC, Sony, and Ikegami make NTSC monitors. There are also industrial-quality monitors that you may want to look at. Example:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=162475&is=REG

More info:
http://www.uemforums.com/2pop/ubbthr...b=5&o=&fpart=1
2-pop forum thread on NTSC monitors.

December 14th, 2004, 01:25 PM	#1
Chris Carera New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas Posts: 15	NTSC Monitor Solution I want to get a basic, but nice, video-editing setup to make DV-based shortfilms. I'm already going to get a 20" Apple Cinema display and a nicer computer (PC). But I was wondering about an NTSC video monitor... I know that video looks different on television than it does on your computer monitor, and that's what external monitors are for, like this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=327582&is=REG But what's the difference between a monitor like this one: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=302342&is=REG ...and a tv, like this: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...3%22to24%22TVs And would I be able to use a TV like the one on the last link for a decent monitor? Thanks, Chris

December 14th, 2004, 02:11 PM	#2
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I've wondered this too. They're both Trinitron tubes. Note that the PVM-14L1 specifies P-22 phosphors. This is supposed to be a big deal, but who's to say that the Wega doesn't also? The 14L1 also is 16:9 switchable. Also, note that it only has composite and s-video inputs -- no RCA.

December 14th, 2004, 03:17 PM	#3
Chris Carera New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas Posts: 15	If I recall correctly, RCA is the same thing as composite, and the Sony site says it has one front and one back, in the specs.

December 14th, 2004, 03:24 PM	#4
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Ah, you're correct. I meant to type component. I was referring to the PVM-14L1. It has no inputs on the front, and component and s-video inputs in the back. Don't know about the Wega.

December 14th, 2004, 03:26 PM	#5
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,797	Now come on, do you really think there isn't a quality difference between a $5,300 production monitor and a $180 consumer TV?... I would suggest you stay away from the 13" WEGA based on some personal experience with the previous model which I got about 4 years ago. I have been happy with my other WEGA TV's, both are CRT 4:3 sets - a 27" and a 20". As you go down in size the picture quality gets progressively worse however. My 20" set doesn't look nearly as good as my 27", and the 13" that I used to have was really pretty terrible. It seems that the phosphor dots are the same size on each of these screens, so the smaller the CRT the less the resolution. The image on the 13" was really very coarse. Like all consumer TV's it overscans, meaning you won't see the full frame. Aside from that, the power supply failed right on schedule after the warranty expired. Also read those specs carefully. The little WEGA only has COMPONENT (via 3 RCA jacks) and COMPOSITE (one RCA jack) but NO S-VIDEO. Unless you have a deck or video card that supports component then you will have to use composite which is really not going to give you a very clean image. Most prosumer camcorders and decks have s-video output but NOT component for some reason. I'll leave it to others to explain why you should get a monitor instead of a TV, but if for some reason you want to use a 13" TV, then I'd look at some other brands. They probably won't be any better, but will be less expensive. I think you're paying a high premium for the Sony WEGA trademark in this case. Like I said, the larger WEGA's seem pretty nice but that 13" really did not impress me. Go to a local electronics store where you can compare with other small TV's if you decide to go this route.

December 14th, 2004, 04:57 PM	#6
Walter Graff Hellgate Pictures, Inc. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 124	FIrst off a monitor for an edit system is more than good, it's a necessity. And there is a big difference. Better color rendition, better bias circuitry, etc. If you are going to get yourself a monitor get one designed to be a monitor. If you can do with an 8 inch monitor get a Sony 8041. With it you can use it both for edit and take it in the field.

December 14th, 2004, 07:10 PM	#7
Chris Carera New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas Posts: 15	Thanks, guys. It's not that I thought that there isn't a difference; I just wanted to know what the differences actually were. I'm probably not going to waste my time with the tv. What do you guys think of the DV Rack software? Would I be able to use that in lieu of a monitor, or do I need a monitor that can be on at the same time as my editing setup? You've been a great help; this is definitely one of the best places online for practical advice and civil discussion.

December 14th, 2004, 07:17 PM	#8
Walter Graff Hellgate Pictures, Inc. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 124	You've already got a progressive computer monitor to see the output on. I would want an interlaced tube Tv to see just what it will look like in the real world.

December 15th, 2004, 03:07 PM	#9
Chris Carera New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas Posts: 15	The main issue for me is that I actually don't have a TV of any kind right now, and I was reading things similar to what Glenn was saying about using a TV to do a basic check your video, since it displays the images differently. I figured while getting a tv, I might as well get a good one, and since some of the Sony TVs use 'Trinitron' (as do their professional video monitors), I figured these TVs might be a bit better for my needs. So, my question now is, would the TV be a complete waste of money? Or will it be useful to a certain limited extent? Also..I have been looking into pro video monitors...but I'd like to know what specifically I need to look for (specs...brands, etc). Thanks, Chris

December 15th, 2004, 03:34 PM	#10
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Any TV is going to be many times better than no TV, since it will show: interlace flicker - titles and still frames can flicker if you're not careful. Chroma crawl (with composite connection) - the rainbow moire stuff sometimes shows up on titles and fine detail. Full resolution - Final Cut for example does not show full resolution all the time. Final Cut usually shows one field. (More accurate colors - your computer monitor is likely wrong) Pro monitors: Features to look for: SMPTE C phosphors - these are the standardized phosphors for color reference/accuracy. NTSC/PAL under/overscan - lets you see either cropped or full video. Useful, especially for a field monitor. blue gun only - helps check the monitor's calibration automatic calibration - convenient feature, lets the monitor calibrate itself automatically to NTSC bars and tone. beem feedback circuitry - supposedly helps the monitor maintain its color accuracy. switchable aspect ratio 16:9/4:3 - useful if you work with 16:9 material. Loop-through inputs - useful if you want to insert the monitor between a camera and a video mixer (or another monitor). size- small 8" are easy to lug into the field. Larger monitors have better resolution and are better for clients (further viewing distance, looks more impressive). component/SDI inputs if you need them. JVC, Sony, and Ikegami make NTSC monitors. There are also industrial-quality monitors that you may want to look at. Example: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=162475&is=REG More info: http://www.uemforums.com/2pop/ubbthr...b=5&o=&fpart=1 2-pop forum thread on NTSC monitors.