How do you set up a PAL monitor?! at DVinfo.net

Bogdan Apetri · July 19th, 2004, 08:36 AM

I know about setting up a NTSC monitor, blue check, contrast, brightness, pluge and all that.

How do you set up a PAL monitor?...

There are only the color bars, that's all, nothing else. What is the principle and how do you do it? Is there a lesser level of accuracy with a PAL monitor compared to an NTSC one? I couldn't find any articles on the net.

Thanks!
Bogdan

Patrick King · July 19th, 2004, 08:42 AM

Bogdan,

It appears you have a pretty codified approach to setting up an NTSC monitor. For us non-PAL folks, could you share it?

Maybe that'll serve as a good starting point for other folks to say 'skip step 2 with PAL', and in the meantime give others a good NTSC monitor setup checklist. I'd be appreciative and I'm sure others would also.

Bogdan Apetri · July 19th, 2004, 02:06 PM

Patrick,

Too ironic for this place, maybe? I thought this forum is for people trying to help each other. But a joke or two never hurts...

Anyway, as for my "codified" approach to setting up a PAL monitor, I didn't want to go through all the phases (contrast set to midpoint, chroma all the way down, adjust the pluge for brightness, adjust the 100unit white bar for contrast, use blue-only for hue etc ) since I assumed everyone is pretty familiar with it (in this order or not). I admit it seemed perhaps all over the place, just mentioning some randon steps.

My question, I guess: is there any difference between setting up a PAL monitor and a NTSC one? I am only asking because, like I said, on a PAL monitor there are only the long color bars, no pluge for brighness, no more than one white bar and so on. I'm not sure, maybe the pluge is not there because there is no setup in PAL?! I don't know.

Anyone who can help me, thanks.

Patrick, I find you a very fuuuuuuuuuuuuny guy. Really. I'm sure other people would also.

Do I seem pissed? I'm not. I love you guys.

Patrick King · July 19th, 2004, 02:35 PM

Bogdan,

Mea culpa!

I really wasn't trying to be a smart-aleck. I just don't know how to properly set-up a NTSC monitor and was hoping to learn. We have several at a rather large church I attend where I think the salesman saw us coming and sold us real NTSC monitors for the control room. And to this day they all look different, though we've tried several times to adjust them. Alas, we're all amateurs, and it shows.

I can gather from your reply that you think I didn't take your request seriously and should be able to find the NTSC setup discussion elsewhere, so I will.

I do apologize if I aggravated you with my request.

Patrick

Bogdan Apetri · July 19th, 2004, 02:45 PM

Patrick,

Now it's my time to apologize. Hmmm... I really thought your reply was very ironic. But I was not upset, anyway.

I will look up right now for an article on the internet on setting up the monitors correctly, with pictures and so on so it would be easier than me explaining.

I'll get back to you in a minute.

Sorry again, Patrick. How many monitors did you bought in total for the church? Do you use them for security? In that case, maybe setting them up perfectly won't matter that much.

Bogdan Apetri · July 19th, 2004, 02:47 PM

Patrick,

Here's a pretty good one.

http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.htm

Take a look when you have a minute and ask me any questions.

Take care!
Bogdan

Patrick King · July 19th, 2004, 02:52 PM

Bogdan,

We have seven 500+ line NTSC studio monitors. One for each of the three cameras, one for VCR/PC input, one for the Preview feed, one for the Program feed, and one for the output feed (after its remixed in the A/V board, but before its fed to the cable company for live broadcast), and then an eighth cheapo Walmart special 27" TV which shows us what the cable company is actually broadcasting.

We've quit fiddling with the set-up because we figured out that the Preview feed was the closest to what the Cable company was putting out and we just ensure that white balance and camera setup looks good on that monitor. Pretty low-tech rednecks with some hi-tech gear.

If you find something on setup I'd appreciate it, but if not, just know I wasn't trying to mess with you, just ignorant.

Patrick

Bogdan Apetri · July 21st, 2004, 06:36 AM

Patrick,

Was the articles helpful?

And, anybody has an answer to my original question, how to set up a PAL monitor?

Rob Lohman · August 1st, 2004, 03:58 PM

Bogdan: I've asked the question a couple of times before and
never got an answer either. No luck on the web as well. It's just
like no-one calibrates, knows howto calibrate, or wants to share
how to calibrate a PAL monitor.

Something fishy is going on!

Giroud Francois · August 1st, 2004, 05:10 PM

fortunately, PAL has no tint and Hue settings, so calibration is pretty easy (unless you fiddle with the RGB gun).
It is probably the same has for all monitor.
Black must be black and white white.
If you really need for real values, you can use an electronic calibrator.
The most difficult in monitor is the contrast, that can easily set up using a grey level bar.
and the final test is to check with skin tones.
Anyway with video, you are never sure of what you get since from the color balance of the camera to the correction given at postproduction time there is a large place for creativity.

Wayne Orr · August 1st, 2004, 08:12 PM

I think I know the answer to the original question, but you have an expert member on this forum in Andre De Clercq.
Why not drop him a line and get the straight dope?
andre.declercq@pandora.be

Wayne Orr, SOC

Andre De Clercq · August 2nd, 2004, 12:47 PM

Bogdan, indeed the popular SMPTE testpattern for NTSC with the pluge, hue/saturation verification,...doesn't exist for Pal. There are however many specialised testpattern generators for visual/optical PAL testing available (Rhode und Shwarz, Philips,..) which include colorbars, grayscale , pluge, delay line adjust(inverted U/V), interlace test, 1T and 20T testing, Y/C delay test, and much more. I would advise you to look at www.rhode-shwarz.com to start with and look for the SSF an SAF generators (or more recent versions). Most parameters that can be tested visually are described there. If you have specific questions go ahead.

Andre De Clercq · August 2nd, 2004, 12:49 PM

Sorry, www.rhode-schwarz.com

July 19th, 2004, 08:36 AM	#1
Bogdan Apetri Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York, USA Posts: 117	How do you set up a PAL monitor?! I know about setting up a NTSC monitor, blue check, contrast, brightness, pluge and all that. How do you set up a PAL monitor?... There are only the color bars, that's all, nothing else. What is the principle and how do you do it? Is there a lesser level of accuracy with a PAL monitor compared to an NTSC one? I couldn't find any articles on the net. Thanks! Bogdan

August 1st, 2004, 03:58 PM	#9
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Bogdan: I've asked the question a couple of times before and never got an answer either. No luck on the web as well. It's just like no-one calibrates, knows howto calibrate, or wants to share how to calibrate a PAL monitor. Something fishy is going on! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 19th, 2004, 08:42 AM	#2
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	Bogdan, It appears you have a pretty codified approach to setting up an NTSC monitor. For us non-PAL folks, could you share it? Maybe that'll serve as a good starting point for other folks to say 'skip step 2 with PAL', and in the meantime give others a good NTSC monitor setup checklist. I'd be appreciative and I'm sure others would also.

July 19th, 2004, 02:06 PM	#3
Bogdan Apetri Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York, USA Posts: 117	Patrick, Too ironic for this place, maybe? I thought this forum is for people trying to help each other. But a joke or two never hurts... Anyway, as for my "codified" approach to setting up a PAL monitor, I didn't want to go through all the phases (contrast set to midpoint, chroma all the way down, adjust the pluge for brightness, adjust the 100unit white bar for contrast, use blue-only for hue etc ) since I assumed everyone is pretty familiar with it (in this order or not). I admit it seemed perhaps all over the place, just mentioning some randon steps. My question, I guess: is there any difference between setting up a PAL monitor and a NTSC one? I am only asking because, like I said, on a PAL monitor there are only the long color bars, no pluge for brighness, no more than one white bar and so on. I'm not sure, maybe the pluge is not there because there is no setup in PAL?! I don't know. Anyone who can help me, thanks. Patrick, I find you a very fuuuuuuuuuuuuny guy. Really. I'm sure other people would also. Do I seem pissed? I'm not. I love you guys.

July 19th, 2004, 02:35 PM	#4
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	Bogdan, Mea culpa! I really wasn't trying to be a smart-aleck. I just don't know how to properly set-up a NTSC monitor and was hoping to learn. We have several at a rather large church I attend where I think the salesman saw us coming and sold us real NTSC monitors for the control room. And to this day they all look different, though we've tried several times to adjust them. Alas, we're all amateurs, and it shows. I can gather from your reply that you think I didn't take your request seriously and should be able to find the NTSC setup discussion elsewhere, so I will. I do apologize if I aggravated you with my request. Patrick

July 19th, 2004, 02:45 PM	#5
Bogdan Apetri Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York, USA Posts: 117	Patrick, Now it's my time to apologize. Hmmm... I really thought your reply was very ironic. But I was not upset, anyway. I will look up right now for an article on the internet on setting up the monitors correctly, with pictures and so on so it would be easier than me explaining. I'll get back to you in a minute. Sorry again, Patrick. How many monitors did you bought in total for the church? Do you use them for security? In that case, maybe setting them up perfectly won't matter that much.

July 19th, 2004, 02:47 PM	#6
Bogdan Apetri Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York, USA Posts: 117	Patrick, Here's a pretty good one. http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.htm Take a look when you have a minute and ask me any questions. Take care! Bogdan

July 19th, 2004, 02:52 PM	#7
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	Bogdan, We have seven 500+ line NTSC studio monitors. One for each of the three cameras, one for VCR/PC input, one for the Preview feed, one for the Program feed, and one for the output feed (after its remixed in the A/V board, but before its fed to the cable company for live broadcast), and then an eighth cheapo Walmart special 27" TV which shows us what the cable company is actually broadcasting. We've quit fiddling with the set-up because we figured out that the Preview feed was the closest to what the Cable company was putting out and we just ensure that white balance and camera setup looks good on that monitor. Pretty low-tech rednecks with some hi-tech gear. If you find something on setup I'd appreciate it, but if not, just know I wasn't trying to mess with you, just ignorant. Patrick

July 21st, 2004, 06:36 AM	#8
Bogdan Apetri Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York, USA Posts: 117	Patrick, Was the articles helpful? And, anybody has an answer to my original question, how to set up a PAL monitor?

August 1st, 2004, 05:10 PM	#10
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	fortunately, PAL has no tint and Hue settings, so calibration is pretty easy (unless you fiddle with the RGB gun). It is probably the same has for all monitor. Black must be black and white white. If you really need for real values, you can use an electronic calibrator. The most difficult in monitor is the contrast, that can easily set up using a grey level bar. and the final test is to check with skin tones. Anyway with video, you are never sure of what you get since from the color balance of the camera to the correction given at postproduction time there is a large place for creativity.

August 1st, 2004, 08:12 PM	#11
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	I think I know the answer to the original question, but you have an expert member on this forum in Andre De Clercq. Why not drop him a line and get the straight dope? andre.declercq@pandora.be Wayne Orr, SOC

August 2nd, 2004, 12:47 PM	#12
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	Bogdan, indeed the popular SMPTE testpattern for NTSC with the pluge, hue/saturation verification,...doesn't exist for Pal. There are however many specialised testpattern generators for visual/optical PAL testing available (Rhode und Shwarz, Philips,..) which include colorbars, grayscale , pluge, delay line adjust(inverted U/V), interlace test, 1T and 20T testing, Y/C delay test, and much more. I would advise you to look at www.rhode-shwarz.com to start with and look for the SSF an SAF generators (or more recent versions). Most parameters that can be tested visually are described there. If you have specific questions go ahead.

August 2nd, 2004, 12:49 PM	#13
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	Sorry, www.rhode-schwarz.com