Proper LCD calibration for video colorgrading

Mark Keck · April 28th, 2009, 06:23 PM

Hi Nik,

You're not calibrating the card, you're calibrating the monitor (TV in my case). So I've got some more homework for you :-) Head over to avsforum.com and read up on calibrating HDTV's.

I use an i1 with the HCFR software on a laptop. I've generated my own test patterns in my NLE (FCP) that are output to the monitor (HDTV) via the BM Intensity. It works reasonably well. If you rather use a comercial product rather than HCFR, google "Calman". Be prepared for sticker shock... but at least the www has some very good info on it.

Bill... I'm still looking for the step-by-step process for HCFR but no luck yet. I guess I'm goinig to have to write it up myself. Can anyone loan me a spare couple of hours???

Mark

Bill Ravens · April 28th, 2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Keck

Hi Nik,

Bill... I'm still looking for the step-by-step process for HCFR but no luck yet. I guess I'm goinig to have to write it up myself. Can anyone loan me a spare couple of hours???

Mark

Hey Mark...

Thanx for wanting to go thru the effort. While there are many features I haven't mastered, I've figured out enough to set up my displays by using the Luma and RGB plots while adjusting my videocard RGB and gamma parameters. I've come up with some pretty nice looking displays, significantly different from the defaults.

Quite astonishing, actually.

Mark Keck · April 28th, 2009, 07:28 PM

Glad to here it Bill. What display are you using???

Mark

Bill Ravens · April 28th, 2009, 07:43 PM

Mark...

Laptop : Geforce Go 7900gs with a samsung 205BW LCD
Workstation: Quadro FX1700 with two Sony LCD

Nik Skjoth · April 28th, 2009, 07:54 PM

Im finally convinced and placed my order for the Intensity Pro... Lets se what comes out of it.. I guess the next step will be to find a suitable monitor.

I was looking at the NEC line. The JVC broadcast monitors look very interesting to. Exept the pricetag. This one: JVC Professional Features page would be the one I would go for, IF it were available in Europe. Anyone know if it would work outside USA?

BTW take a look at this:http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/f...l_id=MDL101867 that baby just got added to their product line.. OMG!!

Mark Keck · April 28th, 2009, 08:34 PM

The JVC DT-V24L1U can be had stateside for ~$1700-1800 from a number of places... not sure about EU. I've had my eye on it. Once I get back there I'll look at it more seriously. Some will pan it and tell you to go for the DT-V24L3DU for the SDI connection. That would be nice but not sure it's needed by us amateurs. While a broadcast monitor is the right way to go, if you're on a budget a good HDTV is more that passable at half the cost.

Either way, please tell us how it all works out for you. I for one am interested in how others have their systems set up.

Mark Keck · April 29th, 2009, 03:45 PM

Bill,

Found the procedure that I use. Sorry it took so long... lost link... lost paper copy. Anyway:

GREYSCALE & COLOUR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES

Some notes:

1) This is a "how-to for Dummies" version. On the bright side, he really includes a lot of good techincal (why do it) info. after you go thru it, you'll see why I was reluctant to write my own :-)

2) This is written for calibrating a CRT projector, but he includes enough info to handle LCDs as well.

3) The test patterns he uses are sourced via DVD or an output from HCRF. I generated my own in FCP (Motion)... it's easy enough to do if you understand what you're after. If you use FCP, I can send you the file. I haven't tried to make it into a .mov yet... I need to verify that nothing changes in the process if I do.

Good luck, if you use it, let us know how it works for you.

Mark

Nik Skjoth · April 29th, 2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Keck

Bill,

Found the procedure that I use. Sorry it took so long... lost link... lost paper copy. Anyway:

GREYSCALE & COLOUR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES

Some notes:

1) This is a "how-to for Dummies" version. On the bright side, he really includes a lot of good techincal (why do it) info. after you go thru it, you'll see why I was reluctant to write my own :-)

2) This is written for calibrating a CRT projector, but he includes enough info to handle LCDs as well.

3) The test patterns he uses are sourced via DVD or an output from HCRF. I generated my own in FCP (Motion)... it's easy enough to do if you understand what you're after. If you use FCP, I can send you the file. I haven't tried to make it into a .mov yet... I need to verify that nothing changes in the process if I do.

Good luck, if you use it, let us know how it works for you.

Mark

Very nice.. The HCRF was exactly what I needed...

Im on the PC side, so FCP is not in my domain.

Bill Ravens · April 29th, 2009, 07:59 PM

Great stuff, Mark. Thanx, so much.

Nik Skjoth · May 4th, 2009, 07:00 PM

So I finally got my Intensity pro delivered and setup...

The image is terrible... Everything is way way oversaturated, it has a very redish feel to it, the contrast seems to high, and overall the image is dark. When I look at the Colorbars it looks wrong aswell. And the pludge is not visible in any way. Its as if it wasn't even there.. Just black in all 3 fields no matter how I tweat the monitor. If I try to raise the brightness all three fields just go gray alltogehter in the exact same tone.

Any help?

I thought that the card had some kind of managment tool software with it, to set the right color space, gamut, and levels but there is nothing as far as I can see..

Any help?

Bill Ravens · May 4th, 2009, 07:21 PM

I've read a lot of bad things about that Intensity card, Dump it! Sorry for tha bad news. I'm looking forward to the releas eof the AJA IO express...it looks like something useful, esp. if it can encode to the cineform DI.

Nik Skjoth · May 4th, 2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

I've read a lot of bad things about that Intensity card, Dump it! Sorry for tha bad news. I'm looking forward to the releas eof the AJA IO express...it looks like something useful, esp. if it can encode to the cineform DI.

Are you serious? Damn... Well there must be a way to set it straight. I doubt that Blackmagic would make a product so bad as it looks right now.. To their defence, I tried connecting my monitor with HDMI cable but using the DVI output of my graphic card, with an DVI to HDMI adapter.. It gives similar look only worse. But the feeling is kinda the same.. To much saturation, red, and to dark. Then I connected the intensity with the monitor using component.. Exactly the same image as with HDMI...

The problem may be the monitor.

Bill Ravens · May 4th, 2009, 08:24 PM

My Dell Inspiron has a display that HAS to be the worst thing I've ever had to deal with. After applying the HFCR tool that Nik recommended, for the first time in 3 years, it looks like something that's close to the second Sony monitor that i use alongside. I', WAY impressed with HFCR...thanx Nik for showing me the way. The Dell still has regions all over the screen that are different, but, at leat everything is now somewhat consistent.

Nik Skjoth · May 4th, 2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

My Dell Inspiron has a display that HAS to be the worst thing I've ever had to deal with. After applying the HFCR tool that Nik recommended, for the first time in 3 years, it looks like something that's close to the second Sony monitor that i use alongside. I', WAY impressed with HFCR...thanx Nik for showing me the way. The Dell still has regions all over the screen that are different, but, at leat everything is now somewhat consistent.

Well the problem is my monitor has very limited tweak options. And none of them can stretch far enough to give the right image if used in HDMI mode. This is very bad, if the Intensity only has one setting and you cant change it.

Im not sure what it's suppose to do in the first place..

Mark!. How do you see any advantage by using your intensity? It has absolutelly nothing to offer image wise. I should have just bought a good Monitor instead and keep using DVI connection, untill someone can explain what the h... a SDI or HDMI or COMPONENT card can do that DVI based cards cant.

Mark Keck · May 5th, 2009, 03:46 PM

Nik,

You still haven't changed the fundamental problem... the monitor. The Intensity card has no color adjustments of it's own. It just outputs the color space in the proper format. You are correct that you monitor just doesn't have the proper adjustments... it a computer monitor, it was designed for sRGB. You need something designed for video. And while it's not a substitute for a broadcast monitor, most HDTVs these days have the proper adjustments to get fairly close to the REC709 standard. So if you have a decent HDTV, hook that up and then adjust using HCFR. You should notice a big difference.

Bill... I know you we thinking of me when you credited Nik for the HCFR stuff :-)

Mark

April 28th, 2009, 06:23 PM	#16
Mark Keck Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Penang, Malaysia Posts: 123	Hi Nik, You're not calibrating the card, you're calibrating the monitor (TV in my case). So I've got some more homework for you :-) Head over to avsforum.com and read up on calibrating HDTV's. I use an i1 with the HCFR software on a laptop. I've generated my own test patterns in my NLE (FCP) that are output to the monitor (HDTV) via the BM Intensity. It works reasonably well. If you rather use a comercial product rather than HCFR, google "Calman". Be prepared for sticker shock... but at least the www has some very good info on it. Bill... I'm still looking for the step-by-step process for HCFR but no luck yet. I guess I'm goinig to have to write it up myself. Can anyone loan me a spare couple of hours??? Mark

April 28th, 2009, 07:28 PM	#18
Mark Keck Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Penang, Malaysia Posts: 123	Glad to here it Bill. What display are you using??? Mark

April 28th, 2009, 07:43 PM	#19
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Mark... Laptop : Geforce Go 7900gs with a samsung 205BW LCD Workstation: Quadro FX1700 with two Sony LCD

April 28th, 2009, 07:54 PM	#20
Nik Skjoth Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cph Denmark Posts: 136	Im finally convinced and placed my order for the Intensity Pro... Lets se what comes out of it.. I guess the next step will be to find a suitable monitor. I was looking at the NEC line. The JVC broadcast monitors look very interesting to. Exept the pricetag. This one: JVC Professional Features page would be the one I would go for, IF it were available in Europe. Anyone know if it would work outside USA? BTW take a look at this:http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/f...l_id=MDL101867 that baby just got added to their product line.. OMG!!

April 28th, 2009, 08:34 PM	#21
Mark Keck Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Penang, Malaysia Posts: 123	The JVC DT-V24L1U can be had stateside for ~$1700-1800 from a number of places... not sure about EU. I've had my eye on it. Once I get back there I'll look at it more seriously. Some will pan it and tell you to go for the DT-V24L3DU for the SDI connection. That would be nice but not sure it's needed by us amateurs. While a broadcast monitor is the right way to go, if you're on a budget a good HDTV is more that passable at half the cost. Either way, please tell us how it all works out for you. I for one am interested in how others have their systems set up.

April 29th, 2009, 03:45 PM	#22
Mark Keck Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Penang, Malaysia Posts: 123	Bill, Found the procedure that I use. Sorry it took so long... lost link... lost paper copy. Anyway: GREYSCALE & COLOUR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES Some notes: 1) This is a "how-to for Dummies" version. On the bright side, he really includes a lot of good techincal (why do it) info. after you go thru it, you'll see why I was reluctant to write my own :-) 2) This is written for calibrating a CRT projector, but he includes enough info to handle LCDs as well. 3) The test patterns he uses are sourced via DVD or an output from HCRF. I generated my own in FCP (Motion)... it's easy enough to do if you understand what you're after. If you use FCP, I can send you the file. I haven't tried to make it into a .mov yet... I need to verify that nothing changes in the process if I do. Good luck, if you use it, let us know how it works for you. Mark

April 29th, 2009, 07:59 PM	#24
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Great stuff, Mark. Thanx, so much.

May 4th, 2009, 07:00 PM	#25
Nik Skjoth Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cph Denmark Posts: 136	So I finally got my Intensity pro delivered and setup... The image is terrible... Everything is way way oversaturated, it has a very redish feel to it, the contrast seems to high, and overall the image is dark. When I look at the Colorbars it looks wrong aswell. And the pludge is not visible in any way. Its as if it wasn't even there.. Just black in all 3 fields no matter how I tweat the monitor. If I try to raise the brightness all three fields just go gray alltogehter in the exact same tone. Any help? I thought that the card had some kind of managment tool software with it, to set the right color space, gamut, and levels but there is nothing as far as I can see.. Any help?

May 4th, 2009, 07:21 PM	#26
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I've read a lot of bad things about that Intensity card, Dump it! Sorry for tha bad news. I'm looking forward to the releas eof the AJA IO express...it looks like something useful, esp. if it can encode to the cineform DI.

May 4th, 2009, 08:24 PM	#28
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	My Dell Inspiron has a display that HAS to be the worst thing I've ever had to deal with. After applying the HFCR tool that Nik recommended, for the first time in 3 years, it looks like something that's close to the second Sony monitor that i use alongside. I', WAY impressed with HFCR...thanx Nik for showing me the way. The Dell still has regions all over the screen that are different, but, at leat everything is now somewhat consistent.

May 5th, 2009, 03:46 PM	#30
Mark Keck Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Penang, Malaysia Posts: 123	Nik, You still haven't changed the fundamental problem... the monitor. The Intensity card has no color adjustments of it's own. It just outputs the color space in the proper format. You are correct that you monitor just doesn't have the proper adjustments... it a computer monitor, it was designed for sRGB. You need something designed for video. And while it's not a substitute for a broadcast monitor, most HDTVs these days have the proper adjustments to get fairly close to the REC709 standard. So if you have a decent HDTV, hook that up and then adjust using HCFR. You should notice a big difference. Bill... I know you we thinking of me when you credited Nik for the HCFR stuff :-) Mark