Transflective screens at DVinfo.net

Nelson Alexandre · February 9th, 2009, 07:14 AM

Hi,

I'm searching for a field monitor for my 35mm adapter pack. I had one I just sold to a friend because it was impossible to read at sunlight, even with a sunshade on.

I've been surfing around and saw the sub200$ monitor thread but no one did mention how it works at sunlight (or I just missed that part), but digging a bit I came across with a new monitor technology: Transflective screens!

Did anyone already worked with one of these?

I'm wondering if it really works or if it's just a way to spend more money unwisely!

Thanks

Nelson Alexandre · February 11th, 2009, 04:09 AM

No one? :(

Andrew Dean · February 11th, 2009, 05:08 AM

Well. Transflective screens are not "new" technology, but because they are a compromise between reflective (outdoor ONLY) and transmissive (regular lcd) then developers seem to avoid them.

The cheapest transflective monitor is probably the modified lilliput from mp3car.com. For $100 less you can buy the xenarc 702 which is 1000 nits, and probably brighter in ambient but not direct sun.

These monitors, while the same rez as high end screens, have pretty mediocre scalers built in and only composite source. So, honestly, just like the 800x480 dvd players, they just aren't useful for focus. You need to move up to a higher rez monitor and/or one with a much nicer scaler to use the pixels for focusing.

I was excited that the nebtek monitor is "daylight coated", which might be transflective, or it might be just a glare coating, but of course its 5-10x the cost of a lilliput. Its also 800x480 but lots of reports are that its scaler is so awesome that hd focus is achievable with it.

According to the manhattanlcd guy, his monitors have the aftermarket 3m transflective inserts, but from the people that own them, it sounds like they are still really weak in sunlight.

I'm with you. I really wish smallhd or manhattanlcd would make sunlight viewing a priority, but for now, there just doesn't seem to be a great option.

Not what you wanted to hear, i'm sure... sorry.

Nelson Alexandre · February 11th, 2009, 03:59 PM

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Regarding focus, many mates seem to be quite happy with the 800x480 resolution from the little Sony DVD player! But I understand when you mention Nebtek.

Unfortunately, you are raising the bar too high for my budget right now. Besides the monitor I have to save some money to buy a mattebox and I'm in the need of an Anton Bauer battery, so I have a 400 bucks max to invest on a monitor.

I will go to take a look on the Xenarc you'd mentioned though. If it's transflective and it is 100 buck cheaper than Liliput it cam be a good solution. Who knows...

It's a matter of choice. For now I think that definition and sunlight workable go on par. A great hd monitor that can't be used in direct sunlight is unusable for me, and since I don't have the money to spend on a Marshal or on a Steadicam monitor, it has to be one of those you've mentioned.

Christopher Witz · February 11th, 2009, 05:57 PM

I am extremely happy with my nebtek..... well worth dumping something you don't really need to have a "proper" field monitor that can be calibrated and viewable in daylight.

Nelson Alexandre · February 12th, 2009, 07:47 AM

Hi Christopher,

Are you saying that your Nebtek is a transflective one? Can you share your monitor's ref and how much did it cost?

Thanks

Terry Lee · February 21st, 2009, 08:45 PM

Algumas pessoas gostam o pequinoHD monitors. Mas são não transflective.

estão aqui: SmallHD.com - Showcase

Nelson Alexandre · February 23rd, 2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Lee

Algumas pessoas gostam o pequinoHD monitors. Mas são não transflective.

estão aqui: SmallHD.com - Showcase

Hi Terry,

Talking Portuguese?! Not common :) Parents across the Atlantic?

Yes, I've seen those... But I really need a sunlight readable screen I'm afraid.

Andrew Dean · February 23rd, 2009, 09:59 PM

Daylight monitors are out there. But they aren't cheap.

The only other thing to check out is the cowan a3. Some people have reported that it is daylight viewable. (what that means varies person to person though). Its actually a little pmp, but with a 800x480 screen about the size of a business card. It has a composite input (through a miniplug) that allows you to input and even record SD video.

I toyed with one and the screen was amazing for the size and price, and it did seem brighter than a dvd player, but until i see one in sunlight (with a sunshade, because reflections are a real issue outside too) then i couldn't say for sure.

I'd tell ya to keep looking, but frankly, i've been digging for a year now and my conclusion has been that i either need to drop huge dollars, settle for a big sun cone over the monitor, or give up until something else comes along.

Although, the a3 would be sexy to have while not shooting. Sucks all the new cowan pmps ditched the video input. oh well.

Boyd Ostroff · February 28th, 2009, 03:06 PM

I agree that it's a disappointment there aren't transreflective solutions out there. The Sony Z1 and FX1 have flip-open transreflective screens which are really quite good - a fact that many people are unaware of. A few years ago when we were doing the DVinfo "Texas Shootout" I showed this to some of the other participants (all of whom had considerable experience with different cameras) and they were quite surprised at how good the little Z1 screen looked in full sunlight with no backlight.

TingSern Wong · March 1st, 2009, 04:21 AM

Why don't you just a sunshade and be done with this problem? Eliminate reflections too. I have a Petrol bag that I use to carry my Panasonic LH80W field monitor - and it comes with hood that is effective in bright sunlight.

Christopher Witz · March 1st, 2009, 08:07 AM

I concur regarding using a hood.... I use one with my nebtek and it works great in daylight, although the fact the the nebtek is 600nits really helps as well.

Terry Lee · May 25th, 2009, 04:17 PM

[QUOTE=Nelson Alexandre;1017305]
Talking Portuguese?! Not common :) Parents across the Atlantic?
QUOTE]

Nope lol. I just took Portuguese in College :)

Nelson Alexandre · June 10th, 2009, 08:53 AM

Wow Terry! I've thought that no one really cared about our language anymore :) Good to know that.

About monitors. I've decided to buy the LinITX 7" Transflective. After some issues about it (which I'll explain at the right moment), I'm really happy with it and I'm preparing a full review to post some day soon.

Trevor Meeks · June 10th, 2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelson Alexandre

Yes, I've seen those... But I really need a sunlight readable screen I'm afraid.

Dude, smallHD is more than fine in sunlight, and their sun hood works great, attaches easily and is super-portable.

Really, a good monitor like the DP1 is well worth it. I would never encourage anyone to purchase a cheap or less-than-HD display.

February 9th, 2009, 07:14 AM	#1
Nelson Alexandre Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lisboa / Portugal Posts: 45	Transflective screens Hi, I'm searching for a field monitor for my 35mm adapter pack. I had one I just sold to a friend because it was impossible to read at sunlight, even with a sunshade on. I've been surfing around and saw the sub200$ monitor thread but no one did mention how it works at sunlight (or I just missed that part), but digging a bit I came across with a new monitor technology: Transflective screens! Did anyone already worked with one of these? I'm wondering if it really works or if it's just a way to spend more money unwisely! Thanks

February 21st, 2009, 08:45 PM	#7
Terry Lee Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 691	Algumas pessoas gostam o pequinoHD monitors. Mas são não transflective. estão aqui: SmallHD.com - Showcase __________________ https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=38313004

May 25th, 2009, 04:17 PM	#13
Terry Lee Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 691	[QUOTE=Nelson Alexandre;1017305] Talking Portuguese?! Not common :) Parents across the Atlantic? QUOTE] Nope lol. I just took Portuguese in College :) __________________ https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=38313004

February 11th, 2009, 04:09 AM	#2
Nelson Alexandre Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lisboa / Portugal Posts: 45	No one? :(

February 11th, 2009, 05:08 AM	#3
Andrew Dean Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Motukarara, New Zealand Posts: 475	Well. Transflective screens are not "new" technology, but because they are a compromise between reflective (outdoor ONLY) and transmissive (regular lcd) then developers seem to avoid them. The cheapest transflective monitor is probably the modified lilliput from mp3car.com. For $100 less you can buy the xenarc 702 which is 1000 nits, and probably brighter in ambient but not direct sun. These monitors, while the same rez as high end screens, have pretty mediocre scalers built in and only composite source. So, honestly, just like the 800x480 dvd players, they just aren't useful for focus. You need to move up to a higher rez monitor and/or one with a much nicer scaler to use the pixels for focusing. I was excited that the nebtek monitor is "daylight coated", which might be transflective, or it might be just a glare coating, but of course its 5-10x the cost of a lilliput. Its also 800x480 but lots of reports are that its scaler is so awesome that hd focus is achievable with it. According to the manhattanlcd guy, his monitors have the aftermarket 3m transflective inserts, but from the people that own them, it sounds like they are still really weak in sunlight. I'm with you. I really wish smallhd or manhattanlcd would make sunlight viewing a priority, but for now, there just doesn't seem to be a great option. Not what you wanted to hear, i'm sure... sorry.

February 11th, 2009, 03:59 PM	#4
Nelson Alexandre Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lisboa / Portugal Posts: 45	Hi Andrew, Thanks for sharing your experience. Regarding focus, many mates seem to be quite happy with the 800x480 resolution from the little Sony DVD player! But I understand when you mention Nebtek. Unfortunately, you are raising the bar too high for my budget right now. Besides the monitor I have to save some money to buy a mattebox and I'm in the need of an Anton Bauer battery, so I have a 400 bucks max to invest on a monitor. I will go to take a look on the Xenarc you'd mentioned though. If it's transflective and it is 100 buck cheaper than Liliput it cam be a good solution. Who knows... It's a matter of choice. For now I think that definition and sunlight workable go on par. A great hd monitor that can't be used in direct sunlight is unusable for me, and since I don't have the money to spend on a Marshal or on a Steadicam monitor, it has to be one of those you've mentioned.

February 11th, 2009, 05:57 PM	#5
Christopher Witz Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 591	I am extremely happy with my nebtek..... well worth dumping something you don't really need to have a "proper" field monitor that can be calibrated and viewable in daylight.

February 12th, 2009, 07:47 AM	#6
Nelson Alexandre Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lisboa / Portugal Posts: 45	Hi Christopher, Are you saying that your Nebtek is a transflective one? Can you share your monitor's ref and how much did it cost? Thanks

February 23rd, 2009, 09:59 PM	#9
Andrew Dean Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Motukarara, New Zealand Posts: 475	Daylight monitors are out there. But they aren't cheap. The only other thing to check out is the cowan a3. Some people have reported that it is daylight viewable. (what that means varies person to person though). Its actually a little pmp, but with a 800x480 screen about the size of a business card. It has a composite input (through a miniplug) that allows you to input and even record SD video. I toyed with one and the screen was amazing for the size and price, and it did seem brighter than a dvd player, but until i see one in sunlight (with a sunshade, because reflections are a real issue outside too) then i couldn't say for sure. I'd tell ya to keep looking, but frankly, i've been digging for a year now and my conclusion has been that i either need to drop huge dollars, settle for a big sun cone over the monitor, or give up until something else comes along. Although, the a3 would be sexy to have while not shooting. Sucks all the new cowan pmps ditched the video input. oh well.

February 28th, 2009, 03:06 PM	#10
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	I agree that it's a disappointment there aren't transreflective solutions out there. The Sony Z1 and FX1 have flip-open transreflective screens which are really quite good - a fact that many people are unaware of. A few years ago when we were doing the DVinfo "Texas Shootout" I showed this to some of the other participants (all of whom had considerable experience with different cameras) and they were quite surprised at how good the little Z1 screen looked in full sunlight with no backlight.

March 1st, 2009, 04:21 AM	#11
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Why don't you just a sunshade and be done with this problem? Eliminate reflections too. I have a Petrol bag that I use to carry my Panasonic LH80W field monitor - and it comes with hood that is effective in bright sunlight.

March 1st, 2009, 08:07 AM	#12
Christopher Witz Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 591	I concur regarding using a hood.... I use one with my nebtek and it works great in daylight, although the fact the the nebtek is 600nits really helps as well.

June 10th, 2009, 08:53 AM	#14
Nelson Alexandre Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lisboa / Portugal Posts: 45	Wow Terry! I've thought that no one really cared about our language anymore :) Good to know that. About monitors. I've decided to buy the LinITX 7" Transflective. After some issues about it (which I'll explain at the right moment), I'm really happy with it and I'm preparing a full review to post some day soon.