Help getting an affordable HD monitor or TV, 720 P native at DVinfo.net

Heath McKnight · June 26th, 2003, 04:58 PM

I know we've had this discussion before, but I'm really looking for something small and convienent for lugging around and editing with. Sure, a big HD monitor costs about the same, but it's not easy for location shoots. I saw a 15 inch and 17 inch flat panel HDTV for $799, so maybe I'll go with that.

Any suggestions?

heath

Steve Mullen · June 26th, 2003, 06:14 PM

I'm reviewing a $1500 6# Sanyo Z1 projector. With a 9 foot throw it delivers a great 8 foot HD (720p and 1080i) pix. Love it!

Heath McKnight · June 26th, 2003, 06:44 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : I'm reviewing a $1500 6# Sanyo Z1 projector. With a 9 foot throw it delivers a great 8 foot HD (720p and 1080i) pix. Love it! -->>>

I'll remember that, because I'd really like to get a projector soon. But what about a good monitor?

heath

Jeff Kilgroe · June 26th, 2003, 10:39 PM

I think your best bet for something portable would be an LCD display. Although you will spend a lot of money for one. Most LCD sets are not 1280x720 native, in fact I don't know of any under 22" that are not. And current prices on them are in the realm of rediculous. In the computer section of the electronics store, they sell for a couple hundred $$, but as soon as they take the same unit and put a TV tuner on it and sell it out of the TV section, it becomes 5X the price.

Other than that, the only "small" displays I know of that will take 720p (which are not LCD or Plasma) are the Monivision or the new Sony 34" KVHSF510. The Sony is the only multi-scanning HDTV display out there right now - meaning that it operates like a computer monitor and will display multiple resolutions. The Monivision is only 1024x768 and like what was covered before in the other thread, that gives an oddball aspect ratio for viewing any signal the monitor doesn't scale. And for 720p input, the monitor loses 200 lines of horizontal resolution.

I don't know what your budget limit is, but I would suggest looking into the LCD displays. A lot of them are 1024x768 like the Monivision and they probably do accept 720p via DVI and/or RGB and component. So they may not provide better resolution than the Monivision, but could be a lot more portable for a field monitor. Just be prepared to pay the $935 for it. Not a very good price considering the current offerings from Samsung, Philips and Toshiba all have higher resolution (1080i) native and are about that same price with a true flat screen on a 30" set.

If you can wait a bit, Philips will be releasing a 32" LCOS unit. I don't know how affordable it will be, though. It will have 1280x720p native capability and should provide a sharper picture than other direct view sets, as most DLP/LCOS displays do.

Oh yeah, the Sony 34" is out of the question for portability as it weighs over 200lbs!

Paul Mogg · June 28th, 2003, 06:54 AM

Jeff,
Several people on the AVS forum site say they confirmed independently that the true native resolution of the Monivision 32" is 1280 *720 in 16:9 mode, so you're not losing any resolution showing 720p on it. I'm hoping this is correct as it's mostly why I decided to buy one. It arrived today, but the delivery guys dropped it off the back of the truck trying to get it into my house, and broke it! Aggghhhh!

Paul Mogg · June 28th, 2003, 06:56 AM

Steve, when will your review be available of the projector? I'm very interested in this. What resoluution does it have and how large will it project with acceptable brightness? Sorry, I don't know much about projectors to ask the right questions.

Jeff Kilgroe · June 28th, 2003, 09:11 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Mogg : Jeff,
Several people on the AVS forum site say they confirmed independently that the true native resolution of the Monivision 32" is 1280 *720 in 16:9 mode, so you're not losing any resolution showing 720p on it. I'm hoping this is correct as it's mostly why I decided to buy one. It arrived today, but the delivery guys dropped it off the back of the truck trying to get it into my house, and broke it! Aggghhhh! -->>>

All of Monivision's monitors are 1024x768. This is clearly defined in the spec sheets online at monivision.com, in their product manuals, and verified by calling Monivision support. But if you can find someone at Monivision who can say otherwise and tell us all why the spec sheets and manual are wrong, then I'd like to know.

Yes, the monitors will accept 720p input and you will not lose any vertical resolution, but you lose 260 lines of horizontal resolution. Even so, unless you had a true 1280x720 display sitting next to it, I doubt you would be able to notice. For VGA input the monitors accept 1024x768 and will display it scaled as letterbox with bars on the side for proper aspect ratio, or will display at natie res full screen. They will also accept 1280x720 and scale to full screen as it would for an HD 720 signal.

The 32" Monivision for $775 is still a good buy if you need 720p input and the displays should work wonderfully for SD 16:9. All the other 32" direct view monitors on the market (that I am aware of) won't even accept 720p input. Some of the 15" and 17" LCDs will accept 720p, but I am also not aware of any of those with true 720p input (outside of PC monitors without component input capability, only VGA/DVI). The next two displays in line after the Monivision both in size and price that accept 720p input would be the Sony KV34HS510 34" wide model ~$1700 and the 22" LCD models from Samsung and Princeton. ~$2800. Most other 22" LCD models are still 1024x768 and most 15/17" models are 854x480 and most don't accept 720p input. The cheapest Plasma screen I am aware of that has native 1280x720 pixels sells for $6K from a good competitive pricing vendor.

Panasonic has a 40" LCD projection set which isn't all that big and weighs about the same or less than the 32" Monivision. It's the PT40LC12. Native 1280x720 complete with component, VGA and DVI inputs and sells for about $2200.

Outside of the LCDs, none of these are truly portable or great for a field monitor if using outdoors.

If I needed something right now, I would probably still buy the Monivision. It's not perfect, but I don't see any other options unless I want to spend at least 4 times the price. If I could justify the cost and the monitor would always stay in the studio or next to the editing system, then I would seriously consider that Panasonic 40" LCD projection set. Next up on the list would be either the Philips 43" LCOS set or the Samsung 43" DLP set - both are about $3200. And they give the clearest pictures out there and both have native 720p and all the bells and whistles.

If waiting a few more months is an option, Philips will have a 32" 'desktop' LCOS set that should be about the same size as the Monivision (maybe a few inches taller) and it will weigh bout 25lbs or so. I think it will list for $2995.

But all things considered, I think if I needed a field monitor, I would go buy a small widescreen LCD for under $500. Even if I have to live with 854x480 resolution. All the editing will be done on a PC/Mac and therefore my computer screen will be where I'm most concerned about how the video looks. And my screens all have 1280x720 pixels and then some. For final playback, it sure would be nice to see it on a 720p display to match the JVC camcorder, but most HDTVs out there are 1080i and if it looks like crap on 1080i, then most people will think the video just looks like crap. Unless I'm going exclusively to film or will only show the video on my own gear, I'd probably want a display that would do 1080i.

...YMMV.

Boyd Ostroff · June 28th, 2003, 11:49 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Kilgroe :If I needed something right now, I would probably still buy the Monivision. It's not perfect, but I don't see any other options unless I want to spend at least 4 times the price.

Well this is maybe only 3 times the price, but is anyone familiar with the Sony WEGA KLV-23HR1 LCD? Was looking at one in the store recently and it seemed very nice. Native resolution is 1280x768, specs say it does 480i, 480p, 1080i, 720p. List price is $2,300.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Kilgroe : But all things considered, I think if I needed a field monitor, I would go buy a small widescreen LCD for under $500. Even if I have to live with 854x480 resolution.

Can you post a link to where such a thing could be found? I would love a $500 16:9 LCD with 480x854 resolution. The small LCD monitors I've seen (such as Transvideo) all have a lower resolution than this, typically only 240 vertical lines.

Jeff Kilgroe · June 28th, 2003, 02:31 PM

I don't have any specific links, but my local Best Buy has 11" and a 15" LCD monitors (both with 854x480 resolution). Their price right now is $489 for the 11" and $549 for the 15". Both are 16:9. IIRC, the 11" is a Philips and the 15" is a Sharp. They also have a 15" (also a Sharp, I think) that is 1024x768 native for $1179.

The Sony KLV-23HR1 you mention is one of the expensive $2000+ LCDs I mentioned that do native 1280x720. It's native pixel resolution is actually 1280x768. I've seen it mail order for as low as $1750 -- check pricegrabber and pricescan.

This may be a serious consideration too if one doesn't mind spending double what they would spend on the Monivision. Keep in mind that it will cost $935 to get that Monivision 32" to your doorstep.

Heath McKnight · June 28th, 2003, 05:43 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Kilgroe : I don't have any specific links, but my local Best Buy has 11" and a 15" LCD monitors (both with 854x480 resolution). Their price right now is $489 for the 11" and $549 for the 15". Both are 16:9. IIRC, the 11" is a Philips and the 15" is a Sharp. They also have a 15" (also a Sharp, I think) that is 1024x768 native for $1179.

The Sony KLV-23HR1 you mention is one of the expensive $2000+ LCDs I mentioned that do native 1280x720. It's native pixel resolution is actually 1280x768. I've seen it mail order for as low as $1750 -- check pricegrabber and pricescan.

This may be a serious consideration too if one doesn't mind spending double what they would spend on the Monivision. Keep in mind that it will cost $935 to get that Monivision 32" to your doorstep. -->>>

Thanks, all. I went with a 15 inch LCD for $875. It's small, which is good for field production. In a few months, I'll buy an HDTV for the house.

heath

Andre Jesmanowicz · June 28th, 2003, 07:16 PM

What about Samsung LTM1775W. I am using it as a TV receiver, HDTV monitor, and a computer monitor. RCA in, S-VHS in, VGA in, 2x component in (HDTV, DVD) and standard tuner.

Jeff Kilgroe · June 28th, 2003, 10:17 PM

Doh! I completely forgot about the Samsung LTM1775W!!! I should have remembered - I'm pretty familiar with all their product lines. It's native 1280x720 too. I think it lists for about $1500 or less too.

Rodger Marjama · June 28th, 2003, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Kilgroe : Doh! I completely forgot about the Samsung LTM1775W!!! I should have remembered - I'm pretty familiar with all their product lines. It's native 1280x720 too. I think it lists for about $1500 or less too.

Yeah, alot less. Almost looks to good to pass up. Here's the link:

http://www.bestbuyplasma.com/Plasma/...SKU_Y_LTM1775W

Even cheaper here:

http://www.pcvideoonline.com/product...&productid=397

-Rodger

Boyd Ostroff · June 29th, 2003, 07:24 AM

I had never seen that PCVideoOnline place before. Has anybody done business with them? One thing stands out like a sore thumb though. They're advertising the PD-150 for $2,598. There's another thread in the PD-150 group where someone was looking for a $2,500 PD-150. Many people have responded that this just isn't going to happen, and that places advertising PD-150's for under $3,000 are (more or less) ripoffs...

June 26th, 2003, 04:58 PM	#1
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Help getting an affordable HD monitor or TV, 720 P native I know we've had this discussion before, but I'm really looking for something small and convienent for lugging around and editing with. Sure, a big HD monitor costs about the same, but it's not easy for location shoots. I saw a 15 inch and 17 inch flat panel HDTV for $799, so maybe I'll go with that. Any suggestions? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

June 26th, 2003, 06:14 PM	#2
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	I'm reviewing a $1500 6# Sanyo Z1 projector. With a 9 foot throw it delivers a great 8 foot HD (720p and 1080i) pix. Love it! __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

June 26th, 2003, 06:44 PM	#3
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : I'm reviewing a $1500 6# Sanyo Z1 projector. With a 9 foot throw it delivers a great 8 foot HD (720p and 1080i) pix. Love it! -->>> I'll remember that, because I'd really like to get a projector soon. But what about a good monitor? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

June 26th, 2003, 10:39 PM	#4
Jeff Kilgroe Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 681	I think your best bet for something portable would be an LCD display. Although you will spend a lot of money for one. Most LCD sets are not 1280x720 native, in fact I don't know of any under 22" that are not. And current prices on them are in the realm of rediculous. In the computer section of the electronics store, they sell for a couple hundred $$, but as soon as they take the same unit and put a TV tuner on it and sell it out of the TV section, it becomes 5X the price. Other than that, the only "small" displays I know of that will take 720p (which are not LCD or Plasma) are the Monivision or the new Sony 34" KVHSF510. The Sony is the only multi-scanning HDTV display out there right now - meaning that it operates like a computer monitor and will display multiple resolutions. The Monivision is only 1024x768 and like what was covered before in the other thread, that gives an oddball aspect ratio for viewing any signal the monitor doesn't scale. And for 720p input, the monitor loses 200 lines of horizontal resolution. I don't know what your budget limit is, but I would suggest looking into the LCD displays. A lot of them are 1024x768 like the Monivision and they probably do accept 720p via DVI and/or RGB and component. So they may not provide better resolution than the Monivision, but could be a lot more portable for a field monitor. Just be prepared to pay the $935 for it. Not a very good price considering the current offerings from Samsung, Philips and Toshiba all have higher resolution (1080i) native and are about that same price with a true flat screen on a 30" set. If you can wait a bit, Philips will be releasing a 32" LCOS unit. I don't know how affordable it will be, though. It will have 1280x720p native capability and should provide a sharper picture than other direct view sets, as most DLP/LCOS displays do. Oh yeah, the Sony 34" is out of the question for portability as it weighs over 200lbs! __________________ - Jeff Kilgroe - Applied Visual Technologies \| DarkScience - www.darkscience.com

June 28th, 2003, 06:54 AM	#5
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	Jeff, Several people on the AVS forum site say they confirmed independently that the true native resolution of the Monivision 32" is 1280 *720 in 16:9 mode, so you're not losing any resolution showing 720p on it. I'm hoping this is correct as it's mostly why I decided to buy one. It arrived today, but the delivery guys dropped it off the back of the truck trying to get it into my house, and broke it! Aggghhhh! __________________ Paul

June 28th, 2003, 06:56 AM	#6
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	Steve, when will your review be available of the projector? I'm very interested in this. What resoluution does it have and how large will it project with acceptable brightness? Sorry, I don't know much about projectors to ask the right questions. __________________ Paul

June 28th, 2003, 09:11 AM	#7
Jeff Kilgroe Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 681	<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Mogg : Jeff, Several people on the AVS forum site say they confirmed independently that the true native resolution of the Monivision 32" is 1280 *720 in 16:9 mode, so you're not losing any resolution showing 720p on it. I'm hoping this is correct as it's mostly why I decided to buy one. It arrived today, but the delivery guys dropped it off the back of the truck trying to get it into my house, and broke it! Aggghhhh! -->>> All of Monivision's monitors are 1024x768. This is clearly defined in the spec sheets online at monivision.com, in their product manuals, and verified by calling Monivision support. But if you can find someone at Monivision who can say otherwise and tell us all why the spec sheets and manual are wrong, then I'd like to know. Yes, the monitors will accept 720p input and you will not lose any vertical resolution, but you lose 260 lines of horizontal resolution. Even so, unless you had a true 1280x720 display sitting next to it, I doubt you would be able to notice. For VGA input the monitors accept 1024x768 and will display it scaled as letterbox with bars on the side for proper aspect ratio, or will display at natie res full screen. They will also accept 1280x720 and scale to full screen as it would for an HD 720 signal. The 32" Monivision for $775 is still a good buy if you need 720p input and the displays should work wonderfully for SD 16:9. All the other 32" direct view monitors on the market (that I am aware of) won't even accept 720p input. Some of the 15" and 17" LCDs will accept 720p, but I am also not aware of any of those with true 720p input (outside of PC monitors without component input capability, only VGA/DVI). The next two displays in line after the Monivision both in size and price that accept 720p input would be the Sony KV34HS510 34" wide model ~$1700 and the 22" LCD models from Samsung and Princeton. ~$2800. Most other 22" LCD models are still 1024x768 and most 15/17" models are 854x480 and most don't accept 720p input. The cheapest Plasma screen I am aware of that has native 1280x720 pixels sells for $6K from a good competitive pricing vendor. Panasonic has a 40" LCD projection set which isn't all that big and weighs about the same or less than the 32" Monivision. It's the PT40LC12. Native 1280x720 complete with component, VGA and DVI inputs and sells for about $2200. Outside of the LCDs, none of these are truly portable or great for a field monitor if using outdoors. If I needed something right now, I would probably still buy the Monivision. It's not perfect, but I don't see any other options unless I want to spend at least 4 times the price. If I could justify the cost and the monitor would always stay in the studio or next to the editing system, then I would seriously consider that Panasonic 40" LCD projection set. Next up on the list would be either the Philips 43" LCOS set or the Samsung 43" DLP set - both are about $3200. And they give the clearest pictures out there and both have native 720p and all the bells and whistles. If waiting a few more months is an option, Philips will have a 32" 'desktop' LCOS set that should be about the same size as the Monivision (maybe a few inches taller) and it will weigh bout 25lbs or so. I think it will list for $2995. But all things considered, I think if I needed a field monitor, I would go buy a small widescreen LCD for under $500. Even if I have to live with 854x480 resolution. All the editing will be done on a PC/Mac and therefore my computer screen will be where I'm most concerned about how the video looks. And my screens all have 1280x720 pixels and then some. For final playback, it sure would be nice to see it on a 720p display to match the JVC camcorder, but most HDTVs out there are 1080i and if it looks like crap on 1080i, then most people will think the video just looks like crap. Unless I'm going exclusively to film or will only show the video on my own gear, I'd probably want a display that would do 1080i. ...YMMV. __________________ - Jeff Kilgroe - Applied Visual Technologies \| DarkScience - www.darkscience.com

June 28th, 2003, 11:49 AM	#8
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Kilgroe :If I needed something right now, I would probably still buy the Monivision. It's not perfect, but I don't see any other options unless I want to spend at least 4 times the price. Well this is maybe only 3 times the price, but is anyone familiar with the Sony WEGA KLV-23HR1 LCD? Was looking at one in the store recently and it seemed very nice. Native resolution is 1280x768, specs say it does 480i, 480p, 1080i, 720p. List price is $2,300. <<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Kilgroe : But all things considered, I think if I needed a field monitor, I would go buy a small widescreen LCD for under $500. Even if I have to live with 854x480 resolution. Can you post a link to where such a thing could be found? I would love a $500 16:9 LCD with 480x854 resolution. The small LCD monitors I've seen (such as Transvideo) all have a lower resolution than this, typically only 240 vertical lines.

June 28th, 2003, 02:31 PM	#9
Jeff Kilgroe Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 681	I don't have any specific links, but my local Best Buy has 11" and a 15" LCD monitors (both with 854x480 resolution). Their price right now is $489 for the 11" and $549 for the 15". Both are 16:9. IIRC, the 11" is a Philips and the 15" is a Sharp. They also have a 15" (also a Sharp, I think) that is 1024x768 native for $1179. The Sony KLV-23HR1 you mention is one of the expensive $2000+ LCDs I mentioned that do native 1280x720. It's native pixel resolution is actually 1280x768. I've seen it mail order for as low as $1750 -- check pricegrabber and pricescan. This may be a serious consideration too if one doesn't mind spending double what they would spend on the Monivision. Keep in mind that it will cost $935 to get that Monivision 32" to your doorstep. __________________ - Jeff Kilgroe - Applied Visual Technologies \| DarkScience - www.darkscience.com

June 28th, 2003, 05:43 PM	#10
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Kilgroe : I don't have any specific links, but my local Best Buy has 11" and a 15" LCD monitors (both with 854x480 resolution). Their price right now is $489 for the 11" and $549 for the 15". Both are 16:9. IIRC, the 11" is a Philips and the 15" is a Sharp. They also have a 15" (also a Sharp, I think) that is 1024x768 native for $1179. The Sony KLV-23HR1 you mention is one of the expensive $2000+ LCDs I mentioned that do native 1280x720. It's native pixel resolution is actually 1280x768. I've seen it mail order for as low as $1750 -- check pricegrabber and pricescan. This may be a serious consideration too if one doesn't mind spending double what they would spend on the Monivision. Keep in mind that it will cost $935 to get that Monivision 32" to your doorstep. -->>> Thanks, all. I went with a 15 inch LCD for $875. It's small, which is good for field production. In a few months, I'll buy an HDTV for the house. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

June 28th, 2003, 07:16 PM	#11
Andre Jesmanowicz Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Milwaukee WI Posts: 36	What about Samsung LTM1775W. I am using it as a TV receiver, HDTV monitor, and a computer monitor. RCA in, S-VHS in, VGA in, 2x component in (HDTV, DVD) and standard tuner. __________________ Andre

June 28th, 2003, 10:17 PM	#12
Jeff Kilgroe Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 681	Doh! I completely forgot about the Samsung LTM1775W!!! I should have remembered - I'm pretty familiar with all their product lines. It's native 1280x720 too. I think it lists for about $1500 or less too. __________________ - Jeff Kilgroe - Applied Visual Technologies \| DarkScience - www.darkscience.com

June 29th, 2003, 07:24 AM	#14
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I had never seen that PCVideoOnline place before. Has anybody done business with them? One thing stands out like a sore thumb though. They're advertising the PD-150 for $2,598. There's another thread in the PD-150 group where someone was looking for a $2,500 PD-150. Many people have responded that this just isn't going to happen, and that places advertising PD-150's for under $3,000 are (more or less) ripoffs...