First-ever "Under Water, Over Land" Video Shoot-out

[Mike Teutsch]

Originally Posted by Bob Safay

A 30 sec. PSA, I like this plan. It could also show the ugly such as environmental degragation. I also agree that we need to push it back till after the holidays. Any you cut it, COUNT ME IN. Bob

Do not like this idea at all! Let's keep it basic, filmmaking, no politics, environmental activism or anything of the kind.

Mike

[Grant Sherman]

Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch

Do not like this idea at all! Let's keep it basic, filmmaking, no politics, environmental activism or anything of the kind.

Mike

PSA's don't have to political. I suggested it as another market for our work.

[Mike Teutsch]

How about we just stick to artistic filmmaking.

:)

[Grant Sherman]

Art without politics? Battleship Potemkin? :)

Seriously, some of us want to be wildlife film-makers and for some of us our art is mixed with charitable, moral, ethical, or political considerations. One vaguely political topic a year might keep a reasonable balance.

Environmental PSA's without political overtones could include:

* Avoiding alligators in certain places at night or at certain times of year :)

* Littering in nature reserves

* Feeding wild animals

* Avoiding forest fires

[Brendan Marnell]

Originally Posted by Grant Sherman

Art without politics? Battleship Potemkin? :)

Seriously, some of us want to be wildlife film-makers and for some of us our art is mixed with charitable, moral, ethical, or political considerations. One vaguely political topic a year might keep a reasonable balance.

Environmental PSA's without political overtones could include:

* Avoiding alligators in certain places at night or at certain times of year :)

* Littering in nature reserves

* Feeding wild animals

* Avoiding forest fires

I think Grant is talking about wildlife habitat. Many of us are increasingly interfering with wildlife habitat and messing up our wildlife. This is what I think the ethics of wildlife shooting should be addressing, at all levels, whether the problems are caused by scatty tourism or daredevil heroics or simply the blinkered attitude of mankind to our effects on the planet. I must welcome video clips that will heighten my awareness of how to protect wildlife habitat or help me to feel responsible for it in my own little way. The alternative is to see myself as just another paid-up member of the paparazzi invading privacy first and asking questions afterwards.

[Grant Sherman]

We've addressed the ethics of wildlife shooting in another thread. What I was thinking of could include films like Ken Diewert's "Echo Heights" documentary.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=80138

To convey a similar message in 30 seconds rather than 9 minutes could push our editing and story telling abilities (as well as our camera work)

The story I would like to do concerns people feeding Herring Gulls in tourist towns. It turns these beautiful, intelligent, birds into beggars and thieves. There are cases of them attacking people for chips or ice-creams. And it has led to calls for culls of these gulls.

This story fits into the PSA format and I'm sure there are other issues that also fit into this format. Some of them, like Ken's, concern local politics.

Some films convey a political or environmental message. We don't have to agree with a message, but we can appreciate the craft that conveys the message.

[Meryem Ersoz]

whoa, fellas. no thread-jacking! chris hurd's policy is to forego political debates and stick to production issues. i agree. those discussions never go anywhere in web world. everyone is entitled to their views, but those discussions have a tendency to devolve.

*hold hands, kumbay-ah (everyone sing!), release hands*

that's better. i think grant's idea is a good one. there is nothing inherently political about a PSA. they can take many forms and hold many viewpoints. and i think the challenge of shooting with an eye for broadcast and the lessons to be learned from trying to do so, probably for the first time for most participants, trumps the fears of touting political viewpoints.

we have to be careful about how we judge each others' politcal viewpoints, not about having them--that's a given.

we can talk about the PSA idea when it comes up for real--i think it is worth debating (and it's why i suggested the "non-profit" alternative, because it's more about providing a service and less weighted by the politics thingie...). for now, it's just one idea among many, many interesting approaches.

so, back to the topics at hand:

1) who's interested
2) how should we judge
3) help me with more brainstorming of topics
4) i forget, what was this one??

[Meryem Ersoz]

oh right....

4) we need a groovy name

[Grant Sherman]

"Kumbay-ah" ;-)

(3) Could the winner of the first contest decide the theme for the next contest?

[Meryem Ersoz]

ooo, grant, you're a wiley one!

no. that will be my one tyrannical, despotical, hegemonic-al, pleasure in generating this thing....

suggestions are always welcome, however....

[Brendan Marnell]

Meryem, I think there's a fundamental question to be asked, something like, Who is the client (in this exercise)? Let's have a look ...
I have the impression, rightly or wrongly, that we, nature videographers, come in 4 categories (overlapping but not so much they don't recognise themselves)...

1. Outdoor activists who go where they want & shoot what they like to shoot.
2. Indoor activists who would rather do an artistic editing job using "material" from many sources including their own.
3. A rare breed who can do 1 & 2 above.
4. A less rare breed who can't do either but would like to learn from others and from experience (like me).

If No.4 is to benefit he will only do so if No's 1,2 & 3 get room to do their individual things and put them on display. That way your 4 sets of clients get to contribute and benefit from the experience of practising and sharing.

So, in seeking answers to your 4 questions I would broadly recommend that you give priority to flexibility for 2, 3, & 4 and No. 1 will turn up to be creative ...

"Under the Rainbow" might be a suitably vague title

[Meryem Ersoz]

it's an interesting question, but i think that our "client" base is, perhaps, not so narrow...anyone who signs up is welcome. we won't discriminate on the basis of politics, camera size, or hair color.

is trying to make something look beautiful considered activism? beauty, truth. truth, beauty. i'd rather be beautiful than right.

i think it was dale who said it best, that he was happy to see a video challenge that fit his genre. loosely speaking, the DV Challenge seems to attract more narrative videographers, this will be geared more towards the documentary set, i believe. but these categorizations are very loose. i made a doc-styled video for a DV Challenge. others have as well. i'm sure that we will generate narratives along the way.

maybe another way to consider it is, the DV Challenge tends to attract people who want to craft an idea (give it shape, that is...narrative form leaps to mind), this will be more geared towards following an idea, wherever the musk ox decides to lead...

anyway, this is waxing a bit too philosophical. i'm really about entertaining suggestions for running a contest that pleases the participants, rather than examining its base. everybody who plays, wins.

[Nick Ambrose]

Originally Posted by Meryem Ersoz

...then this would be a good chance to dry you off and try something new. welcome aboard, nick.

the one thing i do not want to do is run this contest while DVC7 is going on (especially because i want to sign up for DVC7, if it falls in the post-Christmas time slot...). people should be able to do both...i'll defer to dylan's scheduling...

one charitable cause that i contribute regularly to here in boulder runs an annual film festival that focuses on these types of films. i may look into getting a slot for our winners...so one other pay-off may potentially be a film festival credit. that would be a nice motivator....

heh, thanks. I am actually pretty embarrassed at my lack of knowledge/skill filming topside (I usually shoot just enough to frame my U/W stuff).

At least underwater I can claim the particles/lack of light/anything else caused me to mess up the shot :)

I am shooting the Sony FX1 and Sony PC-350 underwater right now.

[Mat Thompson]

So guys......do we have a plan for this now???

[Chris Barcellos]

I think Meryem was giving it 10 days for rumination, and that seems like we should hear something definitive by about Tuesday next week....