New leadership, new rules for UWOL...

Lorinda Norton · August 30th, 2011, 12:11 PM

We're going with #2 in your post, Geir! :) That way all the videos will be in one place. I'm still trying to figure out Vimeo Pro but it looks like you all will upload your videos just like you would in your other Vimeo accounts, then I'll move them into the portfolio dedicated to UWOL 21. If there is a way to upload them directly to that portfolio I haven't found it yet. Eventually, I will try to make portfolios to accomodate prior challenges, but that will be a huge undertaking, involving uploading every past video. The plan is for the winning video to be the "portrait" video for that challenge.

And yes to your first question--no file size limit for uploading to the Vimeo Pro account. I did follow their recommendation and not request that the source files be saved. So yes, again--those of you with Vimeo Plus and your own Web sites are encouraged to post videos from those on your feedback threads if you'd like.

Geir Inge · August 30th, 2011, 12:17 PM

Lorinda
Thanks for the answer and fast response :)

Marj Atkins · August 30th, 2011, 02:17 PM

Regarding rule #7

Caveat: As the subject of Vimeo T&Cs has been raised as a problem may I raise yet another, perhaps more important problem that all players here should be aware of?

It is a fact that even if you set your video on Vimeo to “not downloadable”, it is NOT protected at all. (Nor, incidentally, is it protected on any other website including personal ones.) There are many free software packages (including screen capture software) designed to override this ‘protection’!

Now this is only important in view of the fact that many of us are understandably keen to put up the best quality – the cleanest, sharpest footage possible, but unfortunately it is open to abuse by unethical, dishonest people. It has been stated before on this forum that two players have had some of their footage actually broadcast on TV without their prior knowledge or permission!

It is for this reason that I personally made the choice some time ago to upload my work highly compressed and plastered with a copyright watermark. Quite frankly, for me “Soft and mushy” is just fine. As long as I have the original footage safely stored and it is crisp and clean I am not too worried about how it looks on the Uwol Challenge website or on Vimeo as long as it is reasonable enough to be watched and judged. To me it is far more important for us as amateur videographers to get the technique of movie-making right without having to worry about the absolute necessity for crisp clean compression. While this is obviously a personal choice I believe that we should strive to get the story, filming and editing right first. In the end it really boils down to how much you value your footage. I for one won’t be uploading high quality compression for these challenges.

Hope this helps

Mike Sims · August 30th, 2011, 02:46 PM

Good point, Marj. While I don’t really worry about Vimeo using any of my footage, I just assume that it will be stolen by members of the public- mostly without intended malice. I started watermarking (lightly I hope). More even than limiting quality, for me it means filtering which clips I will use. For example, some of the clips from last time I would not have used under the new rules. Even though I only ever linked to that video from my feedback thread somehow it got out. I have been contacted four times asking permission to use the cave salamander footage (without compensation, of course!) and, no doubt, eventually I will see it used somewhere without permission. I think that is just the nature of the internet, unfortunately. If it had been on Vimeo (or to be fair any other similar service) it would have just been worse!

Robert Martens · August 30th, 2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marj Atkins

Quite frankly, for me “Soft and mushy” is just fine.

I hope no one took offense at my suggestions earlier. It wasn't my desire to force you to change the way you do things around here, only offer advice such that no one had to be stuck with lower quality output than they wanted.

I can't say I agree with the idea of intentional compression artifacts (or watermarks) as a way to try to protect your content, but if you do it that way it should be a choice, not something you're forced to live with; I'm sorry if my remarks seemed confrontational, that was never my intent.

Lorinda Norton · August 30th, 2011, 06:43 PM

I think I can safely speak for Marj and anyone else in saying your earlier remarks weren't taken as confrontational or offensive. The idea is to keep a pristine copy safe while putting up a "less than desireable for pirating" version online.

On another note, anyone who wants to put up a feedback thread early is very welcome to do so, and I'll just lock 'em up until Sept. 1. :)

Trond Saetre · August 31st, 2011, 04:04 AM

Lorinda,
I think the new rules seem fine. (With the #11 as the most important one of course)

Regarding the file size:
I see there is no limits to the file size or image size we can upload. Does this mean that we can upload anything from SD to 1080p?
I can see a potential "problem" with the 50GB yearly limit if enough players upload big "full hd" videos 4 times a year.

Lorinda Norton · August 31st, 2011, 08:18 AM

There is that "happy" potential, Trond. Too bad we can't roll over storage space from this year to next, since we're barely going to put a dent in it this year. We'll see what Chris wants to do for 2012.

Marj Atkins · August 31st, 2011, 08:39 AM

Robert
No there is nothing offensive in what you said at all :) . . . just needed to make sure everyone here knows what they are getting into when putting up pristine footage.

Mike
It was those girls I tell you! :) . . . bet they are very proud of your film!

Trond
Re Rule #1 – guess you’ll be organizing another fun video before December hey? :)

Kevin Railsback · August 31st, 2011, 09:34 AM

Lorinda said that she has it set so Vimeo won't save the source files. So even if you upload a two gig file, Vimeo is going to compress it and dump the source file. I think 50gig will do us for a while.

Lorinda Norton · August 31st, 2011, 09:47 AM

*slaps forehead* Well, of course. Thank you for clearing that up, Kevin! :)

As for a fun challenge between now and December, I think it's a great idea, especially for shooters who get to enjoy the distinct four seasons. Sure would hate to miss out on seeing the colors and wildlife antics that can go along with the change in season.

Trond Saetre · September 1st, 2011, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marj Atkins

Trond
Re Rule #1 – guess you’ll be organizing another fun video before December hey? :)

You never know what might happen :)
(But due to my workload the next 2 months, I am not sure if I will be able to participate or organize anything before late October/early November, which will be (too?) close to the annual DVC/UWOL charity challenge in December)

Simon Wood · September 20th, 2011, 06:29 AM

I was just wondering about the UWOL website ( The UWOL Challenge - Wildlife & Outdoor based film competition ) - will this continue to be the main hub for the competition with videos hyper-linked through to the vimeo account?

I noticed that the Film Vault there only goes up to Challenge 20 and the Winners Circle only goes up to Challenge 19 (I figured I'd mention that last one as I need a place to direct people to make use of bragging rights - I don't win too many competitions so I need to make the most of it)!

Lorinda Norton · September 20th, 2011, 06:04 PM

Simon, I believe we're just going to put links on the UWOL Web site and gravitate more toward the Vimeo Pro account. Thanks for making me move on this--I had *ahem* kind of forgotten about it. :)

UWOL 21 entries have been moved to the portfolio. I think the portfolio looks kind of cool...let me know if you agree! UWOL 21

Chris Hurd · September 20th, 2011, 07:19 PM

I was really hoping to see the UWOL Challenge site morph into something that looks kind of like this:

Videoworks Showcase

That's DVi member Josh Dahlberg's site -- made with Vimeo Pro, and done entirely on his own domain, no Vimeo branding anywhere.

See his feedback about it here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...ml#post1674385

The concept I had in mind was to use the Vimeo Pro account to flesh out the UWOL Challenge site and to embed clips right here in the forum -- not to drive traffic to Vimeo. They're great folks and all, and the V Pro account is a wonderful thing, but the whole idea behind using Vimeo Pro is to keep eyeballs where they belong, which is here, and to build up the UWOL Challenge site.

Toward that end, what I'd like to see for the next UWOL Challenge round is all entries embedded in their own players right here on the forum. No need to click away to Vimeo or anywhere else. That's one of the main reasons why I bought the V Pro account, to build up the UWOL / DVi brand -- not Vimeo's. Thanks for understanding and please take a good look at Josh's site, linked above. That's what I had in mind for the UWOL Challenge.

August 30th, 2011, 12:11 PM	#31
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	Re: New leadership, new rules for UWOL... We're going with #2 in your post, Geir! :) That way all the videos will be in one place. I'm still trying to figure out Vimeo Pro but it looks like you all will upload your videos just like you would in your other Vimeo accounts, then I'll move them into the portfolio dedicated to UWOL 21. If there is a way to upload them directly to that portfolio I haven't found it yet. Eventually, I will try to make portfolios to accomodate prior challenges, but that will be a huge undertaking, involving uploading every past video. The plan is for the winning video to be the "portrait" video for that challenge. And yes to your first question--no file size limit for uploading to the Vimeo Pro account. I did follow their recommendation and not request that the source files be saved. So yes, again--those of you with Vimeo Plus and your own Web sites are encouraged to post videos from those on your feedback threads if you'd like. __________________ Lorinda

August 30th, 2011, 12:17 PM	#32
Geir Inge Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Larsnes, Norway Posts: 1,343	Re: New leadership, new rules for UWOL... Lorinda Thanks for the answer and fast response :) __________________ Geir Inge B. Brekke Visit me at: https://vimeo.com/gibbfilm

August 30th, 2011, 02:17 PM	#33
Marj Atkins Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Johannesburg South Africa Posts: 768	Re: New leadership, new rules for UWOL... Regarding rule #7 Caveat: As the subject of Vimeo T&Cs has been raised as a problem may I raise yet another, perhaps more important problem that all players here should be aware of? It is a fact that even if you set your video on Vimeo to “not downloadable”, it is NOT protected at all. (Nor, incidentally, is it protected on any other website including personal ones.) There are many free software packages (including screen capture software) designed to override this ‘protection’! Now this is only important in view of the fact that many of us are understandably keen to put up the best quality – the cleanest, sharpest footage possible, but unfortunately it is open to abuse by unethical, dishonest people. It has been stated before on this forum that two players have had some of their footage actually broadcast on TV without their prior knowledge or permission! It is for this reason that I personally made the choice some time ago to upload my work highly compressed and plastered with a copyright watermark. Quite frankly, for me “Soft and mushy” is just fine. As long as I have the original footage safely stored and it is crisp and clean I am not too worried about how it looks on the Uwol Challenge website or on Vimeo as long as it is reasonable enough to be watched and judged. To me it is far more important for us as amateur videographers to get the technique of movie-making right without having to worry about the absolute necessity for crisp clean compression. While this is obviously a personal choice I believe that we should strive to get the story, filming and editing right first. In the end it really boils down to how much you value your footage. I for one won’t be uploading high quality compression for these challenges. Hope this helps

August 30th, 2011, 02:46 PM	#34
Mike Sims Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 880	Re: New leadership, new rules for UWOL... Good point, Marj. While I don’t really worry about Vimeo using any of my footage, I just assume that it will be stolen by members of the public- mostly without intended malice. I started watermarking (lightly I hope). More even than limiting quality, for me it means filtering which clips I will use. For example, some of the clips from last time I would not have used under the new rules. Even though I only ever linked to that video from my feedback thread somehow it got out. I have been contacted four times asking permission to use the cave salamander footage (without compensation, of course!) and, no doubt, eventually I will see it used somewhere without permission. I think that is just the nature of the internet, unfortunately. If it had been on Vimeo (or to be fair any other similar service) it would have just been worse!

August 30th, 2011, 06:43 PM	#36
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	Re: New leadership, new rules for UWOL... I think I can safely speak for Marj and anyone else in saying your earlier remarks weren't taken as confrontational or offensive. The idea is to keep a pristine copy safe while putting up a "less than desireable for pirating" version online. On another note, anyone who wants to put up a feedback thread early is very welcome to do so, and I'll just lock 'em up until Sept. 1. :) __________________ Lorinda

August 31st, 2011, 04:04 AM	#37
Trond Saetre Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 3,375	Re: New leadership, new rules for UWOL... Lorinda, I think the new rules seem fine. (With the #11 as the most important one of course) Regarding the file size: I see there is no limits to the file size or image size we can upload. Does this mean that we can upload anything from SD to 1080p? I can see a potential "problem" with the 50GB yearly limit if enough players upload big "full hd" videos 4 times a year.

August 31st, 2011, 08:18 AM	#38
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	Re: New leadership, new rules for UWOL... There is that "happy" potential, Trond. Too bad we can't roll over storage space from this year to next, since we're barely going to put a dent in it this year. We'll see what Chris wants to do for 2012. __________________ Lorinda

August 31st, 2011, 08:39 AM	#39
Marj Atkins Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Johannesburg South Africa Posts: 768	Re: New leadership, new rules for UWOL... Robert No there is nothing offensive in what you said at all :) . . . just needed to make sure everyone here knows what they are getting into when putting up pristine footage. Mike It was those girls I tell you! :) . . . bet they are very proud of your film! Trond Re Rule #1 – guess you’ll be organizing another fun video before December hey? :)

August 31st, 2011, 09:34 AM	#40
Kevin Railsback Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa Posts: 1,544	Re: New leadership, new rules for UWOL... Lorinda said that she has it set so Vimeo won't save the source files. So even if you upload a two gig file, Vimeo is going to compress it and dump the source file. I think 50gig will do us for a while. __________________ --==Kevin==-- http:naturephotostudios.com.com

August 31st, 2011, 09:47 AM	#41
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	Re: New leadership, new rules for UWOL... slaps forehead Well, of course. Thank you for clearing that up, Kevin! :) As for a fun challenge between now and December, I think it's a great idea, especially for shooters who get to enjoy the distinct four seasons. Sure would hate to miss out on seeing the colors and wildlife antics that can go along with the change in season. __________________ Lorinda Last edited by Lorinda Norton; August 31st, 2011 at 10:39 AM.

September 20th, 2011, 06:29 AM	#43
Simon Wood Major Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Entebbe Uganda Posts: 768	Re: New leadership, new rules for UWOL... I was just wondering about the UWOL website ( The UWOL Challenge - Wildlife & Outdoor based film competition ) - will this continue to be the main hub for the competition with videos hyper-linked through to the vimeo account? I noticed that the Film Vault there only goes up to Challenge 20 and the Winners Circle only goes up to Challenge 19 (I figured I'd mention that last one as I need a place to direct people to make use of bragging rights - I don't win too many competitions so I need to make the most of it)! __________________ http://vimeo.com/channels/guerrillafilms

September 20th, 2011, 06:04 PM	#44
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	Re: New leadership, new rules for UWOL... Simon, I believe we're just going to put links on the UWOL Web site and gravitate more toward the Vimeo Pro account. Thanks for making me move on this--I had ahem kind of forgotten about it. :) UWOL 21 entries have been moved to the portfolio. I think the portfolio looks kind of cool...let me know if you agree! UWOL 21 __________________ Lorinda

September 20th, 2011, 07:19 PM	#45
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Re: New leadership, new rules for UWOL... I was really hoping to see the UWOL Challenge site morph into something that looks kind of like this: Videoworks Showcase That's DVi member Josh Dahlberg's site -- made with Vimeo Pro, and done entirely on his own domain, no Vimeo branding anywhere. See his feedback about it here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...ml#post1674385 The concept I had in mind was to use the Vimeo Pro account to flesh out the UWOL Challenge site and to embed clips right here in the forum -- not to drive traffic to Vimeo. They're great folks and all, and the V Pro account is a wonderful thing, but the whole idea behind using Vimeo Pro is to keep eyeballs where they belong, which is here, and to build up the UWOL Challenge site. Toward that end, what I'd like to see for the next UWOL Challenge round is all entries embedded in their own players right here on the forum. No need to click away to Vimeo or anywhere else. That's one of the main reasons why I bought the V Pro account, to build up the UWOL / DVi brand -- not Vimeo's. Thanks for understanding and please take a good look at Josh's site, linked above. That's what I had in mind for the UWOL Challenge. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!