A Big Huzzah to Long Form Finishers - The Giant Feedback Thread

Finn-Erik Faale · November 30th, 2009, 04:01 PM

Dale,
you have a very interesting project. I did not know anything about coaching falcons before watching this.
I think your first part is the best.
I specially appreciate the sequence showing traveling and fetching the small bird in the mountain.
You are good to talk in front of the camera. The guitar, falcon, cat scene is fantastic.
Maybe you should lower the music level a bit on voice over.
The second part could profit on economizing on the hunting scenes. You have some very good flying shots which could be amazing, shortened down and clipped together.

Dale Guthormsen · December 1st, 2009, 09:05 AM

Finn-Erik,

thanks for taking the time to view it and the constructive criticism.

I am going to rework the Hunting scenes totally. I will be pulling in footage shot outside of the challenge. I knew the flight sequences were to long. I built them last January-spring. What I learned is when you nest a project all the audio goes onto a single time line, it does not bring the audio in project format. that was news to me. Hence If I cut any sequences it interupted the audio. What I now have to do is go back and rebuild them without any background audio, place them in the current project then put in the background score. I also will reduce actual flying time, but I do not want to give the impression it only takes seconds for the whole thing to happen.
Bottom line, I have work to do!!

Mike,

I agree there is a fair amount of vernacular unique to the subject, I was aware of that and did try to explain as much as time alowed, but I proabably should have done more explaining. I tried to make it so general public could follow it but not dumb it down so much aspiring or experienced falconers would be put off. Probably should go one way or the other in hind sight.

Trond Saetre · December 1st, 2009, 10:32 AM

Dale,

A very nice film you made! You really show how much hard work it takes to train those birds, and quite a bit of hiking too.

You do well both in front of the camera and behind it, and the story you tell is really interesting. Nice, calm VO. Well done.

A few times, you had some sequences with different aspect ratio. I believe it would have been better if everything was the same instead of mixing it.
As you comment yourself in the post before mine here, a few bird clips were a little long.
Like the clip at around 2 minutes in part 2. (The bird flying with only the blue sky as background)

Finn-Erik Faale · December 1st, 2009, 01:47 PM

Rob,
I am sorry about your father's health and your own health problems before the finishing date.
Your film is a pleasure to watch. You show the Cliveden area with so many interesting aspects. Your video has high technical quality and it is a pleasure to view throughout the whole film.
You also have a narrating talent in front of the camera.
I wish you all the best for the film's future.

Finn-Erik Faale · December 1st, 2009, 03:38 PM

Cat,
I am so glad you were able to deliver your video to the last round.
It is always interesting to observe your creative way of making exciting film. What a nature you can show up with, followed by these great masterpieces of music. Your animations are very good, and your voice over is always crystal clear.
If you need to shorten the video a bit, I will suggest to do some in the beginning and some in the end section with the information and credits.

Bob Safay · December 1st, 2009, 03:55 PM

Mike and Trond, thanks for the feed back. This has been a great challenge. I was fortunate to get to go to the Galapagos at the right time. My hardest part was comming up with the footage for the two uploads before I even left the country to video. I am trying to watch an entry a night. Right now I would propose to Meryem that since there are only eight left that we all send dvd's to the judge. I pity the poor person that has to choose between all those great videos. Everyone put so much work into these. Like the others, I am saddened that so many really good videographers had to drop out of the contest. I have my video on Vimeo, but as this was my first try with Vimeo I am afraid the resolution is not as good as it should. I posted my mpeg-4 one instead of a windows media file.

Cat, we will be watching yours this evening.

Bob

Steve Siegel · December 1st, 2009, 04:34 PM

Bob,
The Galapagos is one of those places I will probably never see, but your perspective on it, and the shots you got of the birds makes it almost unnecessary. I really enjoyed your interpretation of the Islands. The one suggestion I would make is that you might want to run your audio through a noise filter to cut back on some of the wind, and to remove the electrical hum.

Steve Siegel · December 1st, 2009, 04:36 PM

Finn-Eric
After a long day, I watched your film again just to relax. It worked. Your weaving of rich color and sound, land and sea are close to perfect. So is your choice of music. I would like to see this piece on a big screen.

Steve Siegel · December 1st, 2009, 04:36 PM

Dale,
With all the tribulation you have had to bear in the making of this film, I was glad to see your final product. Just how long do you keep a bird? Do you have a whole stable of them, or do you release them at some point? Are they allowed to hunt all year, or during the off season is it chicken?

Rob Evans · December 1st, 2009, 04:47 PM

Dale, you presented us with a really amazing story,and your passion for it shines through. I remember talking to a documentary filmmaker a few years ago, and his number one shining rule was "shoot the cr*p out of everything!" - i felt that if you had more cutaways, different angles and frames, it would really help the visual flow a lot, and stop you from having to rely on jump cuts as much as you did.
I loved the way that the vast landscape plays such a role in your film, and was really sucked into your environment. The behaviour aspect of the birds themselves I found fascinating, particularly after walking over a hill a few months back and getting "buzzed" by an immature perigrine in training - it's backfilled a lot of the story for me. found the long flight sequences a little too long, perhaps just again need a wider / closer shot or a shot of the handler fixed on the horizon.
Overall, great job - thanks for showing me your world!

Bob Safay · December 1st, 2009, 05:15 PM

Cat, oh my what a wonderous thing you have created. I tip my lens cap to you. Your video was... well lets just say magnificent. Not only was the story great, but those graphics were outstanding, and the music perfect! The one chapter where you fade to black to match the music was great. Your video bought back so many memories, not only did I work there during the summer of '75, but my wife and I did most of our courting at Rocky Mountain. As a matter of fact we walked up to Cub lake two years ago and I videoed the water lillies there. With your permission I would like to send this to my nephew and his family that like in Fort Collins and spend lots of time in the park. Cat, again, you did a really magnificent job. Your love of the park, its flora and fauna really expressed itself. Thank you for such an enjoyable experiance. Bob

Chris Swanberg · December 1st, 2009, 09:26 PM

Bob... I watched your entry last evening. I must say that inspite of the tight time constraints you had to shoot your film, you managed to make a nearly perfect film on the variety of life in the Galapagos, make it interesting. and keep the viewer's interest. Your titles were well done and the soundtrack was about as good as I can image anyone doing. The VO was very listenable, and the narration interesting. Professional !!!

My only minor critique/suggestion is that to me, your ending was a little abrupt. Might I suggest that maybe you do a 30second reprise of the trip at the end?

Having "been there - done that" I have found myself caught without footage to cut to, in, or otherwise use... the "reprise" might soften the ending a little. Just an idea.

Like I said almost a year ago - "Take us with you!" ...and you DID ! Thank you for a wonderful film !

Chris S.

ps. I cannot say enough about your sound levels, mix, etc...best soundtrack so far. Edits were very pleasing as well.

pps. Oh! The prop plane foley with a jet on the screen may need a little retooling, maybe? <g>.

Meryem Ersoz · December 1st, 2009, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Safay

Right now I would propose to Meryem that since there are only eight left that we all send dvd's to the judge. I pity the poor person that has to choose between all those great videos.

One note on judging - I was a fool to think that I could have an outcome by Dec. 1...so the outcome is postponed, don't have a specific date yet, I am still watching the films. And will have to watch more than once....

The really hard part is that, without an overarching theme like we are used to, the judging process becomes very "apples to oranges," another unanticipated outcome.

Lots to grapple with, on the judging end.

All of you can send me your mailing addresses, for your hard-earned t-shirts, though. I only have L and XL left, I think.

Marj Atkins · December 2nd, 2009, 07:21 AM

Steve - a beautiful film. I can't say it more eloquently than Rob has. You have given us spectacular visuals and some very rare sightings of the birds of the USA. Very well done!

I did not count the list at the end but you have a sizeable collection there that you should be able to compile into films of all sorts in the future and I'm sure that, together with the species you collected before this challenge, you must have a good percentage of the birds of USA on film by now. How many bird species do you have in the United States?

My passion for filming birds is what got me to DVinfo and this challenge in the first place, so I can appreciate just how difficult some of those scenes were to film. You
follow individual birds masterfully with the camera - not easy.

Just a couple of observations for all they're worth:

I enjoyed so many parts of this film but especially the white birds, the birds in the 'land of the barking seals' and the camouflage sequence. I am a very impatient TV viewer but your film held my attention all the way. However, I still feel it it is a tad too long overall. My feeling is that if you trimmed some sections a little it would be perfect. (for the likes of me that is) :)

I realize your introduction is part and parcel of submitting a personal film but in a way, it pins it to the family so to speak and for me it came as a bit of a surprise. I would suggest rethinking this.

Finn-Erik Faale · December 2nd, 2009, 03:19 PM

Marj,
Your video is impressing. The easy way of showing the mathematics in the nature is excellent. Your animated figures could hardly be better, the time-lapsing growing plants are very good and your clean narrating is easy for me to understand.
I think 90 minutes would be to long for that sort of video.
Then you have to make some sequences in strong contrast to the mathematical elements. How to do this is not easy to figure out.
What about three films, each in 30 minutes length?

December 1st, 2009, 09:05 AM	#47
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Finn-Erik, thanks for taking the time to view it and the constructive criticism. I am going to rework the Hunting scenes totally. I will be pulling in footage shot outside of the challenge. I knew the flight sequences were to long. I built them last January-spring. What I learned is when you nest a project all the audio goes onto a single time line, it does not bring the audio in project format. that was news to me. Hence If I cut any sequences it interupted the audio. What I now have to do is go back and rebuild them without any background audio, place them in the current project then put in the background score. I also will reduce actual flying time, but I do not want to give the impression it only takes seconds for the whole thing to happen. Bottom line, I have work to do!! Mike, I agree there is a fair amount of vernacular unique to the subject, I was aware of that and did try to explain as much as time alowed, but I proabably should have done more explaining. I tried to make it so general public could follow it but not dumb it down so much aspiring or experienced falconers would be put off. Probably should go one way or the other in hind sight. __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen

December 1st, 2009, 03:55 PM	#51
Bob Safay Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,558	Mike and Trond, thanks for the feed back. This has been a great challenge. I was fortunate to get to go to the Galapagos at the right time. My hardest part was comming up with the footage for the two uploads before I even left the country to video. I am trying to watch an entry a night. Right now I would propose to Meryem that since there are only eight left that we all send dvd's to the judge. I pity the poor person that has to choose between all those great videos. Everyone put so much work into these. Like the others, I am saddened that so many really good videographers had to drop out of the contest. I have my video on Vimeo, but as this was my first try with Vimeo I am afraid the resolution is not as good as it should. I posted my mpeg-4 one instead of a windows media file. Cat, we will be watching yours this evening. Bob Last edited by Bob Safay; December 1st, 2009 at 04:30 PM.

November 30th, 2009, 04:01 PM	#46
Finn-Erik Faale Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Porsgrunn Norway Posts: 280	Dale, you have a very interesting project. I did not know anything about coaching falcons before watching this. I think your first part is the best. I specially appreciate the sequence showing traveling and fetching the small bird in the mountain. You are good to talk in front of the camera. The guitar, falcon, cat scene is fantastic. Maybe you should lower the music level a bit on voice over. The second part could profit on economizing on the hunting scenes. You have some very good flying shots which could be amazing, shortened down and clipped together.

December 1st, 2009, 10:32 AM	#48
Trond Saetre Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 3,375	Dale, A very nice film you made! You really show how much hard work it takes to train those birds, and quite a bit of hiking too. You do well both in front of the camera and behind it, and the story you tell is really interesting. Nice, calm VO. Well done. A few times, you had some sequences with different aspect ratio. I believe it would have been better if everything was the same instead of mixing it. As you comment yourself in the post before mine here, a few bird clips were a little long. Like the clip at around 2 minutes in part 2. (The bird flying with only the blue sky as background)

December 1st, 2009, 01:47 PM	#49
Finn-Erik Faale Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Porsgrunn Norway Posts: 280	Rob, I am sorry about your father's health and your own health problems before the finishing date. Your film is a pleasure to watch. You show the Cliveden area with so many interesting aspects. Your video has high technical quality and it is a pleasure to view throughout the whole film. You also have a narrating talent in front of the camera. I wish you all the best for the film's future.

December 1st, 2009, 03:38 PM	#50
Finn-Erik Faale Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Porsgrunn Norway Posts: 280	Cat, I am so glad you were able to deliver your video to the last round. It is always interesting to observe your creative way of making exciting film. What a nature you can show up with, followed by these great masterpieces of music. Your animations are very good, and your voice over is always crystal clear. If you need to shorten the video a bit, I will suggest to do some in the beginning and some in the end section with the information and credits.

December 1st, 2009, 04:34 PM	#52
Steve Siegel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Posts: 840	Bob, The Galapagos is one of those places I will probably never see, but your perspective on it, and the shots you got of the birds makes it almost unnecessary. I really enjoyed your interpretation of the Islands. The one suggestion I would make is that you might want to run your audio through a noise filter to cut back on some of the wind, and to remove the electrical hum.

December 1st, 2009, 04:36 PM	#53
Steve Siegel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Posts: 840	Finn-Eric After a long day, I watched your film again just to relax. It worked. Your weaving of rich color and sound, land and sea are close to perfect. So is your choice of music. I would like to see this piece on a big screen.

December 1st, 2009, 04:47 PM	#55
Rob Evans Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 390	Dale, you presented us with a really amazing story,and your passion for it shines through. I remember talking to a documentary filmmaker a few years ago, and his number one shining rule was "shoot the cr*p out of everything!" - i felt that if you had more cutaways, different angles and frames, it would really help the visual flow a lot, and stop you from having to rely on jump cuts as much as you did. I loved the way that the vast landscape plays such a role in your film, and was really sucked into your environment. The behaviour aspect of the birds themselves I found fascinating, particularly after walking over a hill a few months back and getting "buzzed" by an immature perigrine in training - it's backfilled a lot of the story for me. found the long flight sequences a little too long, perhaps just again need a wider / closer shot or a shot of the handler fixed on the horizon. Overall, great job - thanks for showing me your world!

December 1st, 2009, 05:15 PM	#56
Bob Safay Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,558	Cat, oh my what a wonderous thing you have created. I tip my lens cap to you. Your video was... well lets just say magnificent. Not only was the story great, but those graphics were outstanding, and the music perfect! The one chapter where you fade to black to match the music was great. Your video bought back so many memories, not only did I work there during the summer of '75, but my wife and I did most of our courting at Rocky Mountain. As a matter of fact we walked up to Cub lake two years ago and I videoed the water lillies there. With your permission I would like to send this to my nephew and his family that like in Fort Collins and spend lots of time in the park. Cat, again, you did a really magnificent job. Your love of the park, its flora and fauna really expressed itself. Thank you for such an enjoyable experiance. Bob

December 1st, 2009, 09:26 PM	#57
Chris Swanberg Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 904	Bob... I watched your entry last evening. I must say that inspite of the tight time constraints you had to shoot your film, you managed to make a nearly perfect film on the variety of life in the Galapagos, make it interesting. and keep the viewer's interest. Your titles were well done and the soundtrack was about as good as I can image anyone doing. The VO was very listenable, and the narration interesting. Professional !!! My only minor critique/suggestion is that to me, your ending was a little abrupt. Might I suggest that maybe you do a 30second reprise of the trip at the end? Having "been there - done that" I have found myself caught without footage to cut to, in, or otherwise use... the "reprise" might soften the ending a little. Just an idea. Like I said almost a year ago - "Take us with you!" ...and you DID ! Thank you for a wonderful film ! Chris S. ps. I cannot say enough about your sound levels, mix, etc...best soundtrack so far. Edits were very pleasing as well. pps. Oh! The prop plane foley with a jet on the screen may need a little retooling, maybe? <g>.

December 2nd, 2009, 07:21 AM	#59
Marj Atkins Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Johannesburg South Africa Posts: 768	Steve - a beautiful film. I can't say it more eloquently than Rob has. You have given us spectacular visuals and some very rare sightings of the birds of the USA. Very well done! I did not count the list at the end but you have a sizeable collection there that you should be able to compile into films of all sorts in the future and I'm sure that, together with the species you collected before this challenge, you must have a good percentage of the birds of USA on film by now. How many bird species do you have in the United States? My passion for filming birds is what got me to DVinfo and this challenge in the first place, so I can appreciate just how difficult some of those scenes were to film. You follow individual birds masterfully with the camera - not easy. Just a couple of observations for all they're worth: I enjoyed so many parts of this film but especially the white birds, the birds in the 'land of the barking seals' and the camouflage sequence. I am a very impatient TV viewer but your film held my attention all the way. However, I still feel it it is a tad too long overall. My feeling is that if you trimmed some sections a little it would be perfect. (for the likes of me that is) :) I realize your introduction is part and parcel of submitting a personal film but in a way, it pins it to the family so to speak and for me it came as a bit of a surprise. I would suggest rethinking this.

December 2nd, 2009, 03:19 PM	#60
Finn-Erik Faale Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Porsgrunn Norway Posts: 280	Marj, Your video is impressing. The easy way of showing the mathematics in the nature is excellent. Your animated figures could hardly be better, the time-lapsing growing plants are very good and your clean narrating is easy for me to understand. I think 90 minutes would be to long for that sort of video. Then you have to make some sequences in strong contrast to the mathematical elements. How to do this is not easy to figure out. What about three films, each in 30 minutes length?