Hunting The Hard Way, Long Form

Geir Inge · July 23rd, 2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Guthormsen

.....The more i have worked on this the more i realize I need a second operator for a second camera or for audio collection......

Hi Dale.
As I have told you before, I love your falcon shots.
I can not agreed with you more that one of the major challenges in this ULF, is to make a whole film (no longer 3 min, but 20 or more) and just be one single man/woman behind one camera. It is a huge job, but I think your "Hunting the hard way" is on the right track.

All the best.
Geir Inge

Dale Guthormsen · August 13th, 2009, 01:20 PM

Here is a larger file of my third submission. This is the beggining of Part one of the three part series I am working on putting together. It looks more like it is going to be a two part at this point in time.
there is about 5 more minutes of developmental footage to go in then showing the training/cultivation aspects. We are working on that footage presently.

It is a farely large file so download it and then have a coffee or something.

I look forward to constructive ideas to make it better than it is, The audio is just put in place temporarily. Open to ideas for background music/audio.

Don't cut me any slack criticising, but be certain to give me options to improve areas.

As I assemble more of it I will post links for discussion.

Uwol Longform"The search" on Vimeo

Steve Siegel · August 13th, 2009, 03:06 PM

Hi Dale,
Looks like your show is really taking shape now. You really give a good idea of the desolation of the area you chose to search. I would have liked to heard a little different music at about 4 and a half minutes, when the falconer is rapelling down the cliffside. It's a little too warm and fuzzy for such a dangerous activity. Can't wait to see some of the hunting shots later in the season.

Mike Sims · August 14th, 2009, 09:28 AM

Dale- This edited sequence is starting to look very like a finished piece I think. Here are some suggestions to think about. Some of the shots are kind of dark- probably the time of day. They are really obvious when you cut from a dark shot to a bird flying in a bright sky. You might try opening up the exposure a little. Try a notch filter on the wind in the scene around 2:20. I think the wind sound is important to that scene so don’t remove it all, but if you bring it down some your dialogue will be better. When the hammer strikes the metal post the spike really clips. Try bringing the sound level down briefly for each blow. Around 5:33 someone says “To your right…” They are standing much closer to the microphone than the other dialogue in that scene so you might bring the level down there also. In the voice over starting around 6:40 the level seems lower than the rest of the sequence- maybe bring it up a bit? All in all this is looking pretty polished. I can’t wait to see the next part about raising and training the chick.

Geir Inge · August 15th, 2009, 10:05 AM

Good afternoon Dale.

First I must say I think your video is great.
I think I can see the shape you're painting and how the final film might turn out in the end.
Ok, I have some, not criticism, but more like questions to your nr 3 video.

From 1:20 (on the way to the rock) is it an idea to make it more exiting by dwelling around the question; will we be so lucky to find a falcons nest in the rocks?

You mention just in the start of the walk, something like; "It's a long walk, you just have to do the job". Nothing wrong with this, but is there another way you can show it's been a hard walk? The walker seems more like a healthy young man who's jogging to the rock. This, I guess can be easily changed by the narrator?

The climbing scene down to the nest is awesome, I must say. I guess it's too late now, but still it would have been great with a close-up of the climber :) hands, feet, grabbing the rock, loosing grip, etc I guess this can be done without getting back to the original cliffs?

OK, that's all for now.

All the best my friend.
Geir Inge

Finn-Erik Faale · August 15th, 2009, 01:28 PM

Dale,

Interesting work you have for round #3. I am fascinated of the climbing sequence.
As Geir Inge suggests, it would be even better with a close-up. I think this can be done in posterity. Example: hands adjusting the rope with blue background.

Dale Guthormsen · August 16th, 2009, 01:24 PM

Good afternoon,

thanks everyone for taking the time to give me such helpful suggestions.

Geir, I cropped in a little closer for part of the climbing sequence. do not know if I can get an aftertake of the hands to put in, see how things unfold the next two months. that was a good suggestion.
I am not really trying to make things more exciting, just recording things as they actually occur.

Mike, I addressed each of the aspects of the audio that you mentioned. the dark trees with the merlins then the sky shot I went back and did some work on that an it is better as well.
the suggestions definitely helped!!

I am in vegas and find no "Notch filter" I have not really found a good way in Vegas to cut wind rumble yet. Perhaps someone else has it nailed down.
I also now have a blimp for all the wind filming, kind of the norm here!!

Steve,

I am looking for actual copyright free music that might suit. I have sonic fire pro sand open to any suggestions from that arena!!

thanks again,

will be posting next three minutes or so in the next week.

Mike Sims · August 16th, 2009, 03:03 PM

Hi Dale,
Sorry, I don’t know any Vegas. Maybe it has a high pass filter that will help. Really though, I’d take the audio over into Audition and work on it there. Try the parametric EQ. Find the center frequency of the wind and adjust the bandwidth to get only the wind and then dial the amplitude down to remove most of it. It will take some experimenting to find the right set up. What blimp did you end up getting?

Chris Swanberg · August 17th, 2009, 12:18 PM

Dale

I enjoyed your submission. Much of what I comment on here has already been commented on. To start I would go through and try and avoid what is a disconcerting repetitive change between bright and overly dark scenes. I'd try lightening the darker scenes and maybe dim down some of the brighter ones - in effect "normalizing" the brightness throughout.

I agree with Geir about the music. I use Sonic Fire and will go try and go through and see if I might suggest something better for that section on climbing down to the nest.

Overall though it is anteresting story and I am looking forward to the end result.

Chris Swanberg

Catherine Russell · August 17th, 2009, 12:47 PM

Hi Dale:

Wow! I'm so used to seeing cold and snow in your films! This is a nice switch. As far as technical suggestions for your piece, the guys have done a good job with their own suggestions so I get to list what I think is great about your film.

The topic is fascinating and something I know nothing about. I thought you pulled off filming the falconer when he was walking along with you very well. How did you do it? You give us a good sense of how hard it is to find the perfect age ~23 days old baby, and how difficult it is to get to it when you do find one. Pulling the young chick from the nest on the rappel was really exciting. I also think the falconer is quite good in front of a camera, which makes it easy to watch.

All in all, you have a good start to a good entry. It will really be fun to watch the relationship build between falcon and falconer in the next submission. Nice job Dale!

Cat

Per Johan Naesje · August 18th, 2009, 03:09 AM

Dale, as others have commented, its some great shots here!

I particularly liked the way you followed the falconer during the hike. But sound seem a bit off, when he was walking and talking. Maybe it´s something with the vimeo compression, but you should check the lip sync in the timeline?

You also got some dark scenes in the beginning of the film.

You might also speed up the editing phase when they are preparing for rappelling down the sloop.

Also as Mike mention there is some wind noise, when they´re talking. How did you wire them? I often use a wireless mic, when I have to capture conversations in windy areas. Hiding it inside the jacket and let the person stand with the wind from behind often helps.

Overall, your footage is very nice, good compositions, sharp focus and steady (even your handheld shoots!)

Looking forward to your finished film, Dale.

Dale Guthormsen · August 19th, 2009, 10:01 AM

Here is a some added footage for the following 10 minutes, still a bit rough.

It is called the eyas, and will be nested against the search.

The Eyas on Vimeo

I have really appreciated all the help!!!

I done some correction on the search: Intalled several peoples suggestions.

http://www.vimeo.com/6181320

Chris Swanberg · August 19th, 2009, 11:37 PM

Dale...some ideas for music in Sonic Fire:

Wise traveller
Red Skies
Vigilant Stance
Cinematic Action 2
Time Bomb
Trial by Fire

You can preview these with an online connection.Best of luck...

Chris

ps. I think there are places in your VO narration where you have wind noise when there is no speaker onscreen... you might consider redoing those as a "studio" VO... you could lay in a more natural background and I think the overall effect will be improved.

Mat Thompson · August 20th, 2009, 05:31 PM

Hi Dale

Well I have to say I think out of all the long form entries you have the basis of a documentry that I could see being broadcast. It has a lot of different elements to the story and you are already doing well to pull these out in the sections posted on vimeo. A lot of your footage is sharp and well exposed with nice composition and settings. - I think with the right edit and overall story you could really have something here.

However and I have to voice this opinion. I don't believe you should be taking these birds from the wild like this. I'm not going to get into my reasoning as I think it should be obvious but while I respect the love and devotion you have to your craft and these birds I don't think they should be removed from nests where the parents are perfectly capeable, given the chance of bringing up the bird themselves.

Mat

Dale Guthormsen · August 21st, 2009, 09:18 PM

Good evening,

Thank you for the comentary and suggestions, I will weigh them heavily and make adjustments.

Mat, I wont discuss politics here, not the place. I will point out that the south sask river where we filmed the repelling is about a 150 mile stetch of which there are only two natural occuring prairie falcon eyries. the cliffs are there but no pot holes.

so back in 1972 we started a hole digging project along this river and have continued up to today. we have over twenty nesting pairs on this stretch presently ( we dug and rejuvinated a few more holes this summer.

Biologically and conservatively we can fully justify the taking of no less than 10 progeny from these known eyries that we created in prime habitat that never existed due to a lack of nesting habitat. this year in our province, bigger than texas and great britin, we had one youngster taken for falconry. Needless to say impact on population is zero. there were 5 babies in the nest site covered with ticks, we cleaned them up and left four, the burden on the parents being less and a better chance for those remaining. this has nothing to do with a political statement, just the facts here as they occur.

dale

August 13th, 2009, 01:20 PM	#32
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	third Submission Here is a larger file of my third submission. This is the beggining of Part one of the three part series I am working on putting together. It looks more like it is going to be a two part at this point in time. there is about 5 more minutes of developmental footage to go in then showing the training/cultivation aspects. We are working on that footage presently. It is a farely large file so download it and then have a coffee or something. I look forward to constructive ideas to make it better than it is, The audio is just put in place temporarily. Open to ideas for background music/audio. Don't cut me any slack criticising, but be certain to give me options to improve areas. As I assemble more of it I will post links for discussion. Uwol Longform"The search" on Vimeo __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen

August 15th, 2009, 10:05 AM	#35
Geir Inge Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Larsnes, Norway Posts: 1,343	Good afternoon Dale. First I must say I think your video is great. I think I can see the shape you're painting and how the final film might turn out in the end. Ok, I have some, not criticism, but more like questions to your nr 3 video. From 1:20 (on the way to the rock) is it an idea to make it more exiting by dwelling around the question; will we be so lucky to find a falcons nest in the rocks? You mention just in the start of the walk, something like; "It's a long walk, you just have to do the job". Nothing wrong with this, but is there another way you can show it's been a hard walk? The walker seems more like a healthy young man who's jogging to the rock. This, I guess can be easily changed by the narrator? The climbing scene down to the nest is awesome, I must say. I guess it's too late now, but still it would have been great with a close-up of the climber :) hands, feet, grabbing the rock, loosing grip, etc I guess this can be done without getting back to the original cliffs? OK, that's all for now. All the best my friend. Geir Inge __________________ Geir Inge B. Brekke Visit me at: https://vimeo.com/gibbfilm Last edited by Geir Inge; August 15th, 2009 at 02:11 PM.

August 16th, 2009, 01:24 PM	#37
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Good afternoon, thanks everyone for taking the time to give me such helpful suggestions. Geir, I cropped in a little closer for part of the climbing sequence. do not know if I can get an aftertake of the hands to put in, see how things unfold the next two months. that was a good suggestion. I am not really trying to make things more exciting, just recording things as they actually occur. Mike, I addressed each of the aspects of the audio that you mentioned. the dark trees with the merlins then the sky shot I went back and did some work on that an it is better as well. the suggestions definitely helped!! I am in vegas and find no "Notch filter" I have not really found a good way in Vegas to cut wind rumble yet. Perhaps someone else has it nailed down. I also now have a blimp for all the wind filming, kind of the norm here!! Steve, I am looking for actual copyright free music that might suit. I have sonic fire pro sand open to any suggestions from that arena!! thanks again, will be posting next three minutes or so in the next week. __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen

August 18th, 2009, 03:09 AM	#41
Per Johan Naesje Trustee Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Akershus, Norway Posts: 1,413	Dale, as others have commented, its some great shots here! I particularly liked the way you followed the falconer during the hike. But sound seem a bit off, when he was walking and talking. Maybe it´s something with the vimeo compression, but you should check the lip sync in the timeline? You also got some dark scenes in the beginning of the film. You might also speed up the editing phase when they are preparing for rappelling down the sloop. Also as Mike mention there is some wind noise, when they´re talking. How did you wire them? I often use a wireless mic, when I have to capture conversations in windy areas. Hiding it inside the jacket and let the person stand with the wind from behind often helps. Overall, your footage is very nice, good compositions, sharp focus and steady (even your handheld shoots!) Looking forward to your finished film, Dale. __________________ - Per Johan

August 19th, 2009, 10:01 AM	#42
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Here is a some added footage for the following 10 minutes, still a bit rough. It is called the eyas, and will be nested against the search. The Eyas on Vimeo I have really appreciated all the help!!! I done some correction on the search: Intalled several peoples suggestions. http://www.vimeo.com/6181320 __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen Last edited by Dale Guthormsen; August 19th, 2009 at 07:52 PM.

August 13th, 2009, 03:06 PM	#33
Steve Siegel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Posts: 840	Hi Dale, Looks like your show is really taking shape now. You really give a good idea of the desolation of the area you chose to search. I would have liked to heard a little different music at about 4 and a half minutes, when the falconer is rapelling down the cliffside. It's a little too warm and fuzzy for such a dangerous activity. Can't wait to see some of the hunting shots later in the season.

August 14th, 2009, 09:28 AM	#34
Mike Sims Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 880	Dale- This edited sequence is starting to look very like a finished piece I think. Here are some suggestions to think about. Some of the shots are kind of dark- probably the time of day. They are really obvious when you cut from a dark shot to a bird flying in a bright sky. You might try opening up the exposure a little. Try a notch filter on the wind in the scene around 2:20. I think the wind sound is important to that scene so don’t remove it all, but if you bring it down some your dialogue will be better. When the hammer strikes the metal post the spike really clips. Try bringing the sound level down briefly for each blow. Around 5:33 someone says “To your right…” They are standing much closer to the microphone than the other dialogue in that scene so you might bring the level down there also. In the voice over starting around 6:40 the level seems lower than the rest of the sequence- maybe bring it up a bit? All in all this is looking pretty polished. I can’t wait to see the next part about raising and training the chick.

August 15th, 2009, 01:28 PM	#36
Finn-Erik Faale Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Porsgrunn Norway Posts: 280	Dale, Interesting work you have for round #3. I am fascinated of the climbing sequence. As Geir Inge suggests, it would be even better with a close-up. I think this can be done in posterity. Example: hands adjusting the rope with blue background.

August 16th, 2009, 03:03 PM	#38
Mike Sims Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 880	Hi Dale, Sorry, I don’t know any Vegas. Maybe it has a high pass filter that will help. Really though, I’d take the audio over into Audition and work on it there. Try the parametric EQ. Find the center frequency of the wind and adjust the bandwidth to get only the wind and then dial the amplitude down to remove most of it. It will take some experimenting to find the right set up. What blimp did you end up getting?

August 17th, 2009, 12:18 PM	#39
Chris Swanberg Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 904	Dale I enjoyed your submission. Much of what I comment on here has already been commented on. To start I would go through and try and avoid what is a disconcerting repetitive change between bright and overly dark scenes. I'd try lightening the darker scenes and maybe dim down some of the brighter ones - in effect "normalizing" the brightness throughout. I agree with Geir about the music. I use Sonic Fire and will go try and go through and see if I might suggest something better for that section on climbing down to the nest. Overall though it is anteresting story and I am looking forward to the end result. Chris Swanberg

August 17th, 2009, 12:47 PM	#40
Catherine Russell Trustee Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lyons, Colorado Posts: 1,224	Hi Dale: Wow! I'm so used to seeing cold and snow in your films! This is a nice switch. As far as technical suggestions for your piece, the guys have done a good job with their own suggestions so I get to list what I think is great about your film. The topic is fascinating and something I know nothing about. I thought you pulled off filming the falconer when he was walking along with you very well. How did you do it? You give us a good sense of how hard it is to find the perfect age ~23 days old baby, and how difficult it is to get to it when you do find one. Pulling the young chick from the nest on the rappel was really exciting. I also think the falconer is quite good in front of a camera, which makes it easy to watch. All in all, you have a good start to a good entry. It will really be fun to watch the relationship build between falcon and falconer in the next submission. Nice job Dale! Cat

August 19th, 2009, 11:37 PM	#43
Chris Swanberg Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 904	Dale...some ideas for music in Sonic Fire: Wise traveller Red Skies Vigilant Stance Cinematic Action 2 Time Bomb Trial by Fire You can preview these with an online connection.Best of luck... Chris ps. I think there are places in your VO narration where you have wind noise when there is no speaker onscreen... you might consider redoing those as a "studio" VO... you could lay in a more natural background and I think the overall effect will be improved.

August 20th, 2009, 05:31 PM	#44
Mat Thompson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 1,397	Hi Dale Well I have to say I think out of all the long form entries you have the basis of a documentry that I could see being broadcast. It has a lot of different elements to the story and you are already doing well to pull these out in the sections posted on vimeo. A lot of your footage is sharp and well exposed with nice composition and settings. - I think with the right edit and overall story you could really have something here. However and I have to voice this opinion. I don't believe you should be taking these birds from the wild like this. I'm not going to get into my reasoning as I think it should be obvious but while I respect the love and devotion you have to your craft and these birds I don't think they should be removed from nests where the parents are perfectly capeable, given the chance of bringing up the bird themselves. Mat

August 21st, 2009, 09:18 PM	#45
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Good evening, Thank you for the comentary and suggestions, I will weigh them heavily and make adjustments. Mat, I wont discuss politics here, not the place. I will point out that the south sask river where we filmed the repelling is about a 150 mile stetch of which there are only two natural occuring prairie falcon eyries. the cliffs are there but no pot holes. so back in 1972 we started a hole digging project along this river and have continued up to today. we have over twenty nesting pairs on this stretch presently ( we dug and rejuvinated a few more holes this summer. Biologically and conservatively we can fully justify the taking of no less than 10 progeny from these known eyries that we created in prime habitat that never existed due to a lack of nesting habitat. this year in our province, bigger than texas and great britin, we had one youngster taken for falconry. Needless to say impact on population is zero. there were 5 babies in the nest site covered with ticks, we cleaned them up and left four, the burden on the parents being less and a better chance for those remaining. this has nothing to do with a political statement, just the facts here as they occur. dale __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen