White balance

John M. McCloskey · July 17th, 2007, 03:45 PM

Absolutly agree with you Graham. Also to Brendan, I would highly look into getting a good sturdy tripod, will make your footage stand the test of time over handholding and zooming. Just a suggestion

Yeo Wee Han · July 19th, 2007, 12:07 AM

Graham,

As I have mentioned in a previous post, using a ND grad is simply not feasible due to the very uneven edges of the cliff. Even if we are to use a soft-edge, the tops of the cliffs will still be filtered and be underexposed.

Cheers

WeeHan

Dale Guthormsen · July 21st, 2007, 11:34 PM

Wee han,

I think there is a lot of truth to what grazie says here.

the trick is to get it reasonable footage, not perfect because you can't.

then adjust your brightness, contrast, saturation, hue, and then rgb to make it a much better clip!!

I shoot in the sky all the time and these are the only means I know to make things right.

The trick is to shoot it without burning out the image first!!

I am all open Ears to anything else we can do to create better footage!!

Yeo Wee Han · July 21st, 2007, 11:43 PM

Dale,

I definitely agree with you. I have been a nature photographer for some years though not professionally (there just isn't a market for that in my country) and environmental conditions do play a huge part on our images and much of the time, we have no control over it.

That said, what I was disagreeing about Graham's statement was the use of a ND grad on such an image where the ridge lines will pose the major problem of uneven exposure if the filter was used.

Cheers

WeeHan

Alan Craig · July 22nd, 2007, 03:35 AM

What I am going to say will not solve any problems but could not stop thinking of the old addage never work with children and ANIMALS.
Some very interesting comments made in this discussion I also have an XM2 that I have owned for 4 years and I have similar problems filming Aeroplanes at shows that I go to. I try to zoom in as much as possible to fill most of the screen with the subject matter but not always possible when aircraft are flying very fast and away from you.

Graham Bernard · July 23rd, 2007, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeo Wee Han

That said, what I was disagreeing about Graham's statement was the use of a ND grad on such an image where the ridge lines will pose the major problem of uneven exposure if the filter was used.

Cheers

WeeHan

I kinda disagree with your disagreement of my statement! LOL!

I bet, with GOOD use of these layers I could get a finished result that would be miles better than just that plain white sky!!

Now the thing here is NOT to be bound-up with what is the best technical way; it is not about that which we all kinda know - Grads on an uneven edge don't work ( kinda know that WeeHan??); not to view this as a flawed "compromise" which any, ANY of us can could do . . . BUT!!!! to openly and genuinely see this as an artistic creative option, that COULD burst upon the viewer's brain a dramatic and richly effective sequence!!

Knowing the rules means that you can break 'em. Knowing the extend to which a technology can then go ahead and "hobble" and hamper one, ain't a reason NOT to do it.

The other option here would be for me to shoot some MATT backgrounds of a fully rich sky - underexposed rock face - devoid of birds, bring THIS into my beloved VEGAS software, and do a DIFFERENCE Fx - kinda like chroma keying (now there's another thought) without the need to cover the SKY with GREEN? This would allow me to create a truly stunning establishing shot WITH the birds now brought back in!! I'd only need a few frames to establish and maybe a few at the end-sequence.

I respect your greater understanding of photography work - I came from a 3-D, plastic-arts background. Once we got a handle on the rules - we would rip up the book and start really experimenting. I guess that ain't left me.

There ain't no problems - only exciting solutions to be discovered!!

If I was to still disagree with you, it would be about experimenting with what COULD be.

. . and anyway, who said filmmaking WAS about reality? We got rugged rock faces. We got birds of prey. We got BIG skies! We would most certainly got some stupendous screeching! What more do you want?

Interesting thread.

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back - email provider is having . . issues?

Wee Han? The next time you are in London, I'll buy you a beer - if not that, at least a coffee . . or whatever would be appropriate.

Love 'n Peace!

Grazie

Yeo Wee Han · July 23rd, 2007, 08:59 AM

Thanks Graham for the healthy discussion. What you have mentioned is very much possible and is akin to using layers in Photoshop for landscape photography with all the masking. My bad here as I was thinking of it as not a stationary shot but one where camera movement was involved.

I agree that we should experiment but Im still a try-to-get-it-right-out-of-the-camera kinda of guy and I would personally have chosen to shoot in better light. BUT that is not always possible and your suggestion on post-pro work is an extremely viable option.

Hold onto that beer, I will definitely head for London one of these days...though not in the near future. :)

Cheers

WeeHan

Graham Bernard · July 23rd, 2007, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeo Wee Han

My bad here as I was thinking of it as not a stationary shot but one where camera movement was involved.

Well .. . I'd have to think it through, but the aesthetics might even work here too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeo Wee Han

I agree that we should experiment but Im still a try-to-get-it-right-out-of-the-camera kinda of guy . . .

I don't see these 2 paradigms - experimentation<>"camera-correctness" - as being mutually exclusive?WeeHan? I really don't?

I often think that some of my pre-post work looks really dull. It's only when I get busy on the timeline that I can lift or contrast-up my stuff and start digging out the narrative. Getting it "right", for me, means getting the BEST digital information. Yeah?

I CAN keep your beer . . . but not for TOO long!! I gets thirsty . .

Grazie

Brendan Marnell · July 26th, 2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John M. McCloskey

Absolutly agree with you Graham. Also to Brendan, I would highly look into getting a good sturdy tripod, will make your footage stand the test of time over handholding and zooming. Just a suggestion

I will be using a sturdy Benbo + Manfrotto for big bird landings and take-offs; here are samples of what I spoiled last year without a tripod ...

John M. McCloskey · July 30th, 2007, 07:21 AM

might even want to look into a varizoom VZ Rock LANC. The more you can keep your hands off the camera at full zoom the less shaky your video will be.

Dale Guthormsen · August 4th, 2007, 11:20 PM

Good evening,

I agree with John on the lanc remote!!!!

My lanc socket has been broken for a month and I am here to tell you I have got so used to always using it that I forgot how much harder it is without it!! of all my peripheral kit I use the lanc the most!!!

Brendan Marnell · August 6th, 2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John M. McCloskey

The more you can keep your hands off the camera at full zoom the less shaky your video will be.

This must be the clearest quote I've read on DVInfo. Its implications are taking a week to sink in.

Sure I'm thick between the ears ... it's 2.5 years now since I got my XM2(GL2) and only today have I tried to figure out how the wireless controller works. I wonder how its controls might compare with those of a Varizoom?

Yeo Wee Han · August 6th, 2007, 09:00 AM

Brendan,

John's advice is spot on there. I do high mag stuff and camera movement is a beast even though everything is solidly mounted on a Vinten 6. I now have a Libec lanc controller attached to facilitate faster recording and a Redrock Micro follow focus unit to avoid touching the lens to follow focus. These 2 items are a godsend and really really works.

Cheers

WeeHan

Dale Guthormsen · August 9th, 2007, 10:43 PM

Yeo,

What camera are you using the micro follow focus on?!!!

I use a gl and xl and i was under the impression these do not work acceptably on the canons!!

Is that not true?

Grazie,

Geeze, It never occurred to me to find that old remote, what a capital idea.

Yeo Wee Han · August 10th, 2007, 07:33 AM

Dale,

Not true at all! All you need is a road system and lens gears to allow the FF unit to be used successfully with the cameras!

Im using the H1 and using the Redrock Micro Follow Focus. It's one of the better prices units and frankly, its really really smooth. Im using it with the EF adaptor and the 180 Canon macro. To have the follow focus unit work with this setup, you will need to "gear" the lens which is basically having a geared ring (Redrock sells this) and a of course rods to mount the focus unit. Im using the Vocas MB-250 mattebox which came with a rod system. Too expensive and you can get something way cheaper if you shop around.

After gearing the lens, it just a 10sec business to get the unit in place. Then you will have super smooth focusing esp when doing high mag rate or telephoto work.

I rec the follow focus whips as well. Got a set of them and use the 3 inch and the 12 inch the most.

I will post a pic once I have the chance to shoot my setup.

Cheers

WeeHan

July 21st, 2007, 11:34 PM	#33
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Wee han, I think there is a lot of truth to what grazie says here. the trick is to get it reasonable footage, not perfect because you can't. then adjust your brightness, contrast, saturation, hue, and then rgb to make it a much better clip!! I shoot in the sky all the time and these are the only means I know to make things right. The trick is to shoot it without burning out the image first!! I am all open Ears to anything else we can do to create better footage!! __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen

August 4th, 2007, 11:20 PM	#41
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Good evening, I agree with John on the lanc remote!!!! My lanc socket has been broken for a month and I am here to tell you I have got so used to always using it that I forgot how much harder it is without it!! of all my peripheral kit I use the lanc the most!!! __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen

August 9th, 2007, 10:43 PM	#44
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Yeo, What camera are you using the micro follow focus on?!!! I use a gl and xl and i was under the impression these do not work acceptably on the canons!! Is that not true? Grazie, Geeze, It never occurred to me to find that old remote, what a capital idea. __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen

July 17th, 2007, 03:45 PM	#31
John M. McCloskey Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Point, MS Posts: 313	Absolutly agree with you Graham. Also to Brendan, I would highly look into getting a good sturdy tripod, will make your footage stand the test of time over handholding and zooming. Just a suggestion

July 19th, 2007, 12:07 AM	#32
Yeo Wee Han Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 155	Graham, As I have mentioned in a previous post, using a ND grad is simply not feasible due to the very uneven edges of the cliff. Even if we are to use a soft-edge, the tops of the cliffs will still be filtered and be underexposed. Cheers WeeHan

July 21st, 2007, 11:43 PM	#34
Yeo Wee Han Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 155	Dale, I definitely agree with you. I have been a nature photographer for some years though not professionally (there just isn't a market for that in my country) and environmental conditions do play a huge part on our images and much of the time, we have no control over it. That said, what I was disagreeing about Graham's statement was the use of a ND grad on such an image where the ridge lines will pose the major problem of uneven exposure if the filter was used. Cheers WeeHan

July 22nd, 2007, 03:35 AM	#35
Alan Craig Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Warrington England Posts: 143	What I am going to say will not solve any problems but could not stop thinking of the old addage never work with children and ANIMALS. Some very interesting comments made in this discussion I also have an XM2 that I have owned for 4 years and I have similar problems filming Aeroplanes at shows that I go to. I try to zoom in as much as possible to fill most of the screen with the subject matter but not always possible when aircraft are flying very fast and away from you.

July 23rd, 2007, 08:59 AM	#37
Yeo Wee Han Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 155	Thanks Graham for the healthy discussion. What you have mentioned is very much possible and is akin to using layers in Photoshop for landscape photography with all the masking. My bad here as I was thinking of it as not a stationary shot but one where camera movement was involved. I agree that we should experiment but Im still a try-to-get-it-right-out-of-the-camera kinda of guy and I would personally have chosen to shoot in better light. BUT that is not always possible and your suggestion on post-pro work is an extremely viable option. Hold onto that beer, I will definitely head for London one of these days...though not in the near future. :) Cheers WeeHan

July 30th, 2007, 07:21 AM	#40
John M. McCloskey Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Point, MS Posts: 313	might even want to look into a varizoom VZ Rock LANC. The more you can keep your hands off the camera at full zoom the less shaky your video will be.

August 6th, 2007, 09:00 AM	#43
Yeo Wee Han Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 155	Brendan, John's advice is spot on there. I do high mag stuff and camera movement is a beast even though everything is solidly mounted on a Vinten 6. I now have a Libec lanc controller attached to facilitate faster recording and a Redrock Micro follow focus unit to avoid touching the lens to follow focus. These 2 items are a godsend and really really works. Cheers WeeHan

August 10th, 2007, 07:33 AM	#45
Yeo Wee Han Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 155	Dale, Not true at all! All you need is a road system and lens gears to allow the FF unit to be used successfully with the cameras! Im using the H1 and using the Redrock Micro Follow Focus. It's one of the better prices units and frankly, its really really smooth. Im using it with the EF adaptor and the 180 Canon macro. To have the follow focus unit work with this setup, you will need to "gear" the lens which is basically having a geared ring (Redrock sells this) and a of course rods to mount the focus unit. Im using the Vocas MB-250 mattebox which came with a rod system. Too expensive and you can get something way cheaper if you shop around. After gearing the lens, it just a 10sec business to get the unit in place. Then you will have super smooth focusing esp when doing high mag rate or telephoto work. I rec the follow focus whips as well. Got a set of them and use the 3 inch and the 12 inch the most. I will post a pic once I have the chance to shoot my setup. Cheers WeeHan