shooting underwater at DVinfo.net

Phillip Palacios · March 8th, 2007, 03:01 PM

hello all
i am in kailua-kona on the big island of hawai'i right now, and i just finished my first attempt at shooting underwater.
the footage is not that great (understandably) it is really shaky and slightly out of focus. this is all surface - 5ft depth, mainly reef and fish.

i have an hvx200 my settings were: 60fps on 24p 720 1/120 shutter ois off iris auto. manual focus set to 5ft.

any suggestions? should i have ois on?
thanks in advance, phil

Phillip Palacios · March 21st, 2007, 01:36 AM

anybody have suggestions?

Joe Holley · March 22nd, 2007, 06:47 PM

Hello Phillip,
I went to your site and checked out your demo reel but couldn't find any underwater footage. Can you post a link directly to it?

Thanks

Phillip Palacios · March 22nd, 2007, 11:39 PM

Joe,
Thanks for checking out my site, although I would not put the underwater footage in my demo reel, it really is not good.
I am more looking for advise on correct settings rather than a critique at this point, I know that practice is needed in the water to get used to how the camera handles underwater and I would fear that people would get hung up on the techinque (which must improve) rather than helping get the cam set up correctly, the first step.
If you have any suggestions, please let me know.
Phil

Yeo Wee Han · March 23rd, 2007, 12:29 AM

Philip,

Why was your OIS not on? I do not on mine only when I have the cam mounted on a tripod and at times, I do not remember to off it and it still works fine. There is no stuttering at all. This is coming from a DVX100 though.

Do you have any lighting along with the camera?

Cheers

WeeHan

Phillip Palacios · March 23rd, 2007, 12:01 PM

yeo,
the OIS was off, as I was using the overcrank feature and thought that it would slow the shakes down enough.

I will try with it "on" and see what happens.

As for lights, no I am not using any, this is all less than 10ft deep and the sun is quite bright and the water very clear in the tropics, I actually have to use the 1/8 ND filter.

John Miller · March 23rd, 2007, 06:16 PM

Setting your focus to a fixed 5ft will be a problem.

Assuming your camera housing has a flat lens port, you have to correct the focus by a factor of 1.333 to allow for the different refractive index of water vs. air.

If your camera housing has a domed lens port, then you typical set the focus on infinity.

Basically, you need to be able to control the focus somehow.....

Kevin J. Tierney · March 25th, 2007, 10:41 AM

Phillip, without getting into much technical detail here is a little advice....

Relax!, it becomes a lot like ballet to get nice smooth shoots. It's real easy to get overwhelmed by all that's happing under there. What housing do you use? I shoot with a Gates housing for my Sony Z1, It's big, bulky and heavy out of the water, but all that's wrong with that on the surface is a big help in smooth shots underwater. I have a dome port and use a wide angle adapter and stay full wide. I focus on the writing on one of my fins and this works fine most of the time unless I need to get real close.

Pat Reddy · March 25th, 2007, 06:02 PM

If you have some otherwise great footage that's too shaky for your taste, you might try using Gunner Thalin's Deshaker plugin in Virtualdub. Both are freeware, you can find them with a Google search.

I had a lot of shaky footage using an HC1 and EWA marine bag (maybe 2.5 pounds total?) in Kona last May. I post-processed it in Virtualdub with the Deshaker plugin, and now it looks like I had a 40 pound housing and calm waters instead of erratic surge.

Pat

John Miller · March 26th, 2007, 07:13 AM

Phil,

You don't indicate whether your are snorkelling or SCUBA diving.

If you are snorkelling and shooting from the surface, you will always be at the mercy of the surface conditions of the water. To minimize shake, always set the camcorder to its widest angle and get as close to the subject as possible. This is also important for preserving the color. Even though you are in shallow water, the loss of warmer colors still occurs horizontally.

If you are SCUBA diving, the above still apply (widest angle, close to subject) but, much more importantly, is to perfect your buoyancy skills. If your bouyancy isn't just right, you will find yourself fighting to keep the shot in frame by kicking, or taking one hand off the housing to adjust your BCD etc. Until your buoyancy skills become second nature, you will struggle to get good shots.

The other reason to perfect your buoyancy is so that you can get close to the subject without holding onto (and thereby damaging) the reef.

Have fun!

John.

(PADI Instructor)

Phillip Palacios · March 26th, 2007, 01:05 PM

I am snorkeling, and free diving to ten ft. or less and yes I have definatly noticed the swell conditions greatly effect the camera.

I am using a Ewa housing. I had originally budgeted in a gates housing, but after the project took a turn for dryer locations (i.e. more on shore and very little underwater) I could not justify the expense. All in all there are only two locations that need underwater footage.

After using the "bag" I know that if an underwater shoot comes along again I will either a. buy a better housing or b. hire an underwater specialist with their own equipment.

Dave Allen · November 19th, 2008, 02:13 AM

We never turn on image stabilization, it ruins the clips and makes them blurry.

Markus Nord · November 19th, 2008, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Allen

We never turn on image stabilization, it ruins the clips and makes them blurry.

It’s depends on what type of camera you are using… on my XL2 the stabilization is in the optic, and it works in a different way than on a digital stabilization you got in some cameras. So for me if works fine with it on, but I also use a tripod for macro anyway.

Markus

Dave Allen · November 24th, 2008, 07:17 PM

I have been working on some underwater tripod solutions, none are perfect....I ran into a Dasycaris zanzibaricus shrimp on a whip coral 1.5 meters off the bottom, other times it may be a bobtail squid on the sand.

Markus Nord · November 25th, 2008, 01:42 AM

Hi Dave

I found that my housing (Gates XL2) got 4 threaded holes on the handle (the old type with the handles under the housing). These 4 holes got the same threads as on any camera, so you can build you own tripod. I made a similar to gorilla pod and it works well (try to post a pic asap). Most of my macro is close to the bottom so for me it’s not needed to be much taller than 30 cm (1 ft).

March 8th, 2007, 03:01 PM	#1
Phillip Palacios Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 233	shooting underwater hello all i am in kailua-kona on the big island of hawai'i right now, and i just finished my first attempt at shooting underwater. the footage is not that great (understandably) it is really shaky and slightly out of focus. this is all surface - 5ft depth, mainly reef and fish. i have an hvx200 my settings were: 60fps on 24p 720 1/120 shutter ois off iris auto. manual focus set to 5ft. any suggestions? should i have ois on? thanks in advance, phil __________________ always learning www.phillippalacios.com

March 21st, 2007, 01:36 AM	#2
Phillip Palacios Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 233	anybody have suggestions? __________________ always learning www.phillippalacios.com

March 22nd, 2007, 11:39 PM	#4
Phillip Palacios Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 233	Joe, Thanks for checking out my site, although I would not put the underwater footage in my demo reel, it really is not good. I am more looking for advise on correct settings rather than a critique at this point, I know that practice is needed in the water to get used to how the camera handles underwater and I would fear that people would get hung up on the techinque (which must improve) rather than helping get the cam set up correctly, the first step. If you have any suggestions, please let me know. Phil __________________ always learning www.phillippalacios.com

March 23rd, 2007, 12:01 PM	#6
Phillip Palacios Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 233	yeo, the OIS was off, as I was using the overcrank feature and thought that it would slow the shakes down enough. I will try with it "on" and see what happens. As for lights, no I am not using any, this is all less than 10ft deep and the sun is quite bright and the water very clear in the tropics, I actually have to use the 1/8 ND filter. __________________ always learning www.phillippalacios.com

March 25th, 2007, 10:41 AM	#8
Kevin J. Tierney Tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Broward County Posts: 2	Shooting UW... Phillip, without getting into much technical detail here is a little advice.... Relax!, it becomes a lot like ballet to get nice smooth shoots. It's real easy to get overwhelmed by all that's happing under there. What housing do you use? I shoot with a Gates housing for my Sony Z1, It's big, bulky and heavy out of the water, but all that's wrong with that on the surface is a big help in smooth shots underwater. I have a dome port and use a wide angle adapter and stay full wide. I focus on the writing on one of my fins and this works fine most of the time unless I need to get real close.

March 22nd, 2007, 06:47 PM	#3
Joe Holley Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 18	Hello Phillip, I went to your site and checked out your demo reel but couldn't find any underwater footage. Can you post a link directly to it? Thanks

March 23rd, 2007, 12:29 AM	#5
Yeo Wee Han Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 155	Philip, Why was your OIS not on? I do not on mine only when I have the cam mounted on a tripod and at times, I do not remember to off it and it still works fine. There is no stuttering at all. This is coming from a DVX100 though. Do you have any lighting along with the camera? Cheers WeeHan

March 23rd, 2007, 06:16 PM	#7
John Miller Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hillsborough, NC, USA Posts: 968	Setting your focus to a fixed 5ft will be a problem. Assuming your camera housing has a flat lens port, you have to correct the focus by a factor of 1.333 to allow for the different refractive index of water vs. air. If your camera housing has a domed lens port, then you typical set the focus on infinity. Basically, you need to be able to control the focus somehow.....

March 25th, 2007, 06:02 PM	#9
Pat Reddy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 288	Deshaking in post If you have some otherwise great footage that's too shaky for your taste, you might try using Gunner Thalin's Deshaker plugin in Virtualdub. Both are freeware, you can find them with a Google search. I had a lot of shaky footage using an HC1 and EWA marine bag (maybe 2.5 pounds total?) in Kona last May. I post-processed it in Virtualdub with the Deshaker plugin, and now it looks like I had a 40 pound housing and calm waters instead of erratic surge. Pat

March 26th, 2007, 07:13 AM	#10
John Miller Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hillsborough, NC, USA Posts: 968	Phil, You don't indicate whether your are snorkelling or SCUBA diving. If you are snorkelling and shooting from the surface, you will always be at the mercy of the surface conditions of the water. To minimize shake, always set the camcorder to its widest angle and get as close to the subject as possible. This is also important for preserving the color. Even though you are in shallow water, the loss of warmer colors still occurs horizontally. If you are SCUBA diving, the above still apply (widest angle, close to subject) but, much more importantly, is to perfect your buoyancy skills. If your bouyancy isn't just right, you will find yourself fighting to keep the shot in frame by kicking, or taking one hand off the housing to adjust your BCD etc. Until your buoyancy skills become second nature, you will struggle to get good shots. The other reason to perfect your buoyancy is so that you can get close to the subject without holding onto (and thereby damaging) the reef. Have fun! John. (PADI Instructor)

March 26th, 2007, 01:05 PM	#11
Phillip Palacios Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 233	I am snorkeling, and free diving to ten ft. or less and yes I have definatly noticed the swell conditions greatly effect the camera. I am using a Ewa housing. I had originally budgeted in a gates housing, but after the project took a turn for dryer locations (i.e. more on shore and very little underwater) I could not justify the expense. All in all there are only two locations that need underwater footage. After using the "bag" I know that if an underwater shoot comes along again I will either a. buy a better housing or b. hire an underwater specialist with their own equipment. __________________ always learning www.phillippalacios.com

November 19th, 2008, 02:13 AM	#12
Dave Allen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Boston Posts: 497	We never turn on image stabilization, it ruins the clips and makes them blurry. __________________ Dave -

November 24th, 2008, 07:17 PM	#14
Dave Allen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Boston Posts: 497	I have been working on some underwater tripod solutions, none are perfect....I ran into a Dasycaris zanzibaricus shrimp on a whip coral 1.5 meters off the bottom, other times it may be a bobtail squid on the sand. __________________ Dave -

November 25th, 2008, 01:42 AM	#15
Markus Nord Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vastervik ,Sweden Posts: 639	Hi Dave I found that my housing (Gates XL2) got 4 threaded holes on the handle (the old type with the handles under the housing). These 4 holes got the same threads as on any camera, so you can build you own tripod. I made a similar to gorilla pod and it works well (try to post a pic asap). Most of my macro is close to the bottom so for me it’s not needed to be much taller than 30 cm (1 ft). __________________ www.nordproduktion.se https://vimeo.com/nordproduktion