Infrared camera with B4 mount at DVinfo.net

Bo Skelmose · March 18th, 2010, 01:28 PM

Hi
Panasonic once made a box camera 4:3 with rotary filter that made it posible to record in infrared ligt. Today it is almost impossible to find any in 16:9 and mabe even in HD.
All I have found is BE - HD20 Kamtek :: BE - HD20 and it only have 1/3 " cmos chip. What I have seen from these cameras have not been satisfactory.

Sanyo makes a camera for surveillance with lens and Sony make camcorders that can record in infrared lightning - but it seems impossible to find any infrared HD B4 mount cameras. Have you seen a model with these specifications ?

Bob Hart · March 19th, 2010, 10:38 AM

Probably the only turnkey product for near IR imaging to video is the USA Electrophysics Corp Astroscope system which is modular and uses a tube based intensifier. This is the source of the signature green images you see coming from the world's trouble spots.

You may have difficulty importing one into Europe as I understand that GEN 3 image intensifier tube equipment export from the US is restricted.

Their product interposes between the video camera and its lens.

Pyser in the UK also make an eyepiece near IR tube based intensfier product which can be adapted to work with consumer video camera but would require a custom adaptor to work with B4 lenses and cameras. Their products use Photonis GEN 2+ tubes manufactured in Europe. These are alleged to be slightly less efficient than GEN3 tubes but to have superior resolution with up to 72 line pairs per mm claimed.

To get around the US export restrictions, it might be possible to have an empty Astroscope B4 to B4 body fitted with a Photonis tube.

A helpful site is in Australia. Search for Military Law and Enforcement Technologies. There are newer systems published on the site.

Kin Lau · March 19th, 2010, 01:30 PM

Have you considered a DSLR with the ir-cut filter removed? They've been doing for still photography for a long time. The conversion runs about $500- + cost of the camera.

Bo Skelmose · September 14th, 2010, 01:30 AM

Hi
Yes I have considered a dslr. I just would like to operate the camera and lens on a remotehead. Late last night i found out that my older panasonic AW-E650 1/2" cameraes have a unmountable IR filter - unfortunately the backfocus runs so far out that I cannot adjust it properly so it won't do either. It would have been a 1/2" 4:3 camera with a 1/2" mount but that would be ok for a start.

Kin Lau · September 14th, 2010, 04:48 PM

Once you have the IR filter removed, you might still have to replace it with a piece of glass with the exact same thickness to complete the optical formula.

You could also consider sending in the camera of your choice for a IR conversion, or even ordering the parts to do it yourself. Lifepixel.com sells the appropriate filters precut for DSLR's, but you can probably get them to cut it down to the size you need.

Maxmax.com also does conversions, but they only list the Sony consumer cams.

James Ewen · September 15th, 2010, 01:10 AM

Bo,

Have a look at Bradley Engineering, they make an 720P HD IR switchable camera that takes C-Mount lenses and is excellent quality.

Cameras

IR HD B4 mount cameras do exist but not in the consumer arena.

James

Bo Skelmose · September 15th, 2010, 08:00 AM

Hi
I did as Kin Lau sugested and made a new piece of glass for the IR filter. No problem as the quality of the picture from the AW-E650 is not too good anyway.
http://www.skelmosetv.dk/filer/IR-Filter_0171.jpg

Now I just have the problem with my digital canon 2/3 lens on the 1/2 camera - but somewhere I have the 2/3 to 1/2 converter.

Still 4:3 and bad SD quality.

My Sony HDR-SR12 still makes great IR recordings but I am still looking for something to be controlled by my Panasonic system
I have looked at Ikegami, Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, JVC and others but none have a box, B4 mount, HD infrared camera - All is with IR filters - maybe I have to buy a new remotehead to control another camera like the one from bradley.

Gilles Debord · September 16th, 2010, 02:17 AM

Hi

Ask your question here: PHOTONIS.COM - France, they do highly accurate Micro channel intensifiers.

Many years ago they have sold MCI with military default at low prices, but today i don't know. After you have to mount it (big challenge).

The only problem with this kind of products are the import law and the prices.

Bo Skelmose · March 23rd, 2011, 10:35 AM

Hi
Problem seems to be solved.
The new HD Surveillance cameras have a HDCCTV output. This signal is build from the HD-SDI standard and YES you can record the HD-SDI on a HD recorder without any problem 1080i or 720-50P !
I have put an C-mount to B4 converter on the Everfocus EQH 5200 camera and it works, although it has a big zoom factor. It does not give any problem as I need to use a tele, to film beavers anyway.
Only problem I have now is that I need a 12V cable to supply my B4 Canon Digital lens so I can remote control it.

Exicited to try it tonight, in the garden.

Mike Sims · March 24th, 2011, 08:39 AM

Hi Bo.
I just watched your Halsbåndmus video from last night on Vimeo. I think the EQH 5200 is very interesting, thank you for pointing it out! What lens did you use and what aperture? Which camera did you use for your Halsbåndmus video from two months ago? Is the lighting the same for both videos? The EQH 5200 shows much less eye shine and looks really good. What are you recording the SDI signal to? Please post more shots when you can- Thanks!

Bo Skelmose · March 24th, 2011, 11:05 AM

My earlier recordings of the mouse was with a Sony HDR-SR12.
On the Everfocus camera I used a C-mount Fujinon 2.8 lens http://www.fujinon.com/ProductDocs/TF2.8DA8.pdf
and yes it is the same Infra Led lights I used for both recordings. I recorded on a Panasonic AG-HPG20E in 1080i and AVC-Intra 50. 1080i seems to make the best result although it is not the widest choice - why I cannot tell as I would have expected the 720 setting to use just a part of the Cmos.
Exiting what other cameras that will show up in the future.

Mike Sims · March 24th, 2011, 11:16 AM

Thanks, Bo! I look forward to seeing your work with the beavers.

Wolfgang Neun · August 15th, 2011, 06:11 AM

Hi Bo,
I am a little late to this thread but very interested in the Everfocus camera that you've bought and have a few questions: Have you ever had the time and opportunity to test it under daylight conditions? How would you rate the image quality? And would you dare to intercut it with footage from your EX3?
Thank you for your time and patience!
Wolfgang.

Bo Skelmose · August 15th, 2011, 09:10 AM

Hi
I would say that it cannot be used for anything broadcast but infrared. Samsung makes a VCC-HD4000 that makes good daylight video and much better Infrred recordings but it have a unchangeble lens and HDMI out only. The Lens can be focussed and zoomed through a cat5 cable but it is slow to use. If you use zoom and focus bottoms on the camera it will drop frames.... Samsung have made some newer models - how they work I cannot tell. I am still looking for a very good HD infrared camera with B4 mount.

Wolfgang Neun · August 15th, 2011, 09:57 AM

Thank you, Bo!
That's just what I wanted to know. At the moment there is no real need for me to shoot infrared. So I will only invest in such a camera (as inexpensive as it may be) if I can intercut one or another daytime shot with my XL-H1 footage.
Wolfgang.

March 18th, 2010, 01:28 PM	#1
Bo Skelmose Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 495	Infrared camera with B4 mount Hi Panasonic once made a box camera 4:3 with rotary filter that made it posible to record in infrared ligt. Today it is almost impossible to find any in 16:9 and mabe even in HD. All I have found is BE - HD20 Kamtek :: BE - HD20 and it only have 1/3 " cmos chip. What I have seen from these cameras have not been satisfactory. Sanyo makes a camera for surveillance with lens and Sony make camcorders that can record in infrared lightning - but it seems impossible to find any infrared HD B4 mount cameras. Have you seen a model with these specifications ?

March 19th, 2010, 10:38 AM	#2
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	Probably the only turnkey product for near IR imaging to video is the USA Electrophysics Corp Astroscope system which is modular and uses a tube based intensifier. This is the source of the signature green images you see coming from the world's trouble spots. You may have difficulty importing one into Europe as I understand that GEN 3 image intensifier tube equipment export from the US is restricted. Their product interposes between the video camera and its lens. Pyser in the UK also make an eyepiece near IR tube based intensfier product which can be adapted to work with consumer video camera but would require a custom adaptor to work with B4 lenses and cameras. Their products use Photonis GEN 2+ tubes manufactured in Europe. These are alleged to be slightly less efficient than GEN3 tubes but to have superior resolution with up to 72 line pairs per mm claimed. To get around the US export restrictions, it might be possible to have an empty Astroscope B4 to B4 body fitted with a Photonis tube. A helpful site is in Australia. Search for Military Law and Enforcement Technologies. There are newer systems published on the site. Last edited by Bob Hart; March 19th, 2010 at 10:45 AM. Reason: error

September 15th, 2010, 01:10 AM	#6
James Ewen Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 91	Bradley Engineering Bo, Have a look at Bradley Engineering, they make an 720P HD IR switchable camera that takes C-Mount lenses and is excellent quality. Cameras IR HD B4 mount cameras do exist but not in the consumer arena. James __________________ Natural History Cameraman Earthmedia Film, Oslo, Norway

September 16th, 2010, 02:17 AM	#8
Gilles Debord Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: France Posts: 152	Hi Ask your question here: PHOTONIS.COM - France, they do highly accurate Micro channel intensifiers. Many years ago they have sold MCI with military default at low prices, but today i don't know. After you have to mount it (big challenge). The only problem with this kind of products are the import law and the prices. __________________ Gilles Debord http://www.wwvideo.tv

March 23rd, 2011, 10:35 AM	#9
Bo Skelmose Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 495	Re: Infrared camera with B4 mount Hi Problem seems to be solved. The new HD Surveillance cameras have a HDCCTV output. This signal is build from the HD-SDI standard and YES you can record the HD-SDI on a HD recorder without any problem 1080i or 720-50P ! I have put an C-mount to B4 converter on the Everfocus EQH 5200 camera and it works, although it has a big zoom factor. It does not give any problem as I need to use a tele, to film beavers anyway. Only problem I have now is that I need a 12V cable to supply my B4 Canon Digital lens so I can remote control it. Exicited to try it tonight, in the garden. Last edited by Bo Skelmose; March 23rd, 2011 at 11:42 AM.

March 19th, 2010, 01:30 PM	#3
Kin Lau Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 385	Have you considered a DSLR with the ir-cut filter removed? They've been doing for still photography for a long time. The conversion runs about $500- + cost of the camera.

September 14th, 2010, 01:30 AM	#4
Bo Skelmose Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 495	Hi Yes I have considered a dslr. I just would like to operate the camera and lens on a remotehead. Late last night i found out that my older panasonic AW-E650 1/2" cameraes have a unmountable IR filter - unfortunately the backfocus runs so far out that I cannot adjust it properly so it won't do either. It would have been a 1/2" 4:3 camera with a 1/2" mount but that would be ok for a start.

September 14th, 2010, 04:48 PM	#5
Kin Lau Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 385	Once you have the IR filter removed, you might still have to replace it with a piece of glass with the exact same thickness to complete the optical formula. You could also consider sending in the camera of your choice for a IR conversion, or even ordering the parts to do it yourself. Lifepixel.com sells the appropriate filters precut for DSLR's, but you can probably get them to cut it down to the size you need. Maxmax.com also does conversions, but they only list the Sony consumer cams.

September 15th, 2010, 08:00 AM	#7
Bo Skelmose Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 495	Hi I did as Kin Lau sugested and made a new piece of glass for the IR filter. No problem as the quality of the picture from the AW-E650 is not too good anyway. http://www.skelmosetv.dk/filer/IR-Filter_0171.jpg Now I just have the problem with my digital canon 2/3 lens on the 1/2 camera - but somewhere I have the 2/3 to 1/2 converter. Still 4:3 and bad SD quality. My Sony HDR-SR12 still makes great IR recordings but I am still looking for something to be controlled by my Panasonic system I have looked at Ikegami, Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, JVC and others but none have a box, B4 mount, HD infrared camera - All is with IR filters - maybe I have to buy a new remotehead to control another camera like the one from bradley.

March 24th, 2011, 08:39 AM	#10
Mike Sims Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 880	Re: Infrared camera with B4 mount Hi Bo. I just watched your Halsbåndmus video from last night on Vimeo. I think the EQH 5200 is very interesting, thank you for pointing it out! What lens did you use and what aperture? Which camera did you use for your Halsbåndmus video from two months ago? Is the lighting the same for both videos? The EQH 5200 shows much less eye shine and looks really good. What are you recording the SDI signal to? Please post more shots when you can- Thanks!

March 24th, 2011, 11:05 AM	#11
Bo Skelmose Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 495	Re: Infrared camera with B4 mount My earlier recordings of the mouse was with a Sony HDR-SR12. On the Everfocus camera I used a C-mount Fujinon 2.8 lens http://www.fujinon.com/ProductDocs/TF2.8DA8.pdf and yes it is the same Infra Led lights I used for both recordings. I recorded on a Panasonic AG-HPG20E in 1080i and AVC-Intra 50. 1080i seems to make the best result although it is not the widest choice - why I cannot tell as I would have expected the 720 setting to use just a part of the Cmos. Exiting what other cameras that will show up in the future.

March 24th, 2011, 11:16 AM	#12
Mike Sims Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 880	Re: Infrared camera with B4 mount Thanks, Bo! I look forward to seeing your work with the beavers.

August 15th, 2011, 06:11 AM	#13
Wolfgang Neun New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 23	Re: Infrared camera with B4 mount Hi Bo, I am a little late to this thread but very interested in the Everfocus camera that you've bought and have a few questions: Have you ever had the time and opportunity to test it under daylight conditions? How would you rate the image quality? And would you dare to intercut it with footage from your EX3? Thank you for your time and patience! Wolfgang.

August 15th, 2011, 09:10 AM	#14
Bo Skelmose Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 495	Re: Infrared camera with B4 mount Hi I would say that it cannot be used for anything broadcast but infrared. Samsung makes a VCC-HD4000 that makes good daylight video and much better Infrred recordings but it have a unchangeble lens and HDMI out only. The Lens can be focussed and zoomed through a cat5 cable but it is slow to use. If you use zoom and focus bottoms on the camera it will drop frames.... Samsung have made some newer models - how they work I cannot tell. I am still looking for a very good HD infrared camera with B4 mount.

August 15th, 2011, 09:57 AM	#15
Wolfgang Neun New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 23	Re: Infrared camera with B4 mount Thank you, Bo! That's just what I wanted to know. At the moment there is no real need for me to shoot infrared. So I will only invest in such a camera (as inexpensive as it may be) if I can intercut one or another daytime shot with my XL-H1 footage. Wolfgang.