Dipper 2 (video) at DVinfo.net

Juha Harjula · November 17th, 2009, 09:26 AM

Hi.

Short clip from last winter. All kind of comments are welcome.

http://www.riitti.net/videot/koskikara2.mp4

Steve Siegel · November 17th, 2009, 02:19 PM

Juha,
I tried to view your clip, but only received a white screen, and finally an error message.
Your computer or mine?

Juha Harjula · November 17th, 2009, 02:23 PM

Try to save file to disk before viewing. It has worked for others.

Steve Siegel · November 17th, 2009, 04:15 PM

Juha,
Yes, it worked. This is very, very good. I have been trying to shoot our American Dipper for years, and have much trouble finding them. I love your sharply focused footage, and the fact that you get down to water level to shoot. That makes a huge difference.
You asked for comments. Here are a few. I would start the music from the beginning.
A few more set up shots of the stream would be nice, then a distant shot of the bird, or perhaps the clip where it is on a branch, and finally the close-ups. Don't fade to black. It is distracting. Most of your audience probably doesn't know that this bird feeds underwater, some narrative would help, or perhaps a few diving shots, finishing off with him eating that juicy bug. I really like what you do with the water, too. Nice contrast, speed and it really looks cold. Please show us some more.

Kin Lau · November 17th, 2009, 06:01 PM

That was very nice indeed, I enjoyed it very much. I've seen the American Dipper in action, and it's a great little bird to shot (I was only shooting stills at the time).

If possible, try a few shots from higher angle with the Dipper in calm water so that we can see it swimming underwater.

@Steve, I've had them in the Rockies near Banff, and on Vancouver Island west of Victoria. Let me know if you want more info.

Caleb Royer · November 18th, 2009, 07:26 PM

Extraordinary!

Gilles Debord · November 19th, 2009, 04:27 PM

Hi

Fantastic, all is good, picture and music, i like all, the black and white nuances on the ice, the dipper i'm looking for it since two years may be (sure) for me this winter ? I have a place.

The clip is really good, what is the green animal at the end?

Gilles

Bob Thompson · November 21st, 2009, 05:50 AM

Congratulations, beautiful shots.

My only comment would be the sound mix but I am still in awe at the great shots

Bob

Brendan Marnell · November 22nd, 2009, 05:22 PM

That is full of loveliness, Juha.

Even the ice you filmed came alive, like I've never seen before. Your dipper proved beyond doubt that the turnstone is not the only bird that does what it says on the label.

Of course you could have presented the intro and exit like a pro. I never do, and if I had footage like that I would be too eager to share it.

Thanks a lot.

Mike Beckett · November 23rd, 2009, 03:38 AM

That's a lovely little film, Juha, and very very cold! The dippers are one of my favourites - any bird that dances is winner for me. I seem to recall they do it to improve their view of their prey under the water.

What sort of animal was that at the end, at 3:37 in the video? I can't find it in any of my wildlife books.

Kenneth Burgener · November 25th, 2009, 09:59 PM

No dippers in Florida, no snow in Florida, no problem. Nice to see your film. I guess I should not complain about the heat and the bugs.

Ken

Steve Siegel · November 26th, 2009, 01:28 PM

Mike,
It is thought by some that birds such as pigeons that pump their heads back and forth when they walk do it to gain depth perception. They do not have binocular vision and shifting one eye rapidly between two different locations gives the different angles of view that the brain can synthesize into a sort of binocular vision.
Birds like dippers, waterthrushes and certain sandpipers bob their rears, while their heads are relatively stable. Any thoughts on what advantage that movement may have?

Annie Haycock · November 27th, 2009, 10:07 AM

It's generally thought that tail bobbing as done by small birds alongside water helps to camouflage them - with the movement mimicking that of the water making them more difficult for predators to see. It doesn't really work against a white background, though.

This is a nice set of clips, but like Steve says, they could probably be ordered better.

I'd guess that for the clip at 2:50 you may have left the camera unattended and didn't know what you'd got until later - the sort of thing that I often do. It would have been a good idea to go back (if it was possible) and do the clip again knowing that the bird seems to prefer to be to the left of the branch, and that this time you might get him in the middle of the picture.

The first clip of the reflection would have been better if the whole of the bird's head could be seen.

Another clip of the cameraman would have been useful - one without the snow towards the beginning of the piece, and keep the one with the snow towards the end.

The fade to black was inappropriate for the situation - it's normally used to show a complete change of day or season, or place. I don't think your change of place - from smooth to rippling water - was strong enough to need this kind of transition, as there were some other clips with slower moving water to help the change from smooth to fast water.

Now, I have inspiration of going out and filming our dippers - I didn't have time last year! But I don't really want snow - just a break in the rain will do.

Keep up the good work.

Mike Beckett · November 27th, 2009, 01:19 PM

Steve,

I haven't a clue, other than it makes them look cool! I hadn't noticed that the head didn't move. As you say, the dipper's head doesn't move, but the whole body does, and the eyes do seem to move as a result.

A BBC programme recently explained why they did that. Little did I realise I should've paid attention, I didn't know it would come in useful!

Steve Siegel · November 28th, 2009, 07:59 AM

Mike,
After commenting, I reviewed some of my own Dipper footage. Indeed they do bob the whole body (including the head) most of the time. Others, like our Spotted Sandpiper wave their tails up and down, leaving the head pretty much alone. I wish I could see that BBC show. We only get them over here years after they are produced, and then only a few.

November 17th, 2009, 09:26 AM	#1
Juha Harjula New Boot Join Date: May 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 12	Dipper 2 (video) Hi. Short clip from last winter. All kind of comments are welcome. http://www.riitti.net/videot/koskikara2.mp4 __________________ nature snapper

November 17th, 2009, 02:23 PM	#3
Juha Harjula New Boot Join Date: May 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 12	Try to save file to disk before viewing. It has worked for others. __________________ nature snapper

November 18th, 2009, 07:26 PM	#6
Caleb Royer Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ozarks, Missouri, USA Posts: 109	Extraordinary! Extraordinary! __________________ 5D Mark II, 70-300mm IS lens, 28-135mm IS lens, 50mm f/1.8 lens, Canon HG20, 503HDV head, Adobe Creative Suite 4 Production Premium

November 19th, 2009, 04:27 PM	#7
Gilles Debord Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: France Posts: 152	I am Frozen Hi Fantastic, all is good, picture and music, i like all, the black and white nuances on the ice, the dipper i'm looking for it since two years may be (sure) for me this winter ? I have a place. The clip is really good, what is the green animal at the end? Gilles __________________ Gilles Debord http://www.wwvideo.tv

November 23rd, 2009, 03:38 AM	#10
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	That's a lovely little film, Juha, and very very cold! The dippers are one of my favourites - any bird that dances is winner for me. I seem to recall they do it to improve their view of their prey under the water. What sort of animal was that at the end, at 3:37 in the video? I can't find it in any of my wildlife books. __________________ Irish Railway Videos on Youtube

November 17th, 2009, 02:19 PM	#2
Steve Siegel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Posts: 840	Juha, I tried to view your clip, but only received a white screen, and finally an error message. Your computer or mine?

November 17th, 2009, 04:15 PM	#4
Steve Siegel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Posts: 840	Juha, Yes, it worked. This is very, very good. I have been trying to shoot our American Dipper for years, and have much trouble finding them. I love your sharply focused footage, and the fact that you get down to water level to shoot. That makes a huge difference. You asked for comments. Here are a few. I would start the music from the beginning. A few more set up shots of the stream would be nice, then a distant shot of the bird, or perhaps the clip where it is on a branch, and finally the close-ups. Don't fade to black. It is distracting. Most of your audience probably doesn't know that this bird feeds underwater, some narrative would help, or perhaps a few diving shots, finishing off with him eating that juicy bug. I really like what you do with the water, too. Nice contrast, speed and it really looks cold. Please show us some more.

November 17th, 2009, 06:01 PM	#5
Kin Lau Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 385	That was very nice indeed, I enjoyed it very much. I've seen the American Dipper in action, and it's a great little bird to shot (I was only shooting stills at the time). If possible, try a few shots from higher angle with the Dipper in calm water so that we can see it swimming underwater. @Steve, I've had them in the Rockies near Banff, and on Vancouver Island west of Victoria. Let me know if you want more info.

November 21st, 2009, 05:50 AM	#8
Bob Thompson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 340	Congratulations, beautiful shots. My only comment would be the sound mix but I am still in awe at the great shots Bob

November 22nd, 2009, 05:22 PM	#9
Brendan Marnell Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 938	That is full of loveliness, Juha. Even the ice you filmed came alive, like I've never seen before. Your dipper proved beyond doubt that the turnstone is not the only bird that does what it says on the label. Of course you could have presented the intro and exit like a pro. I never do, and if I had footage like that I would be too eager to share it. Thanks a lot.

November 25th, 2009, 09:59 PM	#11
Kenneth Burgener Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sanibel Florida Posts: 102	No dippers in Florida, no snow in Florida, no problem. Nice to see your film. I guess I should not complain about the heat and the bugs. Ken

November 26th, 2009, 01:28 PM	#12
Steve Siegel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Posts: 840	Mike, It is thought by some that birds such as pigeons that pump their heads back and forth when they walk do it to gain depth perception. They do not have binocular vision and shifting one eye rapidly between two different locations gives the different angles of view that the brain can synthesize into a sort of binocular vision. Birds like dippers, waterthrushes and certain sandpipers bob their rears, while their heads are relatively stable. Any thoughts on what advantage that movement may have?

November 27th, 2009, 10:07 AM	#13
Annie Haycock Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pembrokeshire, Wales Posts: 734	It's generally thought that tail bobbing as done by small birds alongside water helps to camouflage them - with the movement mimicking that of the water making them more difficult for predators to see. It doesn't really work against a white background, though. This is a nice set of clips, but like Steve says, they could probably be ordered better. I'd guess that for the clip at 2:50 you may have left the camera unattended and didn't know what you'd got until later - the sort of thing that I often do. It would have been a good idea to go back (if it was possible) and do the clip again knowing that the bird seems to prefer to be to the left of the branch, and that this time you might get him in the middle of the picture. The first clip of the reflection would have been better if the whole of the bird's head could be seen. Another clip of the cameraman would have been useful - one without the snow towards the beginning of the piece, and keep the one with the snow towards the end. The fade to black was inappropriate for the situation - it's normally used to show a complete change of day or season, or place. I don't think your change of place - from smooth to rippling water - was strong enough to need this kind of transition, as there were some other clips with slower moving water to help the change from smooth to fast water. Now, I have inspiration of going out and filming our dippers - I didn't have time last year! But I don't really want snow - just a break in the rain will do. Keep up the good work. __________________ Canon XH A1; Canon XF100; Nikon D800 Last edited by Annie Haycock; November 27th, 2009 at 10:42 AM.

November 27th, 2009, 01:19 PM	#14
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Steve, I haven't a clue, other than it makes them look cool! I hadn't noticed that the head didn't move. As you say, the dipper's head doesn't move, but the whole body does, and the eyes do seem to move as a result. A BBC programme recently explained why they did that. Little did I realise I should've paid attention, I didn't know it would come in useful! __________________ Irish Railway Videos on Youtube

November 28th, 2009, 07:59 AM	#15
Steve Siegel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Posts: 840	Mike, After commenting, I reviewed some of my own Dipper footage. Indeed they do bob the whole body (including the head) most of the time. Others, like our Spotted Sandpiper wave their tails up and down, leaving the head pretty much alone. I wish I could see that BBC show. We only get them over here years after they are produced, and then only a few.