Sachtler System 8 SB SL MCF for JVC hd 250? at DVinfo.net

Ronald Wilk · March 4th, 2007, 02:29 PM

Hi:
I am in the market for a new tripod/fluid head system for a JVC GY-HD250 and wonder if anyone has any thoughts, both positive and negative, on the above Sachtler system, which consists of their DV 8 SB Fluid head, 75 CF speedlock tripod and mid-level spreader? My main concerns are stability, given the weight of the camera with its AB battery and DR-Hd100 drive attached and the ability of the head to allow for jerk-free panning.

Thank you in advance,
Ron

Dan Keaton · March 4th, 2007, 08:14 PM

I have a similiar, but not exact system.

Mine is a DV 8 100, Speed Lock II CF legs with mid-level spreader.

The system you are looking at is a 75mm bowl, but it should work well.

The mid-level spreader is very handy and quick to setup.

The package is rated for up to 26.5 pounds, 12 kilograms, so you should be ok, even with the accessories.

The pans and tilts will be smooth.

You should be able to proper counter-balance your camera with or without your accessories.

Ronald Wilk · March 5th, 2007, 09:57 AM

Hi Dan:

Thank you for your reply.

I looked at the 100mm bowl as well but, for the camera setup in question, I think that it may be overkill making the significant price differential difficullt to justify.

Thanks again,
Ron

Ronald Wilk · March 5th, 2007, 10:03 AM

Hi Dan:

There is one other question that I neglected to add to my reply and that is in regards to several notations on this forum regarding excessive flex in the the tripod legs. Has that been your experience and if so, does the spreader circumvent the issue?

Thanks again,
Ron

Dan Keaton · March 5th, 2007, 10:53 AM

I have not used the system that you are considering.

Yours has a 75mm bowl, mine has a 100mm bowl, but I think the legs are very similiar.

I do not have excessive flex. I would say that flex is not an issue at all with my legs.

Yes, the mid-level spreader would help control flex.

In my opinion, all of the comments about excessive flex were not directed to the legs that you are considering.

In my opinion, the Speed Lock II CF legs are just great, and I believe that yours will be great also.

Note that these legs have a "Triple Clamp" system. For a portion of the legs, there are three carbon fiber tubes, locked in a triangle arrangement. They are very strong.

My legs, by themselves, will support 88 pounds. the ones you are considering, the Speed Lock 75 CF, support 44.1 pounds, which is more than enough. Please note that the difference may be just the difference between a 75mm bowl and a 100mm bowl as there is more to clamp onto.

The following is a link to Sachtler's site for the legs only:

http://www.sachtler.com/prod.asp?lid...5847555A5C785B

The following is a link for the whole system:

http://www.sachtler.com/prod.asp?lid...5847555A5C785B

Please note that the picture at the above link is misleading. It shows the ground level spreader, but the package includes the mid-level spreader, which I like much better.

A careful examination of the legs will show you that you can extend the mid-level spreader and make the tripod very short, with the legs spread out a great distance. I found this amazing the first time I tried it.

May I recommend that you call Sachtler? They are very helpful.

Bob Carr

709 Executive Blvd.
Valley Cottage, New York 10989
USA

phone: 845 268 0100
fax: 845 268 0113

Ronald Wilk · March 5th, 2007, 01:05 PM

Hi:

Thank you once again for your speedy and most informative reply. Your suggestion to call Sachtler is well received and I will indeed do so.

Best regards,
Ron

Dan Keaton · March 5th, 2007, 01:07 PM

Dear Ronald,

Thanks for the kind words.

Dan

Tim Le · March 5th, 2007, 01:36 PM

In my experience, there is a difference between the 75mm 2-stage Speedlock CF legs and the 100mm 2-stage Speedlock CF legs (both with mid-level spreaders). So that there is no confusion, these are the two that I am referring to:

75mm Speedlock CF 2-stage

100mm Speedlock CF 2-stage

The 75mm legs is a 4-tube design while the 100mm is a traditional 5-tube design. I don't know if that makes a difference, but the top part on the 75mm where the legs meet the bowl is very narrow and spindly looking. Sachtler didn't just make the opening smaller to fit 75mm but the whole piece is smaller. I tested the 75mm at two different trade shows with live cameras and DV-6SB heads on them and they felt mushy. I thought it was the head but then I traced the problem to the legs. They were flexing a lot when the pan drag was set to a medium to high level. Maybe there was a problem with those particular units, I don't know. I also tested the 100mm with my OConnor head and those legs felt normal, about the same as a Miller Sprinter II, 2-stage CF legs.

These are only my opinions so as always, test this stuff out in person before buying.

Dan Keaton · March 5th, 2007, 01:39 PM

Dear Tim,

That is very good information.

Floris van Eck · March 5th, 2007, 01:57 PM

Dan, I have done extensive research on all tripods over the last weeks and the general consensus is that the Sachtler 75mm legs (all of them) are really bad. They flex which is not the case with the 100mm offerings. That is the thing that really puts me off buying a Sachtler DV-6 at this moment. Which version of the DV-8 head do you have, the latest incarnation (the SB version)? If so, I am interested to find out about the build quality (how sturdy is it).

Ronald Wilk · March 5th, 2007, 01:58 PM

Hi:

Thank you both for your continued input.
I have just concluded a telephone conversation with Bob Carr (Sachtler) and discussed the system in question. After describing the intended use, he suggested the System 8/100 SB which includes the DA 100L (5182) aluminum tripod, ground spreader and the DV 8/100 (0806) fluid head. He indicated that it would be a much more rigid system and since its primary intended venue of employment will, for the most part, protect it from inclement weather and the unintended disregard of handlers and assistents, that the dollar savings generated by purchasing aluminum vs carbon fiber is justifiable.
Any thoughts on that system or the aluminum vs carbon fiber, keeping in mind that the system will not make its way to the jungle, will not be used for the filming of nature environments and will, for the most part, be maintained and used by one singular person???
Thank you in advance,
Ron

Dan Keaton · March 5th, 2007, 02:05 PM

Deaer Floris,

I have a DV 8 100 Sacthler Fluid Head with the Speed Lock II CF legs.

Mine is not the SB version, which is an improvement in the counter-balance function.

I am sorry to head that the 75mm legs are not stiff enough.

Dan Keaton · March 5th, 2007, 02:10 PM

Dear Ronald,

By your post, I assume that you are mainly going to use the tripod in a studio or studio like environment.

The carbon fiber legs (Speed Lock II CF) are very light, rigid, and not likely to be damaged in any way. They can't be dented like an aluminum tripod leg can.

So, the trade off is the money, which I fully understand.

Sachtler gear is very expensive.

Floris van Eck · March 5th, 2007, 02:14 PM

Thanks Dan. The SB version is an improvement with regards to counter-balance but I also hear the build quality is not on par with the old model. That is the reason why I asked you this question.

Ronald, I would not go for that model if you go the Sachtler route. Why? Because it is a 1-stage design. I would go for the System 8/100 SB ENG 2 CF which is more expensive but you do get better material (I suppose) and you can go both lower and higher from the ground (because of the 2-stage design).

I would also look at the Vinten tripods. Their 75 legs are really good (many people told me this) and you can go for the Vision 3 or Vision 6 head. The last one has perfect balance (totally variable balance) from 4.5 to 10kg. But that is also the problem as my camera weighs 3.75kg. Although it will weigh around 5 kilograms when equipped... I want it to work without gear as well.

So I guess it will be Vinten Vision 3 unless someone can really convince me to go the Sachtler route.... Probably head only as I am also looking into Miller/Gitzo legs which can go really high and need no spreader.

Ronald Wilk · March 5th, 2007, 03:03 PM

Dear Dan:

Your assumption is correct. The setup will be used mainly for interviews in an indoor and perhaps and occasional outdoor setting. It seems, however, that the 75mm legs will not fill the bill and I have already reset my aspirations to a 100mm rig. As you indicated, with each upgrade in quality there is a considerable attendant rise in cost and the aluminum consideration was made with that in mind. In addition, the System 8/100 is packaged that way and the addition of CF legs would necessitate a special order. Anyway, I am still open for suggestions but at the same time, I am attempting to reign in the cost ... assuming that is within the realm of possibility.

As for Mr. Van Eck's comments, they are well taken,however, I do not anticipate the need to get very close to the ground, in fact, certain physical disabilities entirely preclude that option. As for height, the stage one tipod in question is more than sufficient once the head and cam are attached. On the other hand, you referred to "better material" and by this I assume that you are referring to the carbon fiber legs or did you have something else in mind?

March 4th, 2007, 02:29 PM	#1
Ronald Wilk Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boca Raton, Florida Posts: 116	Sachtler System 8 SB SL MCF for JVC hd 250? Hi: I am in the market for a new tripod/fluid head system for a JVC GY-HD250 and wonder if anyone has any thoughts, both positive and negative, on the above Sachtler system, which consists of their DV 8 SB Fluid head, 75 CF speedlock tripod and mid-level spreader? My main concerns are stability, given the weight of the camera with its AB battery and DR-Hd100 drive attached and the ability of the head to allow for jerk-free panning. Thank you in advance, Ron

March 4th, 2007, 08:14 PM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	I have a similiar, but not exact system. Mine is a DV 8 100, Speed Lock II CF legs with mid-level spreader. The system you are looking at is a 75mm bowl, but it should work well. The mid-level spreader is very handy and quick to setup. The package is rated for up to 26.5 pounds, 12 kilograms, so you should be ok, even with the accessories. The pans and tilts will be smooth. You should be able to proper counter-balance your camera with or without your accessories. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

March 5th, 2007, 09:57 AM	#3
Ronald Wilk Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boca Raton, Florida Posts: 116	Sachtler system Hi Dan: Thank you for your reply. I looked at the 100mm bowl as well but, for the camera setup in question, I think that it may be overkill making the significant price differential difficullt to justify. Thanks again, Ron

March 5th, 2007, 10:03 AM	#4
Ronald Wilk Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boca Raton, Florida Posts: 116	Sachtler system Hi Dan: There is one other question that I neglected to add to my reply and that is in regards to several notations on this forum regarding excessive flex in the the tripod legs. Has that been your experience and if so, does the spreader circumvent the issue? Thanks again, Ron

March 5th, 2007, 10:53 AM	#5
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	I have not used the system that you are considering. Yours has a 75mm bowl, mine has a 100mm bowl, but I think the legs are very similiar. I do not have excessive flex. I would say that flex is not an issue at all with my legs. Yes, the mid-level spreader would help control flex. In my opinion, all of the comments about excessive flex were not directed to the legs that you are considering. In my opinion, the Speed Lock II CF legs are just great, and I believe that yours will be great also. Note that these legs have a "Triple Clamp" system. For a portion of the legs, there are three carbon fiber tubes, locked in a triangle arrangement. They are very strong. My legs, by themselves, will support 88 pounds. the ones you are considering, the Speed Lock 75 CF, support 44.1 pounds, which is more than enough. Please note that the difference may be just the difference between a 75mm bowl and a 100mm bowl as there is more to clamp onto. The following is a link to Sachtler's site for the legs only: http://www.sachtler.com/prod.asp?lid...5847555A5C785B The following is a link for the whole system: http://www.sachtler.com/prod.asp?lid...5847555A5C785B Please note that the picture at the above link is misleading. It shows the ground level spreader, but the package includes the mid-level spreader, which I like much better. A careful examination of the legs will show you that you can extend the mid-level spreader and make the tripod very short, with the legs spread out a great distance. I found this amazing the first time I tried it. May I recommend that you call Sachtler? They are very helpful. Bob Carr 709 Executive Blvd. Valley Cottage, New York 10989 USA phone: 845 268 0100 fax: 845 268 0113 __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

March 5th, 2007, 01:05 PM	#6
Ronald Wilk Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boca Raton, Florida Posts: 116	Sachtler system Hi: Thank you once again for your speedy and most informative reply. Your suggestion to call Sachtler is well received and I will indeed do so. Best regards, Ron

March 5th, 2007, 01:07 PM	#7
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Ronald, Thanks for the kind words. Dan __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

March 5th, 2007, 01:36 PM	#8
Tim Le Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 350	In my experience, there is a difference between the 75mm 2-stage Speedlock CF legs and the 100mm 2-stage Speedlock CF legs (both with mid-level spreaders). So that there is no confusion, these are the two that I am referring to: 75mm Speedlock CF 2-stage 100mm Speedlock CF 2-stage The 75mm legs is a 4-tube design while the 100mm is a traditional 5-tube design. I don't know if that makes a difference, but the top part on the 75mm where the legs meet the bowl is very narrow and spindly looking. Sachtler didn't just make the opening smaller to fit 75mm but the whole piece is smaller. I tested the 75mm at two different trade shows with live cameras and DV-6SB heads on them and they felt mushy. I thought it was the head but then I traced the problem to the legs. They were flexing a lot when the pan drag was set to a medium to high level. Maybe there was a problem with those particular units, I don't know. I also tested the 100mm with my OConnor head and those legs felt normal, about the same as a Miller Sprinter II, 2-stage CF legs. These are only my opinions so as always, test this stuff out in person before buying. Last edited by Tim Le; March 6th, 2007 at 09:33 AM.

March 5th, 2007, 01:39 PM	#9
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Tim, That is very good information. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

March 5th, 2007, 01:57 PM	#10
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	Dan, I have done extensive research on all tripods over the last weeks and the general consensus is that the Sachtler 75mm legs (all of them) are really bad. They flex which is not the case with the 100mm offerings. That is the thing that really puts me off buying a Sachtler DV-6 at this moment. Which version of the DV-8 head do you have, the latest incarnation (the SB version)? If so, I am interested to find out about the build quality (how sturdy is it).

March 5th, 2007, 01:58 PM	#11
Ronald Wilk Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boca Raton, Florida Posts: 116	Sachtler system Hi: Thank you both for your continued input. I have just concluded a telephone conversation with Bob Carr (Sachtler) and discussed the system in question. After describing the intended use, he suggested the System 8/100 SB which includes the DA 100L (5182) aluminum tripod, ground spreader and the DV 8/100 (0806) fluid head. He indicated that it would be a much more rigid system and since its primary intended venue of employment will, for the most part, protect it from inclement weather and the unintended disregard of handlers and assistents, that the dollar savings generated by purchasing aluminum vs carbon fiber is justifiable. Any thoughts on that system or the aluminum vs carbon fiber, keeping in mind that the system will not make its way to the jungle, will not be used for the filming of nature environments and will, for the most part, be maintained and used by one singular person??? Thank you in advance, Ron

March 5th, 2007, 02:05 PM	#12
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Deaer Floris, I have a DV 8 100 Sacthler Fluid Head with the Speed Lock II CF legs. Mine is not the SB version, which is an improvement in the counter-balance function. I am sorry to head that the 75mm legs are not stiff enough. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

March 5th, 2007, 02:10 PM	#13
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Ronald, By your post, I assume that you are mainly going to use the tripod in a studio or studio like environment. The carbon fiber legs (Speed Lock II CF) are very light, rigid, and not likely to be damaged in any way. They can't be dented like an aluminum tripod leg can. So, the trade off is the money, which I fully understand. Sachtler gear is very expensive. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

March 5th, 2007, 02:14 PM	#14
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	Thanks Dan. The SB version is an improvement with regards to counter-balance but I also hear the build quality is not on par with the old model. That is the reason why I asked you this question. Ronald, I would not go for that model if you go the Sachtler route. Why? Because it is a 1-stage design. I would go for the System 8/100 SB ENG 2 CF which is more expensive but you do get better material (I suppose) and you can go both lower and higher from the ground (because of the 2-stage design). I would also look at the Vinten tripods. Their 75 legs are really good (many people told me this) and you can go for the Vision 3 or Vision 6 head. The last one has perfect balance (totally variable balance) from 4.5 to 10kg. But that is also the problem as my camera weighs 3.75kg. Although it will weigh around 5 kilograms when equipped... I want it to work without gear as well. So I guess it will be Vinten Vision 3 unless someone can really convince me to go the Sachtler route.... Probably head only as I am also looking into Miller/Gitzo legs which can go really high and need no spreader.

March 5th, 2007, 03:03 PM	#15
Ronald Wilk Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boca Raton, Florida Posts: 116	Stage one vs two Dear Dan: Your assumption is correct. The setup will be used mainly for interviews in an indoor and perhaps and occasional outdoor setting. It seems, however, that the 75mm legs will not fill the bill and I have already reset my aspirations to a 100mm rig. As you indicated, with each upgrade in quality there is a considerable attendant rise in cost and the aluminum consideration was made with that in mind. In addition, the System 8/100 is packaged that way and the addition of CF legs would necessitate a special order. Anyway, I am still open for suggestions but at the same time, I am attempting to reign in the cost ... assuming that is within the realm of possibility. As for Mr. Van Eck's comments, they are well taken,however, I do not anticipate the need to get very close to the ground, in fact, certain physical disabilities entirely preclude that option. As for height, the stage one tipod in question is more than sufficient once the head and cam are attached. On the other hand, you referred to "better material" and by this I assume that you are referring to the carbon fiber legs or did you have something else in mind?