Cartoni Focus vs. Sachtler DV-6 SB vs. Vinten Vision 3

[Floris van Eck]

Thanks Jacques. I have looked for more information on aluminum vs. carbon fiber but the difference is still not clear to me. What I read mostly is that carbon fiber is lighter (which is miminimal) and does not corrode in salt water but if you say that you aluminum tripod has survived the elements for six years and still is in good condition I do not see why I would want carbon. I am not afraid that it would dent as I always take very good care of my equipment. But corrossion or rust is something that is hard to control.

[Pete Bauer]

Unfortunately, the Vinten web site is incorrect regarding springs for the Vision 3. From personally testing:
Stock XL2 with 20x or 3x = #3 spring
Stock XLH1 with 20x or 6x - #4 spring

If you add stuff to the rig, it'll change the center of mass and moment arm so you'll have to experiment. It is a very simple, 1 minute job to change the spring and requires only a large flathead screwdriver or a coin. See also:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....8&postcount=19

[Ian Firth]

Hi Floris

<<So you have the #1 and #2 spring for your VX-2000?>>

Not sure who you are asking, but yes, I have both. Since I am far from anyone who stocks them, I got the recommended #1 and a #2 at the same time when I ordered the tripod and head via the Internet.

However, despite what I wrote above, it turns out that my VX2000 balances with the #1 spring and not the #2 spring. My confusion was that the spring I took out was oversprayed a dirty white and the spring I put in was unsprayed and a silver colour. I just assumed therefore that the silver spring was the #2 and the overspray dirty white was a grey #1.

I just took out the second spring and have both in my hand. The oversprayed spring definitely has lighter, thinner coils and is less stiff than the uniform coloured one. So I have the strengths backwards and my VX2000 balances with a #1 spring.

With the #2 spring, the camera returns to around 10 degrees from around 60 degrees in about 3 seconds. I guess I should have realised, when the second spring returned the camera towards the horizontal when released, that the second spring was the stronger one.

Sorry for any confusion that this may have caused.

Just to try and help more, I just put my VX2000 on the kitchen scales and it weighs 1.9 kg (4lb 6 oz).

Cheers, Ian

[Jimmy Alioto]

Just read the recent threads. Great to hear from the Vision 3 users.

So I take it that the Vision 3 is the next best "Head" (if you don't have the money for the Sachtler DV6 SB).

If anyone knows which spring to use with Panasonic HVX200 please let me know.

Floris, how do you like the Rode NTG2 mic? I was looking at those and the AT897 today.

Jacques, Congratulations!!!

[Floris van Eck]

I have a Rode NTG-2 and a Rode NT-3 and I must say I am very satisfied about their performance. They sound very clear and carry a nice price tag. There are always better microphones but these will do fine.

You say the Vinten Vision 3 is the next best thing if you do not have the money for a Sachtler DV-6SB. The DV-6SB is 200 EURO cheaper where I live but from what I hear the Vinten Vision 3 is the better head, and has by far the best tripod legs. The Vinten Vision 3 counterbalance works with the springs, the Sachtler DV-6SB with a 10-step system (so every step basically is a spring). But the Vinten Vision 3 has variable drag while the DV-6 SB has a 5-step drag. So with that said, I just think the Vinten Vision 3 is the better head. And in reality, you won't be changing springs very often. My setup is always the Canon XL-H1 with one of the two Rode microphones and the 970 or 950 battery. I think the weight difference will be at max 0.5kg.

The best option is buying a Vinten Vision 6 which has a perfect balance system so both balance and drag are totally variable. But that costs an extra 600 EURO and will bring the total price with sticks to 2500 EURO.

Vinten recommends a #2 spring for the HVX-200 but I would go for a #3 espeically if you add larger batteries and/or a microphone.

[Jimmy Alioto]

I have heard nothing but great things re the Sachtler DV-6SB. I just do not have the extra money ($600+) so I plan on getting the Vision 3. Check out DVXUser.com, there are many happy people with the Sachtler.

Have you checked the prices at B&H Photo? http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Sachtler DV-6SB: $1,549.95

Vinten Vision 3: $969.95

Miller Solo DV Carbon Fiber: $649.95

Rode NT3 - $249.00

Rode NTG2 - $269.00


Don't get me wrong, I have heard good things about the Vision 3. It looks like the tripod I end up getting.

Thanks for the info on the Rode's. I just saw the Rode NT-3 on-line. Can you please let me know what you use this mic for? Also, would this mic be good for live events? Putting on a boom for over the subject for dialog? , etc. Also, I hope to get into some Doc's, Shorts, etc.

Please look at my web site, these are some of the events I cover.
http://people.tribe.net/giacomino

[Floris van Eck]

Ok, things are different in Europe I guess. They are about the same price here, but for the complete package, the Vinten is more expensive. The Sachtler DV-6 SB MCF Speedlock with Mid-level spreader costs 1675 EURO, while the Vinten Vision 3 costs 1900 without a mid-level spreader. The mid-level spreader will cost another EURO 500/600 which will make it by far the most expensive.

Do you have links to people who are happy with the DV-6SB? The thing is that I have not seen any negative feedback on the Vinten Vision 3 but if I look at the Sachtler it looks more solid and does not have interchangeable springs. But at the end, I guess I just won't change springs very often.

Oh, and with regards to the Rode microphone. The NT-3 is great for indoor use when you are close to a subject. For events, theatre plays and outdoor use the NTG-2 is the obvious choice and really shines.

[Floris van Eck]

A small update on my previous post. I had ordered a Sachtler DV6SB at the end of May and it was backordered. The Sachtler sales rep sold me Sachtler was having supply problems with their factory in Costa Rica (yep, the low-end Sachtlers are not made in Germany). I waited a month and still haven't gotten it so then I went to CineGear Expo and tried out some heads. Many of the heads had live cameras on them so you could check out how well the head balanced the camera and how well it worked on telephoto. Of course, all of the larger, high-end heads from Sachtler, Cartoni and OConnor were amazing, but I was somewhat disappointed with the lower end DV heads from Sachtler. They were smooth but not as consistent as their larger heads on telephoto. Also, the 75mm tripods flexed like crazy. I was also put off by the slightly lower build quality of the lower-end Sachtlers. The Cartoni Focus felt pretty good, but the tilt platform seems to flex and the pan bar also flexed. Cartoni is actually coming out with a baby version of the Cartoni Focus in a few months. Here's a picture of it.

I found this on dvxuser.com and I think it pretty much sums up what I read in so many posts in different forums. The Sachtler head is good, but the Vinten Vision heads are better. The Sachtler legs have way too much flex.

Again, I read five positive comments about the Gitzo and Miller carbon fiber legs (which need no spreader). This is strange as other people as Nigel Cooper from DVuser.co.uk told me to stay clear of the Miller legs.

At this moment, I have my mind set to the Vinten Vision 3 but I am still not sure wether I want aluminum or carbon fiber or Miller legs. I also considered the Vision 6 but it starts at 4,5kg and maybe in the future I will switch to a smaller camera and then balance will be a problem. If I switch to a larger camera, I want 100mm which is not the case... so Vision 3 sounds best.

[Ivan Snoeckx]

Hi Floris,

Just forget those carbon fibre legs. They are not worth the extra money. Aluminium legs are not so much heavier then the carbons. The difference between them is just too small. When I bought my Cartoni Gamma in 2000, I also didn't know what to choose. Today, several years later I have never regreted my choice from back then: 2-stage aluminium.

Hope this helps!

[Floris van Eck]

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

Unfortunately, the Vinten web site is incorrect regarding springs for the Vision 3. From personally testing:
Stock XL2 with 20x or 3x = #3 spring
Stock XLH1 with 20x or 6x - #4 spring

If you add stuff to the rig, it'll change the center of mass and moment arm so you'll have to experiment. It is a very simple, 1 minute job to change the spring and requires only a large flathead screwdriver or a coin. See also:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....8&postcount=19

So Pete, what you are basically saying is that I will need a #4 spring with my stock Canon XL-H1? Have you tested this? And does it mean that when I point my camera down and pull my hands off... it will stay in that position? Or will it spring back and level horizontally? This is essential for me to find out. If it stays in the position you leave it, I will probably need a #4 and #5 and I will buy the #6 as well (I add a Rode NT-3 or NTG-2, NP970 and TA-100 plate).