Manfrotto 501 Problems - It has a mind of its own...

Mark Bournes · February 7th, 2007, 09:05 AM

MIke, yes I do and the front weight bias is bad but it's ok on my libec. Then again with and external lcd monitor on top it only makes it worse. I have found it to work better with the libec 38 compared to the 501. I usually have a wireless receiver attached to the back of the camera and that helps out a lot with the balance.

Mike Teutsch · February 7th, 2007, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bournes

MIke, yes I do and the front weight bias is bad but it's ok on my libec. Then again with and external lcd monitor on top it only makes it worse. I have found it to work better with the libec 38 compared to the 501. I usually have a wireless receiver attached to the back of the camera and that helps out a lot with the balance.

Thanks Mark,

But we were talking about the 503 not the 501 on Floris's stuff. How specifically does your Libec make it less of a problem? I am interested in the head.

Thanks in advance----Mike

Mark Bournes · February 7th, 2007, 09:45 AM

Mike , sorry I typed in the wrong number, I meant the 503. As far as the head on the libec, I do have to move the plate, camera towards the back of the head to get the proper balance, but like I said with the weight, a bigger battery and a wireless receiver on the back helps it balance better. Even with just the camera I find the balance is better, and the camera doesn't lean forward despite the weight of the lens. My guess is the head on the ls 38 is heavier than the 503 and can hold up to an 18 lb camera, so it balances the xl series cameras better then the 503. I'm not sure of the weight range for the 503, but that could be the difference.

Mike Teutsch · February 7th, 2007, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bournes

Mike , sorry I typed in the wrong number, I meant the 503. As far as the head on the libec, I do have to move the plate, camera towards the back of the head to get the proper balance, but like I said with the weight, a bigger battery and a wireless receiver on the back helps it balance better. Even with just the camera I find the balance is better, and the camera doesn't lean forward despite the weight of the lens. My guess is the head on the ls 38 is heavier than the 503 and can hold up to an 18 lb camera, so it balances the xl series cameras better then the 503. I'm not sure of the weight range for the 503, but that could be the difference.

Sorry to beat a dead horse, if that is what I'm doing, but it is not the weight of the head that determines it balance point, it is the center of gravity of the camera and where it is placed on the head. Do you have a picture of yours I could see sometime?

Thanks Mark.

Mike

Mark Bournes · February 7th, 2007, 10:24 AM

Mike, I'll try and send you a picture, extremely busy the next 2 weeks with Daytona and Spring training. I'll try and get you 1 after that. Thanks.

Mike Teutsch · February 7th, 2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bournes

Mike, I'll try and send you a picture, extremely busy the next 2 weeks with Daytona and Spring training. I'll try and get you 1 after that. Thanks.

Thanks Mark!

Floris van Eck · February 7th, 2007, 12:35 PM

Anyway, if both the 503 and the LS-38 are having trouble balancing the XL-H1... what are options do I have. Do the Bogen 516 and/or 519 perform better? What about the Libec LS-55? Or other options that end up around $1200?

Mike Teutsch · February 7th, 2007, 02:27 PM

FLoris,

It is not a head problem, it is a camera problem, and going to a bigger head will not help. On any head you buy the camera's center of gravity should be at approximately the center of the head.

I accomplished this by moving the camera way back. You can also do it by adding weight to the rear of the camera. You can do that by mounting another battery system like Anton Bauer or the Canon double charger system. You could add a FireStore FS-4 like I have and that would balance it out pretty well. Or I sometimes have a couple of wireless units, and that helps a little.

My point is, that going to a bigger or heavier head will do no good on the balance, and may really hurt you on the tilt. Bigger heavier heads have bigger and more powerful counter balance springs. If you go to a big heavy head and try to do tilts, you will be fighting the springs and not able to do tilts easily at all. As soon as you tilt down for example, the camera is fighting to tilt it back up!

Your best bet is to put some weight on the back of the camera, anything to aid in its balance. Many people do that even when using it on their shoulder, to make it more comfortable to hold. It is easy to support the weight on your shoulder if you are not having to hold up as much weight with your arms.

Here is how to check your balance if you want to:

1. Mount your camera on your tripod.

2. Then unlock the tilt.

3. Reduce the tilt resistance to almost nothing or nothing at all. (But before you take all of the tilt resistance off) make sure you are holding the lever for the head, or the camera will tilt either forward or back right away, because it has no resistance and chance are you will not have the camera on center.

4. Now tilt the camera forward to where it wants to fall forward on its own. Note that forward angle and repeat the process tilting the camera back. Shift the camera position forward or back to make small corrections at a time. Repeat the process until the camera falls forward or back from about the same angle of tilt. That will mean that the camera is centered, weight wise, on the tripod. Remember, you are not centering the camera physically, or by how it looks. You are going by the weight distribution of the camera and accessories.

Note where your camera is positioned, when balanced, and you can put it back onto the tripod each time at about the same location and be correct. When you do tilts then, with some tilt resistance of course, it will feel very smooth and will will not even notice that the springs in the 503 are helping you out.

Note that you need to have the viewfinder and all other accessories in the position that they will be most of the time. I.e. viewfinder open or closed, head handle up or down or even on, camera mic on it or off of it.

The physical center of gravity of my XLH1 in its normal configuraton is about at the location that the viewfinder cord plugs in. However, when mounted on the tripod that is not the center because of the weight of the heads handle, my Varizoom Lanc controler, and the Canon adaptor plate. All of those items are on the rear side of the head and counterbalance the camera somewhat.

If at all possible, avoid adding weight to the top of the camera, as in using a top mounted monitor. I have one, but don't use it on top anymore for that reason. They drastically change the center of gravety as you tilt forward or back, because of the height of the weight they add.

Sorry this is so long, but I did not want you to think that a bigger heavier head will cure your problems, as it won't.

Mike

P.S.: I am not saying that you can't change to a head that is more smooth than the 503, of course you can and the heads you mentioned that cost much more will do pans and tilts more smoothly. However, they will be not better at balancing the camera. That is a different story.

Mike

Ian Stark · February 23rd, 2007, 04:04 PM

Could a solution be the 501PLONG plate? Works with the 503 head as well, I believe.

Apologies if I've misread any of this thread or the suggestion has been made before. I've spent 14 hours staring at a NLE screen and my eyesight is failing!

Ian . . .

February 7th, 2007, 09:05 AM	#16
Mark Bournes Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 565	MIke, yes I do and the front weight bias is bad but it's ok on my libec. Then again with and external lcd monitor on top it only makes it worse. I have found it to work better with the libec 38 compared to the 501. I usually have a wireless receiver attached to the back of the camera and that helps out a lot with the balance. __________________ Mark www.sharkvp.com

February 7th, 2007, 09:45 AM	#18
Mark Bournes Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 565	Mike , sorry I typed in the wrong number, I meant the 503. As far as the head on the libec, I do have to move the plate, camera towards the back of the head to get the proper balance, but like I said with the weight, a bigger battery and a wireless receiver on the back helps it balance better. Even with just the camera I find the balance is better, and the camera doesn't lean forward despite the weight of the lens. My guess is the head on the ls 38 is heavier than the 503 and can hold up to an 18 lb camera, so it balances the xl series cameras better then the 503. I'm not sure of the weight range for the 503, but that could be the difference. __________________ Mark www.sharkvp.com

February 7th, 2007, 10:24 AM	#20
Mark Bournes Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 565	Mike, I'll try and send you a picture, extremely busy the next 2 weeks with Daytona and Spring training. I'll try and get you 1 after that. Thanks. __________________ Mark www.sharkvp.com

February 7th, 2007, 02:27 PM	#23
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	FLoris, It is not a head problem, it is a camera problem, and going to a bigger head will not help. On any head you buy the camera's center of gravity should be at approximately the center of the head. I accomplished this by moving the camera way back. You can also do it by adding weight to the rear of the camera. You can do that by mounting another battery system like Anton Bauer or the Canon double charger system. You could add a FireStore FS-4 like I have and that would balance it out pretty well. Or I sometimes have a couple of wireless units, and that helps a little. My point is, that going to a bigger or heavier head will do no good on the balance, and may really hurt you on the tilt. Bigger heavier heads have bigger and more powerful counter balance springs. If you go to a big heavy head and try to do tilts, you will be fighting the springs and not able to do tilts easily at all. As soon as you tilt down for example, the camera is fighting to tilt it back up! Your best bet is to put some weight on the back of the camera, anything to aid in its balance. Many people do that even when using it on their shoulder, to make it more comfortable to hold. It is easy to support the weight on your shoulder if you are not having to hold up as much weight with your arms. Here is how to check your balance if you want to: 1. Mount your camera on your tripod. 2. Then unlock the tilt. 3. Reduce the tilt resistance to almost nothing or nothing at all. (But before you take all of the tilt resistance off) make sure you are holding the lever for the head, or the camera will tilt either forward or back right away, because it has no resistance and chance are you will not have the camera on center. 4. Now tilt the camera forward to where it wants to fall forward on its own. Note that forward angle and repeat the process tilting the camera back. Shift the camera position forward or back to make small corrections at a time. Repeat the process until the camera falls forward or back from about the same angle of tilt. That will mean that the camera is centered, weight wise, on the tripod. Remember, you are not centering the camera physically, or by how it looks. You are going by the weight distribution of the camera and accessories. Note where your camera is positioned, when balanced, and you can put it back onto the tripod each time at about the same location and be correct. When you do tilts then, with some tilt resistance of course, it will feel very smooth and will will not even notice that the springs in the 503 are helping you out. Note that you need to have the viewfinder and all other accessories in the position that they will be most of the time. I.e. viewfinder open or closed, head handle up or down or even on, camera mic on it or off of it. The physical center of gravity of my XLH1 in its normal configuraton is about at the location that the viewfinder cord plugs in. However, when mounted on the tripod that is not the center because of the weight of the heads handle, my Varizoom Lanc controler, and the Canon adaptor plate. All of those items are on the rear side of the head and counterbalance the camera somewhat. If at all possible, avoid adding weight to the top of the camera, as in using a top mounted monitor. I have one, but don't use it on top anymore for that reason. They drastically change the center of gravety as you tilt forward or back, because of the height of the weight they add. Sorry this is so long, but I did not want you to think that a bigger heavier head will cure your problems, as it won't. Mike P.S.: I am not saying that you can't change to a head that is more smooth than the 503, of course you can and the heads you mentioned that cost much more will do pans and tilts more smoothly. However, they will be not better at balancing the camera. That is a different story. Mike __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

February 23rd, 2007, 04:04 PM	#24
Ian Stark Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,237	Could a solution be the 501PLONG plate? Works with the 503 head as well, I believe. Apologies if I've misread any of this thread or the suggestion has been made before. I've spent 14 hours staring at a NLE screen and my eyesight is failing! Ian . . . __________________ www.vit-media.com www.classicmachinefilms.co.uk

February 7th, 2007, 12:35 PM	#22
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	Anyway, if both the 503 and the LS-38 are having trouble balancing the XL-H1... what are options do I have. Do the Bogen 516 and/or 519 perform better? What about the Libec LS-55? Or other options that end up around $1200?