Secced tripods and heads, Sachtler rip offs? at DVinfo.net

Alister Chapman · December 1st, 2006, 03:19 PM

Anyone tried the Secced tripods and heads? Looking at the pictures they look like exact copies of Sachtler heads and legs.

www.secced.com

They are a LOT cheaper than Sachtlers.

Boyd Ostroff · December 1st, 2006, 03:21 PM

When I click on that link I get the message: "Not enough storage is available to complete this operation" (which is coming from the website and not my browser).

Mike Teutsch · December 1st, 2006, 03:22 PM

Can't see as your link is not working. But remember, unlike a copyright which last a very long time, a patent does not last very long at all. It quickly ends up in the public domain and is then used by all who want it. That's life!

Mike

Alister Chapman · December 1st, 2006, 03:48 PM

Looks like the secced server is down. Try this link for a PDF of the full range.

http://www.danvideo.com/pdf/VenusSystem.pdf

Tim Le · December 1st, 2006, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

Looking at the pictures they look like exact copies of Sachtler heads and legs.

Yeah, I don't think the resemblance is a coincidence LOL! Even the knobs are exactly the same shape. Reminds me of when the Russians tried to copy a B-29 during WWII...even the Boeing logo was copied onto the rudder pedals.

Btw, the prices are less than Sachtler but they aren't that inexpensive...

820 Euros for Venus 1
1000 Euros for Venus 2
1920 Euros for Venus 3
3200 Euros for Venus 4

Alister Chapman · December 3rd, 2006, 03:24 AM

Those prices are the prices I have been given for the full kit, ie heads and carbon legs. Thats a third of the sachtler price and IF they are any good a pretty competitive price for a full size tripod kit.

Graham Risdon · February 9th, 2007, 08:14 AM

I was trawling the web and wondered if anyone's tried one of these Secced tripods - how do they compare to the "real thing" Sachtlers?

Holly Rognan · February 11th, 2007, 11:24 AM

I would be very interested in comparisons as well. These look nice.

Dan Brockett · February 11th, 2007, 12:12 PM

While I have never used these tripods, I have had experience with two other Russian knockoffs. One was a copy of a Canon AE-1 that I had for a while when I was young and the AE-1 was the hot new camera. The Russian knock-off, while very functional, was crude and rough in comparison to the Canon. It worked but was not very fun to shoot with. It was built like a tank but had no finesse.

The second Russian experience I have is with my Krasnagorsk K3 16mm camera. Same deal, fairly reliable, built like a tank but crude. The film I would shoot through it had a remendous amount of gate weave and the lens was pretty lousy but it was reliable, I have ran a lot of loads of film through it with nothing breaking.

I would be interested to hear an objective evaluation of these heads and tripods. I suspect that they will be about the same, very similar in looks and features and probably functionally okay, but rough and crude in comparison to a real Sachtler. I am using the DV-6SB head with the HVX-200 and it's a great little head, very good feel.

All the best,

Dan

Kit Hannah · February 11th, 2007, 01:52 PM

What's funny too is their Cranes/Jibs are blatent knock-offs of the Cammate series of cranes/jibs produced in Chandler, Arizona. I know, because we have one. Same head, tube construction, etc. Crazy - first time I've seen those.

Graham Risdon · February 11th, 2007, 04:59 PM

Dan - These are chinese, but I guess the comments still apply...

I guess one of us is going to have to try one!

I'm going to try and line up a back-to-back comparison later this week, but it might mean buying the Secced on SOR!

Graham Risdon · February 18th, 2007, 02:59 AM

Oh well - I bottled it and went out and bought a used Sachtler!

I talked to a few dealers (not ones that had used Sachtlers to sell!) and one or two (who were Secced dealers) expressed concern over the smoothness of the heads, and that while they looked like Sachtlers...

Anyhow, I didn't end up trying them, but the Sachtler 20 with ENG CF legs that I bought is fantastic - smoothest tripod I've ever used and looks like it will go on forever. Famous last words...(!)

Jaron Berman · February 18th, 2007, 05:22 PM

Good call on getting the used legs. You bought a great setup...while Sachtler sells a lot of heads/legs below the 20 or whatever it's called now, the quality is night and day between the DV series and the upper-end gear.

These days, just about everything is made in china. And that's not a bad thing. When quality control is done properly, the only difference between Chinese and ____ manufacturing is price. But knowing a LOT of people having products mfg'd in China, it takes a ton of oversight to ensure high standards.

One place where China gets a little iffy is intellectual property. They don't have stringent patent or copyright infringement laws, and in many cases the government is happy to look the other way if a Chinese company is making money off U.S. patents. Many times a foreign (American, German, etc...) company will have components or entire products built in China, only to find out a month into the cycle that the company has contacted their resellers directly, offering the same product at a significantly reduced price. Most likely, these tripods are of that variety - quick copies of parts already being manufactured in China. The level of secrecy and game-playing that outside companies have to do in order to protect their I.P. is insane, and I'm sure it'll one day be an interesting book. For example, most U.S. companies hand-deliver their product specs in pieces, ship U.S. parts in unlabeled boxes and only allow manufacturers access to VERY limited information about the product itself. BUT, look out for this kinda stuff. Just because it looks like a name brand product, and the casing may even be made on the same molds as the original product doesn't mean the entire product IS a replica.

Graham Risdon · February 18th, 2007, 06:43 PM

Good point Jaron

I guess time will tell about the Secceds (and other chinese gear). I suppose copying existing products is how many Japanese companies started, so you never know, maybe we'll all be using chinese cameras in a few years!

I wonder if they'll start copying Sony's HDCAM range at a third of the price!!!

All the best

Graham

Jaron Berman · February 18th, 2007, 07:41 PM

I'd imagine that's coming sooner than later. In the Chinese domestic market, HD DVD players have been available for a few years now - technology based on MPEG-4 using standard DVD discs. Apparently it looks quite good...though I've never seen it in person.

Right now, Chinese companies are paying top-dollar for Japanese engineers to jump ship and help update/build high tech infrastructure to do exactly that - make good products cheaply. Japan reinvented their economy based on consumer electronics. But it's no longer cheap to mfg in Japan, so you can bet China is looking at that ridiculously quick economic turnaround as a model and market to capture. Good for us!

December 1st, 2006, 03:19 PM	#1
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Secced tripods and heads, Sachtler rip offs? Anyone tried the Secced tripods and heads? Looking at the pictures they look like exact copies of Sachtler heads and legs. www.secced.com They are a LOT cheaper than Sachtlers. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

December 1st, 2006, 03:22 PM	#3
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	Can't see as your link is not working. But remember, unlike a copyright which last a very long time, a patent does not last very long at all. It quickly ends up in the public domain and is then used by all who want it. That's life! Mike __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

December 1st, 2006, 03:48 PM	#4
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Looks like the secced server is down. Try this link for a PDF of the full range. http://www.danvideo.com/pdf/VenusSystem.pdf __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

December 3rd, 2006, 03:24 AM	#6
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Those prices are the prices I have been given for the full kit, ie heads and carbon legs. Thats a third of the sachtler price and IF they are any good a pretty competitive price for a full size tripod kit. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

February 9th, 2007, 08:14 AM	#7
Graham Risdon Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 192	Anybody tried one of these I was trawling the web and wondered if anyone's tried one of these Secced tripods - how do they compare to the "real thing" Sachtlers?

December 1st, 2006, 03:21 PM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,798	When I click on that link I get the message: "Not enough storage is available to complete this operation" (which is coming from the website and not my browser).

February 11th, 2007, 11:24 AM	#8
Holly Rognan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Coalville America Posts: 244	I would be very interested in comparisons as well. These look nice.

February 11th, 2007, 12:12 PM	#9
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Reply While I have never used these tripods, I have had experience with two other Russian knockoffs. One was a copy of a Canon AE-1 that I had for a while when I was young and the AE-1 was the hot new camera. The Russian knock-off, while very functional, was crude and rough in comparison to the Canon. It worked but was not very fun to shoot with. It was built like a tank but had no finesse. The second Russian experience I have is with my Krasnagorsk K3 16mm camera. Same deal, fairly reliable, built like a tank but crude. The film I would shoot through it had a remendous amount of gate weave and the lens was pretty lousy but it was reliable, I have ran a lot of loads of film through it with nothing breaking. I would be interested to hear an objective evaluation of these heads and tripods. I suspect that they will be about the same, very similar in looks and features and probably functionally okay, but rough and crude in comparison to a real Sachtler. I am using the DV-6SB head with the HVX-200 and it's a great little head, very good feel. All the best, Dan

February 11th, 2007, 01:52 PM	#10
Kit Hannah Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fresno, California Posts: 528	What's funny too is their Cranes/Jibs are blatent knock-offs of the Cammate series of cranes/jibs produced in Chandler, Arizona. I know, because we have one. Same head, tube construction, etc. Crazy - first time I've seen those.

February 11th, 2007, 04:59 PM	#11
Graham Risdon Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 192	Dan - These are chinese, but I guess the comments still apply... I guess one of us is going to have to try one! I'm going to try and line up a back-to-back comparison later this week, but it might mean buying the Secced on SOR!

February 18th, 2007, 02:59 AM	#12
Graham Risdon Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 192	Oh well - I bottled it and went out and bought a used Sachtler! I talked to a few dealers (not ones that had used Sachtlers to sell!) and one or two (who were Secced dealers) expressed concern over the smoothness of the heads, and that while they looked like Sachtlers... Anyhow, I didn't end up trying them, but the Sachtler 20 with ENG CF legs that I bought is fantastic - smoothest tripod I've ever used and looks like it will go on forever. Famous last words...(!)

February 18th, 2007, 05:22 PM	#13
Jaron Berman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 439	Good call on getting the used legs. You bought a great setup...while Sachtler sells a lot of heads/legs below the 20 or whatever it's called now, the quality is night and day between the DV series and the upper-end gear. These days, just about everything is made in china. And that's not a bad thing. When quality control is done properly, the only difference between Chinese and ____ manufacturing is price. But knowing a LOT of people having products mfg'd in China, it takes a ton of oversight to ensure high standards. One place where China gets a little iffy is intellectual property. They don't have stringent patent or copyright infringement laws, and in many cases the government is happy to look the other way if a Chinese company is making money off U.S. patents. Many times a foreign (American, German, etc...) company will have components or entire products built in China, only to find out a month into the cycle that the company has contacted their resellers directly, offering the same product at a significantly reduced price. Most likely, these tripods are of that variety - quick copies of parts already being manufactured in China. The level of secrecy and game-playing that outside companies have to do in order to protect their I.P. is insane, and I'm sure it'll one day be an interesting book. For example, most U.S. companies hand-deliver their product specs in pieces, ship U.S. parts in unlabeled boxes and only allow manufacturers access to VERY limited information about the product itself. BUT, look out for this kinda stuff. Just because it looks like a name brand product, and the casing may even be made on the same molds as the original product doesn't mean the entire product IS a replica.

February 18th, 2007, 06:43 PM	#14
Graham Risdon Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 192	Good point Jaron I guess time will tell about the Secceds (and other chinese gear). I suppose copying existing products is how many Japanese companies started, so you never know, maybe we'll all be using chinese cameras in a few years! I wonder if they'll start copying Sony's HDCAM range at a third of the price!!! All the best Graham

February 18th, 2007, 07:41 PM	#15
Jaron Berman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 439	I'd imagine that's coming sooner than later. In the Chinese domestic market, HD DVD players have been available for a few years now - technology based on MPEG-4 using standard DVD discs. Apparently it looks quite good...though I've never seen it in person. Right now, Chinese companies are paying top-dollar for Japanese engineers to jump ship and help update/build high tech infrastructure to do exactly that - make good products cheaply. Japan reinvented their economy based on consumer electronics. But it's no longer cheap to mfg in Japan, so you can bet China is looking at that ridiculously quick economic turnaround as a model and market to capture. Good for us!