Vinten Vision 3 + Manfrotto 3046 Legs ??

[Paul Dhadialla]

Hi Guys, I wanted to know if this combination is possible. Can you by using a Bogen Flat to Bowl adapter put a Vinten Vision 3 head on a Manfrotto (non-bowl) set of legs

More specifically ...

Vinten Vision 3 Head +

Bogen 325N Bowl to Flat Adapter +
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=404139&is=REG

Bogen 3046 Legs
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ku=5524&is=REG

The reason I want those legs is for the center geared column. I need the extended height and this can go pretty high. I'm not a big fan of Manfrotto heads and wanted to move to something nicer.

I'm not having much luck finding a good tripod setup for about $1200 budget with a nice head and geared column by any one manufacturer. Those legs are good but most nice heads are bowl based.

Gear is Z1U w/Matte Box

Thanks guys
Paul

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Sorry to bump such an old thread, but I'm really curious about this.

I have a Manfrotto flat base tripod (475B) and I want to use to accomodate a Vision 3 AS head.

I'm also curious whether the Vision 3 AS would fit or not the Flat to Bowl adapter.

These would be the pieces:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/614759-REG/Vinten_V4043_0001_V4043_0001_Vision_3AS_Fluid.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/374313-REG/Manfrotto_319_319_75mm_to_100mm.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/404139-REG/Manfrotto_325N_325N_Video_Head_Adapter.html

Thanks in advance.

[Chris Soucy]

This has come up a few times of late, and the answer I've given on previous occasions was "don't think so" BECAUSE Manfrotto and Vinten clamp bolts have a different diameter/ thread type.

HOWEVER, having read the (new) reviews of the 325 on the B&H web site, one of them mentions "several thread size inserts" which are mysteriously not mentioned as included accessories on either the B&H OR, God help us, the Manfrotto site.

If the 325 does, indeed, have thread adapters to cater for different clamp bolt sizes, you're good to go. If it doesn't, you're not.

I still haven't worked out how you're supposed to level the head with the 325 design, if not by leg lifting (groan), but that's the price you pay for going that route.

To sum up, a definate maybe.

April 30th, 2006? You must have been dumpster diving for quite some time to trawl this one up!


CS

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Chris... I got to this thread by Google search.

Well, if I still have to leg-lift it would be a bad decision.

I have to be 100% certain about this, because ship back from my country to B&H would be a major headache.

I had a pleasant surprise when I went to look for the Vision 3 in B&H, because I haven't done so in a year and the old version had spring-based balance. Nice evolution.

The problem I have with Vision 3 kits is that the legs that come with it are pretty high value for my budget. Instead I'd need something in the $500 range if I get the Vision 3 AS head.

But you do know I'm afraid to ask you for a recommendation on $500 legs, fearing being banned permanently from the tripod session and tagged a balance herectic... :)

I'm leaning towards the Vision 3 because I'm basing myself on this post from 2007:

Originally Posted by Jaron Berman

Having compared these heads myself, based on your criteria - ONLY smoothness, here's what I thought

Vinten with the Cartoni an eyelash behind
Sachtler - very smooth, but sloppy and flexes like crazy
Manfrotto - not in the same league

BUT, there is more to this story. Depending on the range of cameras you'll use, how heavy a system you can use, and how tightly you need it to balance, the decision once again gets complicated.

The Vinten, in my personal opinion, is the clear overall winner in quality. The Vinten fluid system is a cut above anything close to this price class - it feathers starts and stops internally, building drag as you push harder against it. Brilliant! BUT, it uses an archaic balance system. If you don't think you'll be changing the weight and c.g. of your camera very often, this is a non-issue. If you use multiple different configurations in the same day, this may not be the head for you.

The Cartoni is exceptionally smooth. The price is incredible, and it balances a large range of cameras. Plus, it uses the larger bowl, making it more compatible with accessories from dollies to hi-hats, to jibs and more. BUT, the build quality is not up to the quality of any of the others. While many users have had great success with it, the castings are not as good as the others, and long-term issues have come up in a large number of these heads. Oh, and it's like a lead brick. The thing is HEAVY.

Sachtler's upmarket offerings are, as has been pointed out, the industry standard. They are relatively lightweight and very durable...mostly. The quality of plastic used on the head casings is quite resilient. The plastic used for quick release knobs, kipp handles, etc.. is not as good. For some reason they use brittle, oddly formed controls on the spots most likely to break. Unlike the higher-end gear, the DV series does not use the castings/millings to protect the plastic parts... smart! So the majority of DV-series sachtler's I've used have been broken in all the same spots. Sachtlers are VERY linear in their feel, across the board. But I find a lot of slop and backlash in their DV heads. While moving, they are incredibly smooth, but at the beginnings and endings of moves, the DV's are easily outclassed (even with drag almost entirely off). They offer a nice range of drag, with repeatable click stops. As for balance, the speed balance system is very nice, though the lowest setting may still be too much for certain popular cameras.

As for the Manfrotto - if you're looking for nice features, this head has a lot. The balance system is the best of the bunch. The drag is adjustable in myriad ways. BUT, it's nowhere near as smooth as any of the others. It's VERY compact and lightweight, and in kit-form it's a great deal. You can, however, get a lot more for your money by spending just a little more on one of the others.

And for legs? I'm in love with the Miller Solo legs. Super light, very durable, no need for a separate hi-hat, no spreader, and they go HIGH when necessary. Very little wind-up at any height. If you're getting a 75mm bowl head, do yourself a favor and get these legs. A giant step up from any of the kit offerings of any of these heads for not a lot more (if any more) money.

Is it still the case with the Vision 3 AS? Any new head that was introducted recently I should be aware of?

Thanks.

[Chris Soucy]

Well, you haven't said what you intend to park on this new head, so any recomendation would be entirely subjective and not particularly usefull.

The Vision 3 AS is indeed a major improvement over the original and hard to fault, tho' not perfect:

Vinten Vision 3 AS Tripod (1 of 4) at DVInfo.net

I certainly have a love affair with mine.

At the risk of getting myself banned from the forum, it has been mentioned a number of times that the Manfrotto 525 legs have worked well with the V 3 series heads, tho' I'm still very wary about that Vinten/ Manfrotto problem with the clamp knob/ receiver thing I reported on ages ago.

I've been assured it's not an issue with the 525's, I'll leave you to do your own leg work on that one.

Good luck.


CS

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Thanks for the review link Chris. I wasn't aware of it.

Some of your statements made me quite aware of its potential problems for me when you mention the minimum counter-balance load.

I'd be using with a very lightweight setup of a Lumix GH1, just rods and a follow focus: http://a.imageshack.us/img227/2938/indigh1rig.jpg

Future use would include a Scarlet and more cine gear (perhaps mattebox), but nothing in the levels of a full-blown XDCAM.

However if my future seems so light I'm already considering this kit: Sachtler 0372 FSB-4 Aluminum Tripod System 0372 - B&H Photo

[Chris Soucy]

That Sachtler head gets some very good write ups, tho' I'd be a bit wary of those legs, they don't.

Something a tad gruntier would be better for HD use.


CS

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

It's only weird that they sell FSB-4 kits for a good price but the head alone costs more than the kit. Makes no sense to me!

But you sold me the Vinten Vision 3 AS with this review Chris, if all I have to fight is stubborn tilt, I'm ok with that!

[Chris Soucy]

I can't give too much away (at this point) owing to confidentiality agreements, but if you're going to be shooting lighter than a 3 AS can deal with, come September 1st, am I gonna have the baby for you?

You bet, and it's a real corker.

I currently have a full pre- production rig here, under test, with my Canon XH A1 parked on top, and it's one real sweet piece of kit.

With the full system prices I've been quoted, they're gonna sell faster than beer steins at Oktoberfest.

Stay tuned to this channel for the next exciting episode!

(And if you're contemplating a support system for lighter HD camcorders, keep your hand off that credit card till you've heard from me!).


CS

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Always valuable advice.

I'll hold my buy and see what comes up.

Thanks once again.

[Chris Soucy]

I did start a reply, but realised I'd breached about 5 levels of confidentiality agreement by the second paragraph, so had to can it.

This is going to be REAL good, so good I almost feel it's TOO good to be true.

BUT, I have one, (a pre production version at that!) and it's utterly amazing. And the price, Geez, they're giving it away.

No shonky Chinese stuff either, top of the line, best in the market and something totally unexpected from this particular manufacturer.

I'm stunned, I think anyone buying one will be too. (Think I just broke another couple of confidentiality markers, but hey).

This really is a total watershed for light weight HD video camcorders. There isn't, and won't be, for the forseeable future, anything to even come close.

(Whoops, just had to delete another serious breach of ethics, bugger)

Stay tuned folks, review on the way, going live (all things being equal) on September 1st.

And this rig rocks! No kidding.


CS

[Chris Joy]

CS, I was about the pull the trigger on a new tripod (FSB4 or 6) for the 5D2 after spending a couple hours fiddling with all the lightweight options at B&H, but after reading your post about something big coming on 9/1, I'm going to hold off. Thanks for prolonging my tripod search agony. Now if its worth the wait, I'll be thanking you again in a couple weeks.

[Chris Soucy]

It's worth the wait.

Just to change the subject slightly, as you're a 5D2 shooter, I'm working on a device which would allow those shooters with dinky camcorders, HDSLR's AND full size camcorders in their arsenals to use all three types of camera on one suitably rated head and still achieve perfect counterbalance.

The head needs to be rated for the heaviest/ highest COG camera, but as long as it is suitably rated, this gizmo would bring any smaller cam up to that heads operating level.

Not close, not in the ball park, but perfectly.

Just to make this clear - 1 tripod, 1 head, pretty well any size/ COG camera you like, just add and configure gizmo and away you go.

For example, a Canon HV 20 could be made to work perfectly with a Vinten Vision 3 AS head.

Better still, if you have a stepped CB head like the Sachtlers, it would allow you to, in effect, remove the steps, to ensure perfect counterbalance no matter what camera you have parked on it.

For the fixed CB heads like the Manfrotto 501/503HDV, it would allow you to up your camera's COG to perfectly match the fixed spring.

(Nope, not having mastered the art of levitation, I can't get it to work the other way round, but I'm working on it!).

Anybody interested in such a device if I can keep the price under control, say $150 -$ 250?

The rational for this is that the resolutions and frame rates keep going up (thus requiring better and better camera support) and the size, weights and COG's keep going down (putting those cameras well under the operating characteristics of decent heads and there is a really serious problem engineering heads that can work with such small weight/ COG's).

Add gizmo, problem solved.

Any takers?

Comments?

The more the merrier as I'm trying to convince interested parties that this is not a solution desperately in search of a problem.


CS

[Mike Beckett]

Interesting, Chris... provided it isn't made up of 3kg of solid lead!

I'm waiting to see what the Vinten announcement is first, though. I love my big Sachtler DV6-SB, but it's a bit overkill for my dinky HMC41 now.

[Chris Soucy]

Bit of a no brainer really, but I'm............Gonna suprise you one day!

I'm "Romancing the Stone" with Barbara at Sachtler, she'll crack eventually, they always do.

(Resistance is Futile - sound familiar? Think it was something my bank manager said once, quite seriously, before the Borg invaded. Something about my overdraught.)

Stay tuned, you'll find out soon enough.


CS