Question about a broadcast tripod at DVinfo.net

Rory Lane · August 31st, 2019, 05:32 PM

I was at a baseball game last week and noticed their tripods. The tripod handles were different than anything I have seen before. The pan handle came out like most tripods, but then there was a vertical handle. Since these had long lenses, I am sure these are specialized tripods. Does anyone know what these are?

Edward Carlson · August 31st, 2019, 09:45 PM

The handle you saw was likely the zoom demand. They replace the end of the pan handle, and have an elbow joint that can be rotated around to fit the operator's style.

For example: https://alliedbroadcastgroup.com/wp-...6/IMG_2134.jpg

Allan Black · August 31st, 2019, 11:31 PM

Very interesting, the pro version I guess.

Rory, if you’re looking for a consumer version, a few years ago I bought and successfully used the early version of the pan bar below, on my Miller Compass 25 tripod. This is its latest version ...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...2855/KBID/3801

Cheers.

Paul R Johnson · September 1st, 2019, 01:18 AM

Odd this has never surfaced before. I don't bit of studio work still, though all the work is a bit of a travel, and occasionally a bit of sport, and often there's a mix of camera folk with all sorts of backgrounds. If you Google zoom and focus demands you'll see loads of these things from simple ones for controlling a zoom, with record and maybe focus assist buttons, through versions with speed controls for the zoom, and then clever ones with shot boxes - very, very handy for repeating exact focal lengths with a full speed zoom to them so you set up the zoom so the framing is perfect, then you store that. You can repeat exact shots, so in cricket you can have the framing for the batsman waiting for the bowl, then as soon as the red light goes out you press the button and the zoom snaps to the wider shot, then you can go back to exactly the same framing.

The problem is the damn things cost crazy money!

For me, going in to perhaps do cover is when the cameras are set up for BBC style folk where they have focus on the right and zoom on the left, but other ops have zoom right and focus left, so you need to get used to both. I do prefer to have my zoom on the pan handle but the precise angle is down to how high the thing is and if I'm having to stand in a funny place to pan etc. There does seem to be a trend in OB to have the two handles go up, then the handles drop down but this only works when you are directly behind the camera and have a limited left right range. If you go too far your thumb is in an awkward position on the zoom. Oddly, with longer lenses, some people prefer the demands closer to the head, when physics suggest extra weight is better controlled by longer distances to the zoom which reduces the effort. We're all different.

Derek Heeps · December 27th, 2024, 04:01 PM

I’ve always had zoom demand on the right , because I usually focus with my left hand , I was never a big fan of focus demands , at least the ones I used were the mechanical type with a Bowden cable and the small worm screw which fitted onto the side of the lens and you just twisted the handle to focus ; they were vague imprecise things .

Using left hand to focus on the lens and demand on the right pan handle , to me at least , is not so far away from being shoulder mounted and you have the zoom rocker under your right hand fingers and focus with the left hand .

The strangest thing I remember was an early tube camera which had a single rod projecting out of the end of the camera with a wheel on the end , it has been 40 or 50 years but I think you turned the wheel to focus and pushed/pulled the rod in/out to zoom , might have been the other way round

Paul R Johnson · December 29th, 2024, 01:08 PM

No - you are correct, turn for focus and push and pull for zoom. Sony had one I used in the 70's big orange and silver thing (1200 rings a bell as a model, but probably wrong!)

If you operate from the side, then right hand at the back for zoom, and focus direct on the lens makes sense - but the old EMI 2001 and cameras of that age had their focus knob on the main casing, not on the pan handle - as it was a mechanical linkage. Servo focus nowadays is pretty nice, better than the bowden cable versions which always had backlash.

Derek Heeps · December 30th, 2024, 04:34 AM

Thanks , makes sense . I can't remember what make the camera I used was - so long ago - but it partnered the JVC Nivico KV 250 reel to reel monochrome recorder my school had , which was where I used it . Much later I acquired a couple of these recorders , and a 'portable' colour one ! I also picked up a couple of the Panasonic EIAJ video cartridge recorders ( which used a cartridge resembling a car 8-track audio cartridge ) , all of which I eventually donated to a museum I still occasionally help out with .

Incidentally the Museum of Communication , here in Scotland , also had a set of EMI cameras , obtained from the BBC , with the four turret mounted lenses and monitor in the back ; they came on massive Vinten pedestals , mounted on dollys . I was more impressed with the tripods than the cameras !

Oh , we also had a Vinten 16mm film camera which was designed to be fitted in place of one of the machine guns in a Spitfire ! It had an amazing lens which tapered almost to a point .

Christopher Young · December 30th, 2024, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rory Lane

I was at a baseball game last week and noticed their tripods. The tripod handles were different than anything I have seen before. The pan handle came out like most tripods, but then there was a vertical handle. Since these had long lenses, I am sure these are specialized tripods. Does anyone know what these are?

Having worked on many OBs over the years, I'll tell you now every cameraman has his own particular 'pet' setup. These can include a variety of positions for the demand grips. Pointing up, down and any angle between. Most OB camera setups will have the zoom demand on the left side and the focus on the right side. But that is not set in stone. It's very much up to the cameraman or crew setting up the cameras. You can also add both zoom and focus 'shot boxes'. The shot boxes allow you to pre-program a host of shot sizes and focus points.

Look at the attached JPG to see the optional kit available for OB zoom and focus setups. Also look at the following videos to see what's involved in setting up an OB cam. And that's a simple setup without syncing for virtual graphics overlays. Which requires a very accurate setup of the camera to ensure perfect sync with the on screen virtual graphic overlays.

Finally, a little video showing an OB cameraman putting his skills to use.

Chris Young

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IJe3kHLRb0Y

Paul R Johnson · January 3rd, 2025, 09:21 AM

...... and of course those vector heads are the best I have ever used - a design Vinten started must be 50 years ago - with the clever CoG (or CoM) adjustment that doesn't need springs or fluid - hang a box lens on them, and they just stay in perfect balance. Brilliant bits of kit, but sooooooo heavy. I have two really ancient old versions in my studio. Nothing beats them!

Derek Heeps · January 5th, 2025, 10:54 AM

Vinten made some impressive bits of equipment , I’ve played with a couple of their Vision series heads . I also had occasion to set up , for a display , a couple of their pedestals , supporting early ex BBC EMI cameras with turret lenses .

What surprised me some 30 or 40 years ago is that they didn’t just make camera supports : they made cameras too !

When I helped out with the Museum of Communication here in Scotland , we were donated a Vinten high speed 16mm camera , which was designed to fit in place of one of the machine guns in the wing of a Spitfire ! The EMI cameras and Vinten pedestals are part of the same collection.

The camera is probably still in the collection, although I moved away and haven’t been in touch for a while .

Who knows what else they made ?

Paul R Johnson · January 7th, 2025, 09:09 AM

Movie cameras, sound booms - loads of studio support gear and pretty much the kind of kit that needed solid engineering. I still have a Dolphin jib - mega heavy thing but amazingly solid.

They had a way of naming their products after animals and birds in particular - the motorised studio Heron crane, Petrels, Dolphins, Kestrels, Peregrines, Fulmar.

Manfrotto and Satchler (and others) were bought up by the Vinten Group. The pantograph head design is so simple, but functional. As you tilt the camera down, perched on top of the head, it moves the camera back so the centre of gravity stays in the right place.

They also had a couple of post head designs that rarely get a mention. Cygnet and Swan. These allowed the camera to rotate around the centre of gravity - using a post on one side of the head. I've still got a cygnet. The beauty is if you use it for aviation, as I do, you can set it up so the camera can actually point vertically up! You can have an aircraft drop parachutists above your head, and follow them all the way down to the ground. You cannot do that on ordinary heads - great for airshows too.

August 31st, 2019, 05:32 PM	#1
Rory Lane New Boot Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14	Question about a broadcast tripod I was at a baseball game last week and noticed their tripods. The tripod handles were different than anything I have seen before. The pan handle came out like most tripods, but then there was a vertical handle. Since these had long lenses, I am sure these are specialized tripods. Does anyone know what these are?

August 31st, 2019, 09:45 PM	#2
Edward Carlson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Hollywood, CA, United States Posts: 807	Re: Question about a broadcast tripod The handle you saw was likely the zoom demand. They replace the end of the pan handle, and have an elbow joint that can be rotated around to fit the operator's style. For example: https://alliedbroadcastgroup.com/wp-...6/IMG_2134.jpg

August 31st, 2019, 11:31 PM	#3
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,961	Re: Question about a broadcast tripod Very interesting, the pro version I guess. Rory, if you’re looking for a consumer version, a few years ago I bought and successfully used the early version of the pan bar below, on my Miller Compass 25 tripod. This is its latest version ... https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...2855/KBID/3801 Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

September 1st, 2019, 01:18 AM	#4
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,049	Re: Question about a broadcast tripod Odd this has never surfaced before. I don't bit of studio work still, though all the work is a bit of a travel, and occasionally a bit of sport, and often there's a mix of camera folk with all sorts of backgrounds. If you Google zoom and focus demands you'll see loads of these things from simple ones for controlling a zoom, with record and maybe focus assist buttons, through versions with speed controls for the zoom, and then clever ones with shot boxes - very, very handy for repeating exact focal lengths with a full speed zoom to them so you set up the zoom so the framing is perfect, then you store that. You can repeat exact shots, so in cricket you can have the framing for the batsman waiting for the bowl, then as soon as the red light goes out you press the button and the zoom snaps to the wider shot, then you can go back to exactly the same framing. The problem is the damn things cost crazy money! For me, going in to perhaps do cover is when the cameras are set up for BBC style folk where they have focus on the right and zoom on the left, but other ops have zoom right and focus left, so you need to get used to both. I do prefer to have my zoom on the pan handle but the precise angle is down to how high the thing is and if I'm having to stand in a funny place to pan etc. There does seem to be a trend in OB to have the two handles go up, then the handles drop down but this only works when you are directly behind the camera and have a limited left right range. If you go too far your thumb is in an awkward position on the zoom. Oddly, with longer lenses, some people prefer the demands closer to the head, when physics suggest extra weight is better controlled by longer distances to the zoom which reduces the effort. We're all different.

December 27th, 2024, 04:01 PM	#5
Derek Heeps Major Player Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Glasgow , Scotland Posts: 273	Re: Question about a broadcast tripod I’ve always had zoom demand on the right , because I usually focus with my left hand , I was never a big fan of focus demands , at least the ones I used were the mechanical type with a Bowden cable and the small worm screw which fitted onto the side of the lens and you just twisted the handle to focus ; they were vague imprecise things . Using left hand to focus on the lens and demand on the right pan handle , to me at least , is not so far away from being shoulder mounted and you have the zoom rocker under your right hand fingers and focus with the left hand . The strangest thing I remember was an early tube camera which had a single rod projecting out of the end of the camera with a wheel on the end , it has been 40 or 50 years but I think you turned the wheel to focus and pushed/pulled the rod in/out to zoom , might have been the other way round

December 29th, 2024, 01:08 PM	#6
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,049	Re: Question about a broadcast tripod No - you are correct, turn for focus and push and pull for zoom. Sony had one I used in the 70's big orange and silver thing (1200 rings a bell as a model, but probably wrong!) If you operate from the side, then right hand at the back for zoom, and focus direct on the lens makes sense - but the old EMI 2001 and cameras of that age had their focus knob on the main casing, not on the pan handle - as it was a mechanical linkage. Servo focus nowadays is pretty nice, better than the bowden cable versions which always had backlash.

December 30th, 2024, 04:34 AM	#7
Derek Heeps Major Player Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Glasgow , Scotland Posts: 273	Re: Question about a broadcast tripod Thanks , makes sense . I can't remember what make the camera I used was - so long ago - but it partnered the JVC Nivico KV 250 reel to reel monochrome recorder my school had , which was where I used it . Much later I acquired a couple of these recorders , and a 'portable' colour one ! I also picked up a couple of the Panasonic EIAJ video cartridge recorders ( which used a cartridge resembling a car 8-track audio cartridge ) , all of which I eventually donated to a museum I still occasionally help out with . Incidentally the Museum of Communication , here in Scotland , also had a set of EMI cameras , obtained from the BBC , with the four turret mounted lenses and monitor in the back ; they came on massive Vinten pedestals , mounted on dollys . I was more impressed with the tripods than the cameras ! Oh , we also had a Vinten 16mm film camera which was designed to be fitted in place of one of the machine guns in a Spitfire ! It had an amazing lens which tapered almost to a point .

January 3rd, 2025, 09:21 AM	#9
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,049	Re: Question about a broadcast tripod ...... and of course those vector heads are the best I have ever used - a design Vinten started must be 50 years ago - with the clever CoG (or CoM) adjustment that doesn't need springs or fluid - hang a box lens on them, and they just stay in perfect balance. Brilliant bits of kit, but sooooooo heavy. I have two really ancient old versions in my studio. Nothing beats them!

January 5th, 2025, 10:54 AM	#10
Derek Heeps Major Player Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Glasgow , Scotland Posts: 273	Re: Question about a broadcast tripod Vinten made some impressive bits of equipment , I’ve played with a couple of their Vision series heads . I also had occasion to set up , for a display , a couple of their pedestals , supporting early ex BBC EMI cameras with turret lenses . What surprised me some 30 or 40 years ago is that they didn’t just make camera supports : they made cameras too ! When I helped out with the Museum of Communication here in Scotland , we were donated a Vinten high speed 16mm camera , which was designed to fit in place of one of the machine guns in the wing of a Spitfire ! The EMI cameras and Vinten pedestals are part of the same collection. The camera is probably still in the collection, although I moved away and haven’t been in touch for a while . Who knows what else they made ?

January 7th, 2025, 09:09 AM	#11
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,049	Re: Question about a broadcast tripod Movie cameras, sound booms - loads of studio support gear and pretty much the kind of kit that needed solid engineering. I still have a Dolphin jib - mega heavy thing but amazingly solid. They had a way of naming their products after animals and birds in particular - the motorised studio Heron crane, Petrels, Dolphins, Kestrels, Peregrines, Fulmar. Manfrotto and Satchler (and others) were bought up by the Vinten Group. The pantograph head design is so simple, but functional. As you tilt the camera down, perched on top of the head, it moves the camera back so the centre of gravity stays in the right place. They also had a couple of post head designs that rarely get a mention. Cygnet and Swan. These allowed the camera to rotate around the centre of gravity - using a post on one side of the head. I've still got a cygnet. The beauty is if you use it for aviation, as I do, you can set it up so the camera can actually point vertically up! You can have an aircraft drop parachutists above your head, and follow them all the way down to the ground. You cannot do that on ordinary heads - great for airshows too.