Vinten magic friction fluid

[Bob Hart]

It seems there are two systems provided by Vinten, one referred to as "thin film" and another as "low friction". Beyond those definitions I have little idea as to the difference. Vinten's prmotoion suggests a very wide temperature range the heads will operate in. That may be why their proprietary fluid is special.

As for the base of the Vinten 22, it operates fine so I had no reason to look inside it and maybe introduce faults which are not yet there. Given it sits flat most of its life, there is probably less likelyhood of fluid leaking away.

[Peter Harman]

Hi all, im still here and able to answer your questions. Yes, Vinten make two drag systems; LF and TF.

LF is our oldest drag system, it means Lubricated Friction and basically works like a drum brake filled with Vinten fluid #3. The fluid eliminates the stiction that you'd get from a brake and provides a permanent film of fluid between the two friction surfaces. Unlike a drum brake, the "brake lining" is a rubberised material that provides resistance to movement along with the remaining fluid. I can tell you from experience, the mix that Vinten uses took years to refine. Other mixes either introduced stiction or reduced the drag range.

TF means Thin Film. What we have is a stack of adjustable plated steel shims with spacers between them that provide a void for the drag fluid. As the head moves, this fluid is sheared which creates resistance. The adjustment increases or decreases the void and thus controls the resistance to movement rather like walking through water, the deeper you get, the more water you move and the harder it gets to walk.

There, hope that helps.

By the way, if you are looking for spares for any of our brands, you can get them from our on-line shop which youll find here https://partsstore.vitecparts.com/

All the best

[Simon Chan]

Thanks Peter. Good to have you back.

What about SD? Why was it short lived?

[Peter Harman]

Morning.

The SD drag was a brilliant innovation combining both fluid shear in the drag module and slip from the outer rings, but it was expensive to make both in terms of time and materials, so we brought in TF.

[Graham Kay]

I wonder if it is worth trying to revive this thread, which has some very useful info.

Having recently had a truly staggering quote by a service centre to fix my aged Vinten Vision 11, I am minded to have a go at the repair myself.

A couple of seals have failed with some leakage of the the fluid. I can get hold of the parts needed but the stumbling block is the fluid. There's no way I'm paying £300+ for the Vinten No 3 so I'm interested to know anything more about the alternatives.

Does it mainly come down to the viscocity of the grease - if so, does anyone know the cSt figures for Vinten no 3? How does it compare to the Viscasil 60M or Dow Xiameter PMX200 or similar?

The quote I was given was roughly twice what the head is worth. If it was a car it would be a write-off! If I can just do a good enough job to get a couple more years use out of it, would be happy.

[Bob Hart]

The Vinten heads were sometimes misunderstood by operators who did some rather cruel things like overtightening the friction adjustments in expectation that the drag friction would behave like other brands of fluid heads.

One model of the type was intended to provide friction for smoothness in slow pans but break free with added force for whips or unexpected fast follows.

Folk also tried to use the friction as lockoffs or brakes as the actual locks did not work all that well or were broken by unprotected transport or falls.

There are two friction elements, one non-adjustable and another which is adjustable. Its effect is additive to the fixed non-adjustable friction. The adjustable frictions have stops built in to prevent actual surface to surface contact of the metal surfaces.

All overtightening achieved was to strip threads or break internal parts in the pan assembly. Such damage is the signature of operators who were not taught or did not understand the way the heads were intended to operate.

The parts which contain the fluid material and are non-adjustable are fitted to very small clearance tolerances as matched units. They provide a fixed measure of drag. Mixing and matching and removal of shims does not work.

Feeding new replacement fluid in would require submergence of the assembled part in the fluid within a vacuum environment, then the vacuum released so that the fluid would be driven in without any voids in the fine film between the metal surfaces.

Replacing the friction material between the adjustable components seems easier. The disks are very highly finished thin stainless metal.

If there has been galling of the surfaces due to overtightening or mishap causing the fluid to extrude out, then the bets may be pretty much off as to perfect smoothness of the motion.

I have experimented with Miller fluid which seems slightly tighter and added clear silicone sealer as a thickener. This material so long as it has been agitated after the head has been reassembled actually sets in very small pieces and rolls between surfaces within the thinner fluid. the friction behaves more stiffly but the motion does not become harder with added friction adjustment.

The heads are very difficult to dismantle and reassemble correctly.

The head ow behaves a little more like a Miller head

[Andrew Smith]

I remember reading through all the bits of paper that came with my Miller tripod when I purchased it about a decade ago. Still had no idea what some of the knobs were for. I think there must be a certain amount of assumed knowledge by the people at Miller and I'd value an explanatory video over one of those "this heap big famous director uses our tripod, look at those gorgeous colours in this shot" ones.

Andrew

[Graham Kay]

I've obtained the service manual for the Vinten Vision 11. I know my way round a screwdriver and the disassembly process doesn't look over-intimidating. So I'm happy to give it a go if I can identify the right grease to use.