Tripod system for

[Diego Valle]

Hello all,
I need a rock solid tripod system with which handle two cameras, Sony PMW-300 and Lumix GH4, both with long lenses like Nikon 80-400 and an old Nikkor 600 f5.6 IF-ED I use for wildlife filming.
As the total weight can vary from 2.5 to 8 kilos, which tripod system could be the better in order to minimize vibration issues?
Many thanks

[Chris Soucy]

Hi Diego, welcome to DVinfo.

If by "rock solid" you mean: "the closest thing to having the camera bolted to a 500kg block of concrete in tripod form that is capable of being lifted by a mere mortal" then you need something like this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/78761-REG/Sachtler_5390_CF_100ENG_HD_2CF_Carbon.html

throw in one of these:

Sachtler Mid-Level Tripod Spreader 7007 B&H Photo Video

one of these:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/78853-REG/Sachtler_7004_Rubber_Feet_Set_of.html

of course, one of these:

Sachtler ENG 2 Padded Bag 9104 B&H Photo Video

and, say, one of these:

Sachtler DV 12SB Fluid Head (100mm) 1205 B&H Photo Video

then for a modest US $7000 and change, you're pretty well there.

If you think I'm joking, you obviously didn't really mean "rock solid".


CS

[Diego Valle]

Hi Chris, thank you for your answer I really appreciated.

Yes, what I mean with "rock solid" is just what you said!

In fact I thought to the legs you suggest me with the mid-level spreader; do you think the DV12 is fluid enough and fit very well to such long lenses? (I'm speaking about a focal lenght that can reach 4000mm in 35mm format).

I have to shoot birds of prey in flight very close and therefore the movement can be easily jerky if the head is not fitting.

Many thanks and cheers from Spain.
diego

[Chris Soucy]

Sorry about the delay in responding, for reasons unknown your last post only appeared in my tray this AM, very strange.

Rather than me trying to suggest an appropriate Sachtler head for what is, after all, quite a specialist application, I'll point you to the one person who can not only give you chapter and verse, but can arrange a home test drive of the selected system at your leisure.

If you fire a mail to: Barbara.Jaumann@VitecGroup.com (she's the Sachtler World product manager, based in Germany) giving her all the relevant details she can suggest the most suitable total system, though I doubt Sachtler have anything in their sticks war cabinet better than the one I suggested.

As an aside, as you obviously didn't have a cardiac arrest at my suggested rig, you may wish to consider something like an O'Connor rig, say a 1030D head ( 1030D | OConnor Products ) and their 30L sticks ( 30L | OConnor Products ).

I can't remember their Product Managers name but if you ask O'Connor they have said they too will do home product testing, you just have to pay, er, return shipping, I think, as for Sachtler.

Very expensive gear but you get what you pay for.

Keep us posted, should be a very interesting learning experience.

Regards,


CS

PS: Costs for an OConnor rig - 30L sticks, boots, spreader, 1030D head and case: US $11, 218.00 + shipping. That ticker still working?

PPS: Just got a squizz at the clamp knob/ tiedown for both the OConnor 100mm and 150mm bases for the 1030D, man, I don't think you'll be able to use that head on the Sachtler sticks, might be able to squeak it in on a set of Vintens though from memory nothing of theirs has the sheer grunt of either the Sachtler or OConnor sticks.

[Diego Valle]

Hi Chris,

I'll contact Barbara at Sachtler and keep you informed.

Regards
diego

[Zexun Tan]

Originally Posted by Chris Soucy

PPS: Just got a squizz at the clamp knob/ tiedown for both the OConnor 100mm and 150mm bases for the 1030D, man, I don't think you'll be able to use that head on the Sachtler sticks, might be able to squeak it in on a set of Vintens though from memory nothing of theirs has the sheer grunt of either the Sachtler or OConnor sticks.

I always thought you were partial toward Vinten sticks?

[Chris Soucy]

I always thought you were partial toward Vinten sticks?

Interesting comment. The inference underlying it is based on a fallacy however, though that has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

Sticking with that for the moment, if you re - read posts #1 & #3 you'll see the dreaded phrases "Nikkor 600" & "4000mm", them's pretty scary figures to have on any video camera.

Take that latter figure. At 4000mm, one second of arc (that's 1/60th of 1/60th of a degree BTW) movement of the camera support equates to an image shift of something like 50+ pixels. No OIS system on the planet could compensate for that, even if it was activated, which it won't be because on a tripod it would cause mayhem.

So, you're left with the support system to perform all the lifting, and that's some lifting. My comment in post #2 about the 500kg (1100lbs BTW) block of concrete pretty well sums up the situation. Given that a tripod is, by definition, one heck of a compromise, getting the latter (the tripod) to imitate the former (the block of concrete) is a very big ask indeed.

At that point you can only use sheer unadulterated grunt, always assuming that the machining tolerances are as tight as can be achieved with any mechanical device. Grunt equates to maximum load, the higher the load, the greater the grunt, the greater the grunt the more rigid the support should be, in theory, at least.

Taking a swerve into the engineering scenery, I need to address the Twin Parallel Tube thing. As you all know, the purpose of the TPT is to imitate, as closely as possible, an engineering I beam, which they do reasonably well. Drop down from TPT to a single tube and it's game over, one tube on its lonesome is a pretty pathetic support element.

So, any tripod support worth its salt needs to have legs with either a TPT (2), two nested TPT's (2:2) or even three nested TPT (2:2:2) configurations. The only way to beat those combinations is to use real live engineering I beams, which is easier said than done, though it has been, once; I'll come back to that directly.

The Sachtler tripod I indicated in post #2 is a 2:2:2 system, the OConnor 30l's in post #4 are 2:2's. Both are rated to well in excess of 100lbs load. Vinten do actually make some super grunt sticks, the HDT-1 and HDT-2, the HDT-1 is definitely 2:2, the HDT-2 who knows, they neither say nor have a photo. Neither are designed for standard ball/ bowl type heads so are about as much use as an ashtray on a motorcycle for Diego's situation, even if he could lift the 30+ lbs they weigh.

So, having gone all around the houses, we come back to your comment at the start of this post. Based on my reviews history you could jump to that conclusion, incorrect though it is. I can only review what I actually have in my hands and Vinten have been most generous in letting me play with some pretty neat gear over the years, despite me having the occasional whinge. Other manufacturers haven't been as forthcoming, 'nuff said.

Of course, it all went pear shaped because I started here, with a real live nested I beam system:

DV Info Net Review: Vinten FiberTec Video Tripod by Chris Soucy, Part 1 of 5

After that it was down hill all the way. If Vinten was still making these sticks believe me, I would have suggested them.


CS

[Steve Phillipps]

My reviews here

Blog Entries

I'd suggest if weight and budget no issue O'Connor 2060 (with heavier drag installed) on Sachtler EFP2CF legs.
If budget or weight an issue (or both) a used Sachtler Video 20 on ENG2CFHD legs or some other second hand legs. I have one for sale at the moment actually, can get a good kit for under £2,000.

Steve

[Zexun Tan]

Originally Posted by Chris Soucy

(...)

CS

Thanks for weighing in, Chris. Always learn something new from you.

[Paul R Johnson]

If weight really isn't too much of an issue - remember good old Ebay - old Vinten supports from the 60s and 70s turn up from time to time, and def fall into the HD category. I've still got one supporting my ancient Dolphin arm, and another OB type in my store. You get hernias lifting them up, but solid they certainly are. If you find one near enough to collect - they're exceptionally cheap because people just don't want them. It takes a bit of practice to even touch the pan handle on a very long lens - just touching the handle imparts a real physical sideways or up and down movement!