Vinten head on Oconnor tripod at DVinfo.net

Sander Vreuls · November 22nd, 2012, 11:32 AM

I got a Oconnor tripod (25L) about a year ago, to which I mounted a Manfrotto 116 Mk3 since I had no budget for a higher end head. The manfrotto was a bit overkill for my camera's and rigs (homebuilt is about the weight of a HPX370) and not that great of a quality..

Then I found a Vinten Vision 5 system, which is a fair bit lighter in terms of head capacities yet much better in balance and movements..

The Vinten tripod however is metal, and the Oconnor is carbon fibre and much more versatile. The Oconnor tripod has a lower base height but can extend much more (and has a middle spreader).

So my thought was to put the Vinten head on the Oconnor but it seems like it's not a perfect fit, the Vinten head has a ring around the top of the bowl that means I can't level it properly..

Does anyone have experience with this and are there any solutions? I know there was a topic about this but I can't seem to be able to find it..

Chris Soucy · November 22nd, 2012, 02:04 PM

Hi, Sander.................

Quote:

the Vinten head has a ring around the top of the bowl that means I can't level it properly..

Um, can't really visualise this, any chance of a photo?

CS

Sander Vreuls · November 22nd, 2012, 02:56 PM

It looks like this (Vinten in light grey head/black bowl, Manfrotto in black head/shiny bowl)
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ottovinten.jpg

Chris Soucy · November 22nd, 2012, 03:47 PM

Aha.................

Two things going on here, which one is the real culprit you'll have to figure out yourself.

First off, there isn't an awefull lot of room for manouver with that Vinten ball base, due to it's relatively shallow depth and the flange where it attaches to the head proper, though it wouldn't suprise me if that isn't really what's causing the problem.

The second, and most likely, culprit is that massive clamp cup on the clamp knob.

None of my Vintens will work with my Manfrotto tripods (yes, even I have a couple of Manfrotto's). They'll mount (just) but there's practically no adjustment because the clamp cup hits the underside of the receiver, giving, at most, a couple of degrees of adjustment.

If your tripod has a receiver design akin to a Manfrotto (Sachtler does), that clamp cup is a dead certain game killer.

I've yet to find a small clamp cup replacement that has the correct thread size to work on a Vinten clamp bolt and Vinten have, so far, been unwilling to offer a different design clamp bolt that is compatible with all other makes of tripod receiver.

I shall raise the subject with them again when next I speak to their brand spanking new Product Manager - Andrew Butler, who took up his post on November 1st.

(Actually, I'm suprised Andrew hasn't put his head over the parapet here before now, not that he's probably had any time, not as if being the PM for Vinten couldn't be done by any Joe Blow!)

Peter Harman, the previous long term PM, has moved to set up and head a new teaching division within Vinten.

Not that it's relevant to your situation, Vinten heads share this clamp cup problem with Libec heads, though the Libecs can be worked around as their clamp bolt is identical to Sachtlers, so will accept the much smaller Sachtler "paddle pop" clamp knob.

CS

Sander Vreuls · November 23rd, 2012, 02:05 PM

Thanks for the advice.. real shame as the tripod is pretty good (more versatile than most sachtlers I have worked with!) and the head is quite nice as well..

Ah well.. time to find a Sachtler head or similar then that would fit if there is no other solution such as an adapter :)

Andrew Dean · December 18th, 2012, 05:10 AM

I end up rigging just about every brand of something to every other brand of something, so i keep a lot of random bits and bobs around. One that has come into play time and again was a separate cup and small nut from a kessler cineslider bowl mount. I found the bowl mount to be close to useless on the slider (raised the center of gravity far too high to be stable) but the nut and cup get used over and over for mixing heads and tripods and jibs and highhats.

Replacement Knob for High Hat & Pocket Jib Vertical Brake
and
Replacement Cup Washer

They also sell an m10 knob, which should cover the heads with that post
http://www.kesslercrane.com/product-p/100152.htm

(I THINK the vinten is an m10? Does the manfrotto knob work on the vinten post?)

... and I also have a knob with the stud built in that i use with the kessler cup for heads that have a female thread on the bottom. (sorry, i have no idea where that came from!)

I'm certain there are better solutions out there (if this even addresses your issue), but that one little cup and knob has solved SO many gripping problems for me so many times that it was the first thing that came to mind when I read your post.

cheers!
-Andrew

Chris Soucy · December 18th, 2012, 07:56 PM

The Vinten clamp bolt/ knob is a very knotty problem, as it's the only combination I know of that uses a double start thread, everybody else's use single start, AFAIK.

I have asked Andrew Butler, the new Product Manager at Vinten, if he can maybe source some undrilled/ threaded Manfrotto clamp knobs and get them sorted for the Vinten bolt.

He sounded quite keen to tackle the probem, which is encourageing.

I never got any traction with Peter on this, no matter how much I nagged him, which I did, incessantly over the years.

That would sort this problem once and for all.

I shan't hold my breath, however, it's probably 9/ 10ths of the way down a 10,000 point "to do list".

CS

Andrew Dean · December 21st, 2012, 09:15 PM

really? the vinten is double threaded? Thats wild. I've used my little nut on at least one vinten, but it was the older rebranded 501. hmm.

Chris Soucy · December 21st, 2012, 11:11 PM

Yep, 'fraid so.

The rebranded Manfrotto's would have retained their single start threads, so not true Vinten.

Just to put the clamp cup problem in context, here's a comparison of the three top selling manufacturers clamp cup diameters:

Sachtler 51.5mm / 2 1/16"

Manfrotto 54.3mm / 2 1/8"

Vinten 60mm / 2 3/8"

Solving the clamp cup problem isn't the end of the story however, that 3 lobed Vinten knob doesn't even play nice with at least one Vinten tripod as well, those with the Vb series heads.

It's bound to give grief with other tripod makes.

We'll get there.

CS

Stephen Strangways · May 16th, 2013, 11:14 AM

I'm looking into purchasing an Induro DR Hi-Hat Tripod, and I want to use my Vinten Vision Blue head with it, and get it as low to the ground as possible. The bowl clamp knob that comes with the VB head is way too long for what I want.

Induro makes two clamp knobs:
3/8"-16 which they describe as "Asia/Italy"
10mm which they describe as "Germany/UK"

I contacted Vinten about which thread they used, and Andrew Butler replied "the thread is M10 twinstart, it is quite an unusual thread so you may have to get it custom cut into whatever knob you want to use."

I asked Brian Hynes from Induro about their 10mm knob, and he said "It was designed for single start thread which is more common but it did work on a Vinten sample when we tried it out."

A bit of research led me to this page, among others. A conversation with a former aircraft engineer guided me to twinstart being also known as double threaded or double start or dual start, and that it was not really compatible with a single start thread- it would likely cross-thread or jam.

So, further research… Kessler makes an "Optional M10 Knob" which they list for "Sachtler, Cartoni, etc." You can see it here:
Optional M10 Knob

I emailed them to ask about it, and TIm Hiatt got back to me:
"We have a dual start M10 knob available that will work with the Vinten Vision Blue tripod heads.
The dual start knob is similar [to the single start M10 knob], however it has 4 prongs on it and it is silver in color so that it can easily be distinguished from the standard 3/8”-16 knob that has 4 prongs and is black and the optional M10 knob that has rounded lobes and a regular metric 10 thread size.
It can be found here: https://www.kesslercrane.com/Product...=dual_strt_m10 "

I couldn't find that product page on their site, but thanks to his direct link, I can see that it says "This knob should be used with tripods that have a double threaded metric 10 stud. Known fluid heads that have double threaded M10 studs: - Vinten Vision Blue -Vineten Vision 100"

I think we might have a winner!

My conversation with the engineer, and the fact that Kessler Crane specifically makes single start and dual start knobs, makes me loathe to trust the Induro 10mm knob on my Vinten shaft.

So, unless anyone can think of a reason not to… I'm planning to purchase a 75mm Induro DR Hi-hat, the Kessler Crane dual start M10 knob, and hope that it will allow me to put it all together with my Vinten Vision Blue head.

I'm in the process of looking for someone local to get the Kessler part in for me, so I can avoid a huge shipping charge. If I go ahead with it, I'll be sure to post my results here.
Oh, and for the price, I'll probably get the 10mm Induro knob anyway, in case I ever need it for a different head in the future, so if anyone else has any different fitment questions, I should be able help out.

November 22nd, 2012, 11:32 AM	#1
Sander Vreuls Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hilversum, The Netherlands Posts: 184	Vinten head on Oconnor tripod I got a Oconnor tripod (25L) about a year ago, to which I mounted a Manfrotto 116 Mk3 since I had no budget for a higher end head. The manfrotto was a bit overkill for my camera's and rigs (homebuilt is about the weight of a HPX370) and not that great of a quality.. Then I found a Vinten Vision 5 system, which is a fair bit lighter in terms of head capacities yet much better in balance and movements.. The Vinten tripod however is metal, and the Oconnor is carbon fibre and much more versatile. The Oconnor tripod has a lower base height but can extend much more (and has a middle spreader). So my thought was to put the Vinten head on the Oconnor but it seems like it's not a perfect fit, the Vinten head has a ring around the top of the bowl that means I can't level it properly.. Does anyone have experience with this and are there any solutions? I know there was a topic about this but I can't seem to be able to find it..

November 22nd, 2012, 02:56 PM	#3
Sander Vreuls Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hilversum, The Netherlands Posts: 184	Re: Vinten head on Oconnor tripod It looks like this (Vinten in light grey head/black bowl, Manfrotto in black head/shiny bowl) http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ottovinten.jpg

November 22nd, 2012, 03:47 PM	#4
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Re: Vinten head on Oconnor tripod Aha................. Two things going on here, which one is the real culprit you'll have to figure out yourself. First off, there isn't an awefull lot of room for manouver with that Vinten ball base, due to it's relatively shallow depth and the flange where it attaches to the head proper, though it wouldn't suprise me if that isn't really what's causing the problem. The second, and most likely, culprit is that massive clamp cup on the clamp knob. None of my Vintens will work with my Manfrotto tripods (yes, even I have a couple of Manfrotto's). They'll mount (just) but there's practically no adjustment because the clamp cup hits the underside of the receiver, giving, at most, a couple of degrees of adjustment. If your tripod has a receiver design akin to a Manfrotto (Sachtler does), that clamp cup is a dead certain game killer. I've yet to find a small clamp cup replacement that has the correct thread size to work on a Vinten clamp bolt and Vinten have, so far, been unwilling to offer a different design clamp bolt that is compatible with all other makes of tripod receiver. I shall raise the subject with them again when next I speak to their brand spanking new Product Manager - Andrew Butler, who took up his post on November 1st. (Actually, I'm suprised Andrew hasn't put his head over the parapet here before now, not that he's probably had any time, not as if being the PM for Vinten couldn't be done by any Joe Blow!) Peter Harman, the previous long term PM, has moved to set up and head a new teaching division within Vinten. Not that it's relevant to your situation, Vinten heads share this clamp cup problem with Libec heads, though the Libecs can be worked around as their clamp bolt is identical to Sachtlers, so will accept the much smaller Sachtler "paddle pop" clamp knob. CS

November 23rd, 2012, 02:05 PM	#5
Sander Vreuls Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hilversum, The Netherlands Posts: 184	Re: Vinten head on Oconnor tripod Thanks for the advice.. real shame as the tripod is pretty good (more versatile than most sachtlers I have worked with!) and the head is quite nice as well.. Ah well.. time to find a Sachtler head or similar then that would fit if there is no other solution such as an adapter :)

December 18th, 2012, 05:10 AM	#6
Andrew Dean Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Motukarara, New Zealand Posts: 475	Re: Vinten head on Oconnor tripod I end up rigging just about every brand of something to every other brand of something, so i keep a lot of random bits and bobs around. One that has come into play time and again was a separate cup and small nut from a kessler cineslider bowl mount. I found the bowl mount to be close to useless on the slider (raised the center of gravity far too high to be stable) but the nut and cup get used over and over for mixing heads and tripods and jibs and highhats. Replacement Knob for High Hat & Pocket Jib Vertical Brake and Replacement Cup Washer They also sell an m10 knob, which should cover the heads with that post http://www.kesslercrane.com/product-p/100152.htm (I THINK the vinten is an m10? Does the manfrotto knob work on the vinten post?) ... and I also have a knob with the stud built in that i use with the kessler cup for heads that have a female thread on the bottom. (sorry, i have no idea where that came from!) I'm certain there are better solutions out there (if this even addresses your issue), but that one little cup and knob has solved SO many gripping problems for me so many times that it was the first thing that came to mind when I read your post. cheers! -Andrew

December 18th, 2012, 07:56 PM	#7
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Re: Vinten head on Oconnor tripod The Vinten clamp bolt/ knob is a very knotty problem, as it's the only combination I know of that uses a double start thread, everybody else's use single start, AFAIK. I have asked Andrew Butler, the new Product Manager at Vinten, if he can maybe source some undrilled/ threaded Manfrotto clamp knobs and get them sorted for the Vinten bolt. He sounded quite keen to tackle the probem, which is encourageing. I never got any traction with Peter on this, no matter how much I nagged him, which I did, incessantly over the years. That would sort this problem once and for all. I shan't hold my breath, however, it's probably 9/ 10ths of the way down a 10,000 point "to do list". CS

December 21st, 2012, 09:15 PM	#8
Andrew Dean Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Motukarara, New Zealand Posts: 475	Re: Vinten head on Oconnor tripod really? the vinten is double threaded? Thats wild. I've used my little nut on at least one vinten, but it was the older rebranded 501. hmm.

December 21st, 2012, 11:11 PM	#9
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Re: Vinten head on Oconnor tripod Yep, 'fraid so. The rebranded Manfrotto's would have retained their single start threads, so not true Vinten. Just to put the clamp cup problem in context, here's a comparison of the three top selling manufacturers clamp cup diameters: Sachtler 51.5mm / 2 1/16" Manfrotto 54.3mm / 2 1/8" Vinten 60mm / 2 3/8" Solving the clamp cup problem isn't the end of the story however, that 3 lobed Vinten knob doesn't even play nice with at least one Vinten tripod as well, those with the Vb series heads. It's bound to give grief with other tripod makes. We'll get there. CS

May 16th, 2013, 11:14 AM	#10
Stephen Strangways Tourist Join Date: May 2013 Location: Hamilton, Ontario Posts: 1	Re: Vinten head on Oconnor tripod I'm looking into purchasing an Induro DR Hi-Hat Tripod, and I want to use my Vinten Vision Blue head with it, and get it as low to the ground as possible. The bowl clamp knob that comes with the VB head is way too long for what I want. Induro makes two clamp knobs: 3/8"-16 which they describe as "Asia/Italy" 10mm which they describe as "Germany/UK" I contacted Vinten about which thread they used, and Andrew Butler replied "the thread is M10 twinstart, it is quite an unusual thread so you may have to get it custom cut into whatever knob you want to use." I asked Brian Hynes from Induro about their 10mm knob, and he said "It was designed for single start thread which is more common but it did work on a Vinten sample when we tried it out." A bit of research led me to this page, among others. A conversation with a former aircraft engineer guided me to twinstart being also known as double threaded or double start or dual start, and that it was not really compatible with a single start thread- it would likely cross-thread or jam. So, further research… Kessler makes an "Optional M10 Knob" which they list for "Sachtler, Cartoni, etc." You can see it here: Optional M10 Knob I emailed them to ask about it, and TIm Hiatt got back to me: "We have a dual start M10 knob available that will work with the Vinten Vision Blue tripod heads. The dual start knob is similar [to the single start M10 knob], however it has 4 prongs on it and it is silver in color so that it can easily be distinguished from the standard 3/8”-16 knob that has 4 prongs and is black and the optional M10 knob that has rounded lobes and a regular metric 10 thread size. It can be found here: https://www.kesslercrane.com/Product...=dual_strt_m10 " I couldn't find that product page on their site, but thanks to his direct link, I can see that it says "This knob should be used with tripods that have a double threaded metric 10 stud. Known fluid heads that have double threaded M10 studs: - Vinten Vision Blue -Vineten Vision 100" I think we might have a winner! My conversation with the engineer, and the fact that Kessler Crane specifically makes single start and dual start knobs, makes me loathe to trust the Induro 10mm knob on my Vinten shaft. So, unless anyone can think of a reason not to… I'm planning to purchase a 75mm Induro DR Hi-hat, the Kessler Crane dual start M10 knob, and hope that it will allow me to put it all together with my Vinten Vision Blue head. I'm in the process of looking for someone local to get the Kessler part in for me, so I can avoid a huge shipping charge. If I go ahead with it, I'll be sure to post my results here. Oh, and for the price, I'll probably get the 10mm Induro knob anyway, in case I ever need it for a different head in the future, so if anyone else has any different fitment questions, I should be able help out.