first real tripod advice at DVinfo.net

Nicholas Oliver · March 9th, 2011, 03:36 PM

so I'll be receiving a letus extreme, rails, shoulder mount, etc. etc. the whole package in a few days. while I do tend to shoot a lot of my stuff on my shoulder, I know that there will be times when I need a tripod. so, for an XHA1 with a letus extreme, rails, lens, possible monitor, what would you recommend for a tripod that is relatively low cost (used price) and that will be of the best use for me?

Nicholas Oliver · March 9th, 2011, 03:39 PM

I should also mention that I have an indislider that I would like to continue using, if that's even possible when the camera because as bulky as it does with a lens adapter, rails, etc. -- so a removable head on the tripod that allows me to attach it to my indislider ( seen here indiSYSTEM - indiSLIDERmini )

Mike Beckett · March 9th, 2011, 03:58 PM

Hey Nicholas,

Welcome to "Soucy's World of Sticks" forum!

What does "relatively low cost" mean to you, in approximate dollars?

Chris Soucy · March 9th, 2011, 05:43 PM

Why Mike, you say the nicest things.

Although I don't think it's quite got to the point where posters have to "Knock three times and ask for Soucy" to get past the 7 foot bouncer at the door, interesting thought that it is.

You've already asked the "money question", so pretty well everything depends on that, tho' I have one or two supplementaries I'd like to slip under the radar.

Having checked the indicated link, the site is maddeningly opaque as to the sliders fixing abilities to tripods.

It say's slide plates, which pretty well always says 1/4" - 20 to me.

But it also says flat top tripod, which for a proper (video) 75 mm or 100 mm set means 3/8" - 16

Only the cheap stills tripods use 1/4" - 20 for their head attachment.

So, does the slider have both or just one or the other?

If it has both and can be used on a tripod without a head of any variety, does the slider have it's own levelling bubble, or will you have to do a spot of DIY?

I'll stay tuned for the next exciting episode.

OK, back on your heads.

CS

Nicholas Oliver · March 9th, 2011, 11:24 PM

here's a larger photo of the exact slider that I have.
http://thediff.files.wordpress.com/2...package_lg.jpg

the inner circle there can be unscrewed (from the knob shooting out of it on the left side) and taken out, that can be screwed to the bottom of your camera and then you put it back into it's hole, with the camera now attached, tighten the knob and that's it. that's WITHOUT a tripod. now if it's possible to take that out, leave it out but then attach a tripod head into it, I'm not entirely sure, because I'm not too knowledgeable on tripods/tripod heads.

Chris Soucy · March 10th, 2011, 12:57 AM

Well, guess it's "get out the camera" time.

I still have no clue, whatsoever, as to how you attach the slider itself to a tripod.

The web site says it can be done, but how?

If you take the doohicky thing off the top of the slider, the one that is supposed to go into the base of a camera, can you find a mating hole in the slider base to take that bolt?

Is there another (threaded hole) that is way too big for that bolt?

Does the slider have a levelling bubble?

As Mike asked "what do you call relatively low cost"?

We don't bite (often), but facts sure as heck beat chasing our tails, no matter how little you know.

Nicholas, work on the basis that every sentence here (on DVinfo) ending with a question mark MUST be answered, else we're going nowhere fast.

And don't answer the question you THINK was asked, answer the one ACTUALLY asked (they're very often quite different beasts), and we'll get on famously.

Back to you.

CS

Nicholas Oliver · March 10th, 2011, 01:51 AM

my apologies.

I'm also unsure how a tripod head can be attached to the top of the slider itself, as, like I said, I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to tripods and heads. apparently it can be done though. I'll go through some youtube tutorial videos for the indislider and find out there. also, just to clarify, I want to put the tripod on TOP of the slider, where the pistol grip is in that first photo. that is where you apparently can attach a tripod head. the base (bottom) of the slider you can attach easily to a tripod, that's not my issue. it's attaching a head to the black slider on top itself.

the slider does not have a leveling bubble.

I could spend $200 on a tripod. hopefully that's not too little.

Chris Soucy · March 10th, 2011, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholas Oliver

, I want to put the tripod on TOP of the slider,

Nicholas, there is no way in hell you can attach a tripod to the top of the slider, a head, maybe, tripod, definately not.

Tutorial:

This is a stills tripod......

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/708917-REG/Velbon_GEO_E530_3_SEC_CF_TRIPOD_LEGS_GROUNDR_LIFT_25mm.html
Notice the flat top to that centre column.

This is a stills head:

Manfrotto Hydrostatic Ball Head with RC5 Rapid Connect System - Ball

notice the flat base to that head.

This is a video tripod:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/188651-REG/Cartoni_A302_A302_Ultra_Light_Aluminum_Tripod.html
Note, it has a quite pronounced bowl into which an appropriately sized ball head will fit.

Here is a video head:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/206505-REG/Gitzo_G1380_G1380_Video_Fluid_Head.html
Note, it has quite a pronounced ball at the base to allow easy levelling despite the orientation of the bowl/ legs on the tripod.

So, two components, quite different, with totally different names:

1. Heads

and

2. Tripod/ sticks.

So, coming back to what was originally asked:

Quote:

so I'll be receiving a letus extreme, rails, shoulder mount, etc. etc. the whole package in a few days. while I do tend to shoot a lot of my stuff on my shoulder, I know that there will be times when I need a tripod. so, for an XHA1 with a letus extreme, rails, lens, possible monitor, what would you recommend for a tripod that is relatively low cost (used price) and that will be of the best use for me?

$200? For that lot?

When the assembled have finished ROFLH, a question.

What did that lot above cost you?

And you want a camera support system for $200?

Over to you, Mike.

Think I need to go write a review or 5.

Sigh.

CS

Mike Beckett · March 10th, 2011, 05:15 AM

Cripes... $200 isn't much!

I have a Glidetrack SD 0.75m (3 feet-ish), and have used it with varying degrees of success on different tripods.

It works perfectly on my Vinten Vision Blue; I use the Manfrotto Half-ball adapter on the Vinten legs and it's solid as a rock from one end of the slide to the other.

Screwing the same slider on my cheaper Manfrotto legs results in a contraption that leaves me unable to sleep at night. Slide the camera more than a 6 inches from the centre point and it starts to lean and tip over.

But anyway - that doesn't seem to be what you want to do. I am puzzled why you want to mount the tripod on the slider. You're only going to get at best two of the legs into it... unless you get three sliders... unless I am missing something.

The photo shows just a tripod head on top of the slider; that makes a lot more sense. You can usually get away with cheaper heads on a slider - I use a 501HDV head, I don't do any telephoto work on it on the slider, I just need to lock off the camera and maybe do a subtle pan/tilt.

So I am assuming you mean:
- Tripod legs with slider mounted on them
- Tripod head on top of the slider

For a budget, you might just get a second hand Manfrotto 503HDV or 501HDV head in your price range. I wouldn't put that nice Canon cam and all that gear on anything less than that, and ideally I would want something with more "grunt" to it.

So if you can get a used 503HDV tripod with 525 legs (or equivalent), it would be what I consider to be the absolute minimum for your setup, and even then I wouldn't walk away too far from the camera setup just in case it falls over!

I was thinking of Libec as an alternative - maybe a Libec LS-38 (second hand) - but I'm not sure if you can separate the head from the ball and use it in a slider setup.

A lot of these slider sites (I am thinking of Glidetrack) show the whole setup using a Velbon tripod (£70 in the UK). That mught just (stress 'just') be OK for a non-pimped DSLR with a tiny lens, but not for a full size video camera all tricked out.

Sorry Nicholas if we can't be more help, but we are trying. Chris hasn't used the word "bloody" yet either"! Maybe someone else will have ideas?

("Soucy's World of Sticks" does sound like it should have one of those wonderful "shouty warehouse guy" TV ads, doesn't it? And everything must go by midnight tonight!)

Paul R Johnson · March 10th, 2011, 05:39 AM

That's an awful lot of weight, an awful lot of weight fairly high above the mounting point, and an awful lot of momentum once that lot gets going.

I think your biggest problem is that once you tilt down or up from horizontal, you're going to be hanging on for dear life to stop the thing crunching down forwards or backwards!

You might even find the brake can't be tightened enough to hold it - unless you get a head capable of this.

Why not tote up the weight of all this, and then look at much bigger cameras of around the same weight. Then go to the vinten web site and enter the weight of the comparable camera into their calculator and see which ones they come up with. Then have a heart attack when you see the kind of price they are suggesting!

Second hand, ebay could be your friend. BIG heads with capable counterbalance are often on there from the usual pro brands.

As for sticks - you need something again that can take the weight without the brakes slipping. The usual warnings about tripod and heads about twisting are even more important with a big top load. The kit on the top is expensive, and fragile - perching this lot on $200 of support sounds a bit scary to me.

I've bought some amazingly sturdy old stuff on ebay - and the only disadvantage is weight. If you want strong and don't worry about weight, 2nd had for $200 will work. If you want strong and light - your budget is sadly lacking.
.

Nicholas Oliver · March 10th, 2011, 11:34 PM

I suppose I should just end this thread here. My naivety on the subject seems to be getting on your guys' nerves. Thanks for the info you've given me, but I think I'll continue to look for advice on this matter elsewhere.

Chris Soucy · March 11th, 2011, 02:04 AM

Feel free to search elsewhere, there's a dozen other portals out there only too willing to provide 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th rate advice on camera support systems, and all of them have a serious axe to grind in the process.

There is a reason DVinfo has the BEST camera support information forum on the entire planet, bar none, and that is you won't get anything but the best camera support information it is possible to get, no axes to grind, no money to be made, just plain simple down to earth "this is what it takes" information.

People like Mike and many others, too numerous to mention, take an extremely active interest here, and give up their spare time to offer advice, based on serious usage qualifications, which, all too often, falls on the deaf ears of those unschooled in the realism of the craft under discussion. That, I can assure you, is one hell of a thankless task.

Finally, if you don't like the message, don't shoot the messager, it's exceedingly uncool.

As for "nerves", I don't think anyone who's posted in this thread (bar yourself) has any left, so "getting on them" would be a mission.

Live long and prosper.

CS

Mike Beckett · March 11th, 2011, 02:52 AM

Nicholas,

We're just trying to help.

I simply can't recommend a $200 tripod that would reliably hold all the gear you are planning to use. I just about trust a $200 Velbon to hold my stills camera.

My qualifications in this area are just down the sheer amount of money I have wasted buying a whole series of tripods from $200 to $2500, each time blindy assuming I was making a great choice by spending $200 more than last time that it would be the best tripod ever.

I only ever arrived at a truly good tripod when I decided:
- What is the lowest priced true, professional fluid head and legs combination that I can afford?

In my case, it was the Sachtler DV6-SB with CF speedlock legs.

Now, several years on, I sold the Sachtler and got a Vinten Vision Blue - half the price, and twice the performance; it just wasn't available way back then.

People all too often buy a $5000+ camera, rails, mattebox, 35mm adapters, monitors, all sorts of gear that easily tops $10,000 - then stick it all on a $200 tripod that can't even properly support the weight, let alone operate smoothly enough to reflect the quality of all the other gear they have.

A $200 tripod is where you stick your $500 palmcorder, no more, no less.

March 9th, 2011, 03:36 PM	#1
Nicholas Oliver Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 100	first real tripod advice so I'll be receiving a letus extreme, rails, shoulder mount, etc. etc. the whole package in a few days. while I do tend to shoot a lot of my stuff on my shoulder, I know that there will be times when I need a tripod. so, for an XHA1 with a letus extreme, rails, lens, possible monitor, what would you recommend for a tripod that is relatively low cost (used price) and that will be of the best use for me?

March 9th, 2011, 03:39 PM	#2
Nicholas Oliver Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 100	Re: first real tripod advice I should also mention that I have an indislider that I would like to continue using, if that's even possible when the camera because as bulky as it does with a lens adapter, rails, etc. -- so a removable head on the tripod that allows me to attach it to my indislider ( seen here indiSYSTEM - indiSLIDERmini )

March 9th, 2011, 03:58 PM	#3
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Re: first real tripod advice Hey Nicholas, Welcome to "Soucy's World of Sticks" forum! What does "relatively low cost" mean to you, in approximate dollars?

March 9th, 2011, 05:43 PM	#4
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,689 Images: 18	Re: first real tripod advice Why Mike, you say the nicest things. Although I don't think it's quite got to the point where posters have to "Knock three times and ask for Soucy" to get past the 7 foot bouncer at the door, interesting thought that it is. You've already asked the "money question", so pretty well everything depends on that, tho' I have one or two supplementaries I'd like to slip under the radar. Having checked the indicated link, the site is maddeningly opaque as to the sliders fixing abilities to tripods. It say's slide plates, which pretty well always says 1/4" - 20 to me. But it also says flat top tripod, which for a proper (video) 75 mm or 100 mm set means 3/8" - 16 Only the cheap stills tripods use 1/4" - 20 for their head attachment. So, does the slider have both or just one or the other? If it has both and can be used on a tripod without a head of any variety, does the slider have it's own levelling bubble, or will you have to do a spot of DIY? I'll stay tuned for the next exciting episode. OK, back on your heads. CS

March 9th, 2011, 11:24 PM	#5
Nicholas Oliver Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 100	Re: first real tripod advice here's a larger photo of the exact slider that I have. http://thediff.files.wordpress.com/2...package_lg.jpg the inner circle there can be unscrewed (from the knob shooting out of it on the left side) and taken out, that can be screwed to the bottom of your camera and then you put it back into it's hole, with the camera now attached, tighten the knob and that's it. that's WITHOUT a tripod. now if it's possible to take that out, leave it out but then attach a tripod head into it, I'm not entirely sure, because I'm not too knowledgeable on tripods/tripod heads.

March 10th, 2011, 12:57 AM	#6
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,689 Images: 18	Re: first real tripod advice Well, guess it's "get out the camera" time. I still have no clue, whatsoever, as to how you attach the slider itself to a tripod. The web site says it can be done, but how? If you take the doohicky thing off the top of the slider, the one that is supposed to go into the base of a camera, can you find a mating hole in the slider base to take that bolt? Is there another (threaded hole) that is way too big for that bolt? Does the slider have a levelling bubble? As Mike asked "what do you call relatively low cost"? We don't bite (often), but facts sure as heck beat chasing our tails, no matter how little you know. Nicholas, work on the basis that every sentence here (on DVinfo) ending with a question mark MUST be answered, else we're going nowhere fast. And don't answer the question you THINK was asked, answer the one ACTUALLY asked (they're very often quite different beasts), and we'll get on famously. Back to you. CS

March 10th, 2011, 01:51 AM	#7
Nicholas Oliver Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 100	Re: first real tripod advice my apologies. I'm also unsure how a tripod head can be attached to the top of the slider itself, as, like I said, I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to tripods and heads. apparently it can be done though. I'll go through some youtube tutorial videos for the indislider and find out there. also, just to clarify, I want to put the tripod on TOP of the slider, where the pistol grip is in that first photo. that is where you apparently can attach a tripod head. the base (bottom) of the slider you can attach easily to a tripod, that's not my issue. it's attaching a head to the black slider on top itself. the slider does not have a leveling bubble. I could spend $200 on a tripod. hopefully that's not too little.

March 10th, 2011, 05:15 AM	#9
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Re: first real tripod advice Cripes... $200 isn't much! I have a Glidetrack SD 0.75m (3 feet-ish), and have used it with varying degrees of success on different tripods. It works perfectly on my Vinten Vision Blue; I use the Manfrotto Half-ball adapter on the Vinten legs and it's solid as a rock from one end of the slide to the other. Screwing the same slider on my cheaper Manfrotto legs results in a contraption that leaves me unable to sleep at night. Slide the camera more than a 6 inches from the centre point and it starts to lean and tip over. But anyway - that doesn't seem to be what you want to do. I am puzzled why you want to mount the tripod on the slider. You're only going to get at best two of the legs into it... unless you get three sliders... unless I am missing something. The photo shows just a tripod head on top of the slider; that makes a lot more sense. You can usually get away with cheaper heads on a slider - I use a 501HDV head, I don't do any telephoto work on it on the slider, I just need to lock off the camera and maybe do a subtle pan/tilt. So I am assuming you mean: - Tripod legs with slider mounted on them - Tripod head on top of the slider For a budget, you might just get a second hand Manfrotto 503HDV or 501HDV head in your price range. I wouldn't put that nice Canon cam and all that gear on anything less than that, and ideally I would want something with more "grunt" to it. So if you can get a used 503HDV tripod with 525 legs (or equivalent), it would be what I consider to be the absolute minimum for your setup, and even then I wouldn't walk away too far from the camera setup just in case it falls over! I was thinking of Libec as an alternative - maybe a Libec LS-38 (second hand) - but I'm not sure if you can separate the head from the ball and use it in a slider setup. A lot of these slider sites (I am thinking of Glidetrack) show the whole setup using a Velbon tripod (£70 in the UK). That mught just (stress 'just') be OK for a non-pimped DSLR with a tiny lens, but not for a full size video camera all tricked out. Sorry Nicholas if we can't be more help, but we are trying. Chris hasn't used the word "bloody" yet either"! Maybe someone else will have ideas? ("Soucy's World of Sticks" does sound like it should have one of those wonderful "shouty warehouse guy" TV ads, doesn't it? And everything must go by midnight tonight!)

March 10th, 2011, 05:39 AM	#10
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,044	Re: first real tripod advice That's an awful lot of weight, an awful lot of weight fairly high above the mounting point, and an awful lot of momentum once that lot gets going. I think your biggest problem is that once you tilt down or up from horizontal, you're going to be hanging on for dear life to stop the thing crunching down forwards or backwards! You might even find the brake can't be tightened enough to hold it - unless you get a head capable of this. Why not tote up the weight of all this, and then look at much bigger cameras of around the same weight. Then go to the vinten web site and enter the weight of the comparable camera into their calculator and see which ones they come up with. Then have a heart attack when you see the kind of price they are suggesting! Second hand, ebay could be your friend. BIG heads with capable counterbalance are often on there from the usual pro brands. As for sticks - you need something again that can take the weight without the brakes slipping. The usual warnings about tripod and heads about twisting are even more important with a big top load. The kit on the top is expensive, and fragile - perching this lot on $200 of support sounds a bit scary to me. I've bought some amazingly sturdy old stuff on ebay - and the only disadvantage is weight. If you want strong and don't worry about weight, 2nd had for $200 will work. If you want strong and light - your budget is sadly lacking. .

March 10th, 2011, 11:34 PM	#11
Nicholas Oliver Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 100	Re: first real tripod advice I suppose I should just end this thread here. My naivety on the subject seems to be getting on your guys' nerves. Thanks for the info you've given me, but I think I'll continue to look for advice on this matter elsewhere.

March 11th, 2011, 02:04 AM	#12
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,689 Images: 18	Hi, Nicholas................. Feel free to search elsewhere, there's a dozen other portals out there only too willing to provide 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th rate advice on camera support systems, and all of them have a serious axe to grind in the process. There is a reason DVinfo has the BEST camera support information forum on the entire planet, bar none, and that is you won't get anything but the best camera support information it is possible to get, no axes to grind, no money to be made, just plain simple down to earth "this is what it takes" information. People like Mike and many others, too numerous to mention, take an extremely active interest here, and give up their spare time to offer advice, based on serious usage qualifications, which, all too often, falls on the deaf ears of those unschooled in the realism of the craft under discussion. That, I can assure you, is one hell of a thankless task. Finally, if you don't like the message, don't shoot the messager, it's exceedingly uncool. As for "nerves", I don't think anyone who's posted in this thread (bar yourself) has any left, so "getting on them" would be a mission. Live long and prosper. CS

March 11th, 2011, 02:52 AM	#13
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Re: first real tripod advice Nicholas, We're just trying to help. I simply can't recommend a $200 tripod that would reliably hold all the gear you are planning to use. I just about trust a $200 Velbon to hold my stills camera. My qualifications in this area are just down the sheer amount of money I have wasted buying a whole series of tripods from $200 to $2500, each time blindy assuming I was making a great choice by spending $200 more than last time that it would be the best tripod ever. I only ever arrived at a truly good tripod when I decided: - What is the lowest priced true, professional fluid head and legs combination that I can afford? In my case, it was the Sachtler DV6-SB with CF speedlock legs. Now, several years on, I sold the Sachtler and got a Vinten Vision Blue - half the price, and twice the performance; it just wasn't available way back then. People all too often buy a $5000+ camera, rails, mattebox, 35mm adapters, monitors, all sorts of gear that easily tops $10,000 - then stick it all on a $200 tripod that can't even properly support the weight, let alone operate smoothly enough to reflect the quality of all the other gear they have. A $200 tripod is where you stick your $500 palmcorder, no more, no less.