Sachtler Cine DSLR at DVinfo.net

Joe Thompson · January 23rd, 2011, 03:13 PM

Hi guys,

This a specific question focused at all those who surfed the wave towards lightweight DSLR's such as 5D MK II, 7D, AG-AF101, & GH2.

What is the ideal tripod support system for a payload range of 2 to 11 lbs, which all these cameras fall into.

The Vinten Vision Blue has made huge progress in the market, but it doesn't quiet suit a naked DSLR setup?

Would anyone like to share thoughts on the Sachler Cine DSLR?

If Vinten's Vision Blue is as revolutionary as bloggers are saying it is, then the sensible 'future proof' option may be a DSLR rig, from Zacuto or Cinevate, which would help meet the minimum weight requirements of the Vision Blue.

Brian Luce · January 23rd, 2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Thompson

If Vinten's Vision Blue is as revolutionary as bloggers are saying it is, then the sensible 'future proof' option may be a DSLR rig, from Zacuto or Cinevate, which would help meet the minimum weight requirements of the Vision Blue.

Is that what they're saying? That it's "Revolutionary"? What so revolutionary about it? Tripods and heads is still pretty much old school technology isn't it?

Scott Bellefeuille · January 24th, 2011, 09:33 AM

From what I've read the performance of the Vision Blue isn't revolutionary (although excellent none-the-less) but it's price to performance ratio is revolutionary, i.e. first head to offer this level of performance at this price point.

For future proofing I ended up going with a Satchler FSB-8. A bit more expensive then the Blue but will cover a range from 2-20 lbs which handles my current bare DSLR set up and just about any camera I can myself owning/renting in the foreseeable future.

Robert Turchick · January 24th, 2011, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Bellefeuille

From what I've read the performance of the Vision Blue isn't revolutionary (although excellent none-the-less) but it's price to performance ratio is revolutionary, i.e. first head to offer this level of performance at this price point.

For future proofing I ended up going with a Satchler FSB-8. A bit more expensive then the Blue but will cover a range from 2-20 lbs which handles my current bare DSLR set up and just about any camera I can myself owning/renting in the foreseeable future.

I ended up with the FSB-6T which works perfectly with my 7D/battery grip and my XF300. Sweetest tripod I've ever used!

Mike Beckett · January 24th, 2011, 01:29 PM

The VB is not revolutionary mechanically. It is the same tripod head as the old Vision 6, which has been around for years.

What has not been around for years is a way of bringing that performance to a much lower payload at a much lower price. They took the Vision 6, re-sprayed it, re-sprung it, and solid it as a complete tripod kit with a set of Poziloc legs for a price not much more than the legs on their own.

So from my perspective mechanically it is not revolutionary, but financially it is.

Before this, there was nothing for this smaller cameras with perfect balance, whip pan and LF drag (without bolting 8 lbs of lead to the bottom of your camera).

The only thing I think they missed was making the load capactiy 0-5kg instead of 2-5kg.

Joe Thompson · January 28th, 2011, 06:04 PM

Who is the heavyweight champion of the DSLR tripod world?. In the blue corner, we have a Vinten's Vision Blue. In the red corner, we have a Sachtler DSLR Cine.

The Vision Blue retails for $1,127.50 (€820) at B&H today. In comparison, the Sachtler Cine DSLR is priced at $1,229.95 (€900). A difference of $100 (€80), however factoring in the peripherals needed to bring the DSLR payload weight up on the Vision Blue, I assume I'm correct in saying that the Sachtler is the 'best' cheapest option available for DSLR users .... round one to the Sachtler if so.

Then there's the small question of weight. The maximum payload weight would appear to be capped at 11 lbs (5kg) on both models above (correct me if I'm wrong). On the contrary, a Sachtler FSB 6 would stretch the payload up if needed (2.2 lbs to 13.2lbs), costing an additional $479 (€350) on top of the Sachtler Cine price. Also, the FSB 8 stretches the payload weight even further (upto 20lbs), at almost double the cost of models in discussion. With the same maximum limit, & the ability to function with a "naked DSLR", can we call it round two to Sachtler's also?.

The Sachtler Cine is a new design for Digital SLR cameras I'm told, with 10 step counter balance, & three vertical and horizontal grades of drag (+0), which also come with a special camera plate & an anti-twist retainer for HD DSLR cameras. Is this any sort of knock - out punch on Vision Blue, or can I assume that both models are on a par, both performance & functional wise?.

Can someone please also confirm if 577 receiver/plate can be used on both models, & any additional adaptors that may be needed to mount sliders. Thanks for thoughts.

Scott Bellefeuille · January 28th, 2011, 07:21 PM

Joe- I just went through this process and evaluated the Vinten Blue, Sachtler Cine and Sachtler FSB range. I ended up going with the Sachtler FSB-8 because it seemed the most versatile in being able to handle a bare DLSR all the way up to a 20lb camera or rig. For the kind of stuff I do I can't see myself ever owning a camera set up over 20lbs so I think I've got a tripod head to last me for the next 10 years.

The FSB-8 just arrived yesterday so I haven't had time for much testing but it handles a bare 5DMkII with Zeiss ZE 35 f/2 (about 2.8lbs total) with no problems. But I would say that is on the edge of the low end. A bare GH2 wouldn't fare as well.

And yes I can confirm that the 577 plate fits fine on the FSB and even works nicely with the sideload mechanism. But because of the safety stops on the head the 577 plate can either slide back or slide forward depending on where you place it on the head. It won't slide through the full range of the head. But I also have a Gitzo plate that is identical to the 577 except the underside has different safety stops (2 sided instead of 1 sided if that makes sense.) The gitzo plate sits perfect on the Sachtler and slides through the full range of the head so I'm going to pick up a couple of those.

Joe Thompson · February 3rd, 2011, 04:31 PM

From my own research, & from comments & feedback gained through the good people of DVinfo I think I understand now, the important of a good tripod system, and the bang you get for your buck, HOWEVER, regarding the industry specific to me, I am still confused as to why top pro's in the wedding event industry, many of whom are clocking up international air miles to capture events for clients, still use manfrotto heads, such as 501, 504, when these new rigs for dslr's are out there, and seem far superior in their engineering. Is there something obvious I'm missing.

I can only assume that tripods to these guys, are functioning for static shots, while they run around with their monopods & sliders. I'm asking the hard question, do I really need to to spend this money, on a Sachtler? Wedding Event guys out there, do you find that your main tripod, contributed to the production value of your video, or should I be advised to downgrade on tripod system, turn a blind eye to pans/tilts & concentrate on capturing the story.

Funny this, really thought a tripod would be one of the quickest, easiest, and cheapest items to buy, yet I'm at a game of tug-a-war with quality inside my head :-)

Scott Bellefeuille · February 3rd, 2011, 04:46 PM

Joe, I'm not a wedding photographer and I couldn't tell you why top wedding guys are going for the 501 or 504. What I can tell you is that I am kicking myself for not buying a Sachtler head sooner. Once you try a true, quality, fluid head you understand the difference and what all the fuss is about. For me the biggest selling point is that it does exactly what you stated in your post: it let's me turn a blind eye to pans and tilts and concentrate on telling the story. I don't have to worry about a camera move being crappy because of the head. That's where the true value lies. Good luck with your quest!

Brian Luce · February 3rd, 2011, 11:28 PM

I don't do weddings either but I would have thought, being that they shoot sometimes for 8 hours+, they'd want something really good, because as a person fatigues, motor skills diminish, and a good head is more forgiving.
Some wedding guys I've seen use really lousy gear. Some around here still shoot in SD on mini DV, and they get paid well. Maybe they think the 501 is actually big time.

Mike Beckett · February 4th, 2011, 03:57 AM

Agreed with Scott.

With my Manfrotto 501HDV (which I still occasionally sue when I need to be portable), I have to work hard on the tripod to get smooth results. I _know_ the tripod is there, I can never forget it. I have to hug it tight with both hands and pray to the deities to get a smooth pan, and smooth tilts need 5 takes, at least to someone as ham-fisted as me.

Same setup on my Vinten Vision Blue (and the Sachtler before it), and I can almost forget about the tripod is there - I don't need to fight it, I don't need to use tricks, elastic bands or anything.

It seems odd, but the better the tripod, the less aware of it you should be.

Brian Luce · February 4th, 2011, 02:29 PM

In fairness to Manfrotto, it sounds like the 504 is decent, much better than the 501, 503, 701's. I checked it out in Samy's and it seemed better than it's three ugly siblings.

Chris Soucy · February 4th, 2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Beckett

"my Manfrotto 501HDV (which I still occasionally sue .....)"

Think that pretty well say's everything anyone needs to know on the subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

"it sounds like the 504 is decent"

Not if you listen to the pan bearings, it isn't.

Review coming soon!

CS

Mike Beckett · February 5th, 2011, 02:02 AM

Freudian slip, methinks! (Honestly, I'm not just a crap typist...)

And from any serious accounts, it does sound like the 504HDV is better....

...better than the 501 HDV or 503HDV.

Which, er, doesn't seem to be saying much.

January 23rd, 2011, 03:13 PM	#1
Joe Thompson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ireland Posts: 70	Sachtler Cine DSLR Hi guys, This a specific question focused at all those who surfed the wave towards lightweight DSLR's such as 5D MK II, 7D, AG-AF101, & GH2. What is the ideal tripod support system for a payload range of 2 to 11 lbs, which all these cameras fall into. The Vinten Vision Blue has made huge progress in the market, but it doesn't quiet suit a naked DSLR setup? Would anyone like to share thoughts on the Sachler Cine DSLR? If Vinten's Vision Blue is as revolutionary as bloggers are saying it is, then the sensible 'future proof' option may be a DSLR rig, from Zacuto or Cinevate, which would help meet the minimum weight requirements of the Vision Blue.

January 28th, 2011, 06:04 PM	#6
Joe Thompson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ireland Posts: 70	DSLR Tripod Fight Off Who is the heavyweight champion of the DSLR tripod world?. In the blue corner, we have a Vinten's Vision Blue. In the red corner, we have a Sachtler DSLR Cine. The Vision Blue retails for $1,127.50 (€820) at B&H today. In comparison, the Sachtler Cine DSLR is priced at $1,229.95 (€900). A difference of $100 (€80), however factoring in the peripherals needed to bring the DSLR payload weight up on the Vision Blue, I assume I'm correct in saying that the Sachtler is the 'best' cheapest option available for DSLR users .... round one to the Sachtler if so. Then there's the small question of weight. The maximum payload weight would appear to be capped at 11 lbs (5kg) on both models above (correct me if I'm wrong). On the contrary, a Sachtler FSB 6 would stretch the payload up if needed (2.2 lbs to 13.2lbs), costing an additional $479 (€350) on top of the Sachtler Cine price. Also, the FSB 8 stretches the payload weight even further (upto 20lbs), at almost double the cost of models in discussion. With the same maximum limit, & the ability to function with a "naked DSLR", can we call it round two to Sachtler's also?. The Sachtler Cine is a new design for Digital SLR cameras I'm told, with 10 step counter balance, & three vertical and horizontal grades of drag (+0), which also come with a special camera plate & an anti-twist retainer for HD DSLR cameras. Is this any sort of knock - out punch on Vision Blue, or can I assume that both models are on a par, both performance & functional wise?. Can someone please also confirm if 577 receiver/plate can be used on both models, & any additional adaptors that may be needed to mount sliders. Thanks for thoughts.

February 3rd, 2011, 04:31 PM	#8
Joe Thompson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ireland Posts: 70	Thanks Scott From my own research, & from comments & feedback gained through the good people of DVinfo I think I understand now, the important of a good tripod system, and the bang you get for your buck, HOWEVER, regarding the industry specific to me, I am still confused as to why top pro's in the wedding event industry, many of whom are clocking up international air miles to capture events for clients, still use manfrotto heads, such as 501, 504, when these new rigs for dslr's are out there, and seem far superior in their engineering. Is there something obvious I'm missing. I can only assume that tripods to these guys, are functioning for static shots, while they run around with their monopods & sliders. I'm asking the hard question, do I really need to to spend this money, on a Sachtler? Wedding Event guys out there, do you find that your main tripod, contributed to the production value of your video, or should I be advised to downgrade on tripod system, turn a blind eye to pans/tilts & concentrate on capturing the story. Funny this, really thought a tripod would be one of the quickest, easiest, and cheapest items to buy, yet I'm at a game of tug-a-war with quality inside my head :-)

January 24th, 2011, 09:33 AM	#3
Scott Bellefeuille Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Prague, CZ and Phoenix, AZ Posts: 79	From what I've read the performance of the Vision Blue isn't revolutionary (although excellent none-the-less) but it's price to performance ratio is revolutionary, i.e. first head to offer this level of performance at this price point. For future proofing I ended up going with a Satchler FSB-8. A bit more expensive then the Blue but will cover a range from 2-20 lbs which handles my current bare DSLR set up and just about any camera I can myself owning/renting in the foreseeable future.

January 24th, 2011, 01:29 PM	#5
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	The VB is not revolutionary mechanically. It is the same tripod head as the old Vision 6, which has been around for years. What has not been around for years is a way of bringing that performance to a much lower payload at a much lower price. They took the Vision 6, re-sprayed it, re-sprung it, and solid it as a complete tripod kit with a set of Poziloc legs for a price not much more than the legs on their own. So from my perspective mechanically it is not revolutionary, but financially it is. Before this, there was nothing for this smaller cameras with perfect balance, whip pan and LF drag (without bolting 8 lbs of lead to the bottom of your camera). The only thing I think they missed was making the load capactiy 0-5kg instead of 2-5kg.

January 28th, 2011, 07:21 PM	#7
Scott Bellefeuille Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Prague, CZ and Phoenix, AZ Posts: 79	Joe- I just went through this process and evaluated the Vinten Blue, Sachtler Cine and Sachtler FSB range. I ended up going with the Sachtler FSB-8 because it seemed the most versatile in being able to handle a bare DLSR all the way up to a 20lb camera or rig. For the kind of stuff I do I can't see myself ever owning a camera set up over 20lbs so I think I've got a tripod head to last me for the next 10 years. The FSB-8 just arrived yesterday so I haven't had time for much testing but it handles a bare 5DMkII with Zeiss ZE 35 f/2 (about 2.8lbs total) with no problems. But I would say that is on the edge of the low end. A bare GH2 wouldn't fare as well. And yes I can confirm that the 577 plate fits fine on the FSB and even works nicely with the sideload mechanism. But because of the safety stops on the head the 577 plate can either slide back or slide forward depending on where you place it on the head. It won't slide through the full range of the head. But I also have a Gitzo plate that is identical to the 577 except the underside has different safety stops (2 sided instead of 1 sided if that makes sense.) The gitzo plate sits perfect on the Sachtler and slides through the full range of the head so I'm going to pick up a couple of those.

February 3rd, 2011, 04:46 PM	#9
Scott Bellefeuille Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Prague, CZ and Phoenix, AZ Posts: 79	Joe, I'm not a wedding photographer and I couldn't tell you why top wedding guys are going for the 501 or 504. What I can tell you is that I am kicking myself for not buying a Sachtler head sooner. Once you try a true, quality, fluid head you understand the difference and what all the fuss is about. For me the biggest selling point is that it does exactly what you stated in your post: it let's me turn a blind eye to pans and tilts and concentrate on telling the story. I don't have to worry about a camera move being crappy because of the head. That's where the true value lies. Good luck with your quest!

February 3rd, 2011, 11:28 PM	#10
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	I don't do weddings either but I would have thought, being that they shoot sometimes for 8 hours+, they'd want something really good, because as a person fatigues, motor skills diminish, and a good head is more forgiving. Some wedding guys I've seen use really lousy gear. Some around here still shoot in SD on mini DV, and they get paid well. Maybe they think the 501 is actually big time.

February 4th, 2011, 03:57 AM	#11
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Agreed with Scott. With my Manfrotto 501HDV (which I still occasionally sue when I need to be portable), I have to work hard on the tripod to get smooth results. I _know_ the tripod is there, I can never forget it. I have to hug it tight with both hands and pray to the deities to get a smooth pan, and smooth tilts need 5 takes, at least to someone as ham-fisted as me. Same setup on my Vinten Vision Blue (and the Sachtler before it), and I can almost forget about the tripod is there - I don't need to fight it, I don't need to use tricks, elastic bands or anything. It seems odd, but the better the tripod, the less aware of it you should be.

February 4th, 2011, 02:29 PM	#12
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	In fairness to Manfrotto, it sounds like the 504 is decent, much better than the 501, 503, 701's. I checked it out in Samy's and it seemed better than it's three ugly siblings.

February 5th, 2011, 02:02 AM	#14
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Freudian slip, methinks! (Honestly, I'm not just a crap typist...) And from any serious accounts, it does sound like the 504HDV is better.... ...better than the 501 HDV or 503HDV. Which, er, doesn't seem to be saying much.