Removing the bowl from the head ? at DVinfo.net

Mat Thompson · November 10th, 2009, 03:33 PM

Hi guys
Just looking for a bit of advice removing the bowl from the head...I'm assuming this can be done ? - Theres seems no obvious way of doing this?

Its a Vision 3 head / 75mm bowl.

Many thanks
Mat

Don Bloom · November 10th, 2009, 03:35 PM

IIRC under the head there are some set screws that lock the head to the bowl. Pull the bowl off the legs turn it over and the screws should be seen. A Small headed screwdriver, a couple of turns (don't take the screws out they're a bear to replace) twist the head off.

Chris Soucy · November 10th, 2009, 04:05 PM

Can you clarify the question please?

Are you asking whether the hemispherical steel BALL attached to the underside of the head can be removed

OR

are you asking whether the hemispherical BOWL attached to the tripod legs can be removed?

If it's the former (why on earth would you want to?) the answer is no. Well, actually, you can, but will be left with what amounts to a useless pile of junk. There is no hidden 3/8 threaded socket to fit the head to a flat base tripod and the ball is an integral part of the pan mechanism.

If it's the latter (why on earth..........) the answer is yes, but you will still end up with the useless pile of junk scenario.

CS

Mat Thompson · November 10th, 2009, 04:15 PM

Hi guys

Yes I was refering the the ball not the bowl. Sorry about the confusion. And yes I wondered whether that part fitted to a flat base with some sort of fixation point that could be conected to dolly slider !?

Attached is an image of the bottom of the head.

Chris I take it from your answer this is a NO theres nothing under there to connect too and that that equally the head couldn't be used on something like an indislider without extra pieces!?

Chris Soucy · November 10th, 2009, 04:56 PM

Can't be done, sorry.

As I said, the ball is an integral part of the pan & drag system and it's removal basically knackers the entire thing.

If you go to the Vinten site and register yourself an account (as a Vinten owner), it gives you access to the Vinten Download maintenance manual library. A quick squizz at the Vision 3 manual is all it will take to confirm the above.

For an IndieSlider I'd suggest a cheap Manfrotto flat bottomed head OR........................

tripods, heads, monopods, light stands, camera supports, lighting supports, professional tripod 325N - ADATTATORE PER SFERA

maybe one of these perhaps?

Should do the job nicely.

CS

Peter Damo · November 10th, 2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat Thompson

Hi guys

Yes I was refering the the ball not the bowl. Sorry about the confusion. And yes I wondered whether that part fitted to a flat base with some sort of fixation point that could be conected to dolly slider !?

I think this is exactly the scenario I wanted to resolve some months ago (Dolly, Slider section of forum). I ended up using a 190C head just for bare sliding purposes without panning option at the same time since the head is meant for stills work. Not very satisfactory for my needs. So I hope you can do better. Keep us informed. Sorry I can't offer any more help. Good luck.

Chris Soucy · November 10th, 2009, 05:55 PM

Subsquent to my post, (#5) I had a serious case of deja vu and realised I'd been here before and fallen into the same trap, yet again.

As anyone who has ever tried to attach a Manfrotto bowl clamp to a Vinten half ball (or vice versa) can attest, it just plain don't work.

Owing to the different threads on their respective bolts, they simply are not compatible.

The Manfrotto adapter I highlighted will be threaded for a Manfrotto clamp bolt and thus will not take a Vinten head.

Looks like you're back to the "cheap alternative head" option as the only viable way to go.

Bummer, huh?

CS

Mat Thompson · November 10th, 2009, 05:59 PM

Ok...I'd actually worked through and found these parts myself. But thanks for letting me know the thread patterns are different....what a pain in the arse ! You are 100% sure about this ?

Chris Soucy · November 10th, 2009, 06:26 PM

in fact, I was so afraid I was having a "senior moment" I just went and tried it again.

PITA it is, indeed.

There is a very small chance you could change the captive threaded nut, used in the Manfrotto adapter, to fit a Vinten bolt, but I personally wouldn't buy a lottery ticket based on the odds.

Back to the drawing board I'm afraid.

CS

Alastair Traill · November 11th, 2009, 01:17 AM

Hi Mat,

I am a bit vague as to what you are trying to do but I have some pictures that may give you an idea or two. One shows a black anodized ring and a ‘natural’ anodized ring. Both have been machined to accept a 4” ball. The mating surface was radiused to suit. The black ring is inverted to show a groove that was machined to fit to an aluminium channel with the 4 screws shown. If you do not need a ball leveling system and just want to attach the head to something other than a tripod you may be able to adapt this idea.

Another picture shows a 4” ball and protruding bolt. One end of the bolt has a smaller ball fitted to it that fits inside a smaller ball cup at the center of the 4” ball. With a suitable mounting system the 4” ball can be drawn into its mating cup using the bolt. This arrangement means that the bolt always points in the same direction.

The third picture shows a short arm with a complete leveling system attached. The device uses a ball and a ring as described above. In this case the ball started life as a billiard ball. The ball is adjusted and tightened using the small protruding lever.http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/images/attach/jpg.gif

Peter Damo · November 11th, 2009, 06:01 AM

Alastair, the idea is to mount the fluid head of a Vinten tripod onto a "base" or carriage so that it can glide along a track. So far however no base accepts the Vinten head due to the difference in the thread that is on the bolt of the head and the receiving "base".
You can get an idea of how it works here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/dolly-tr...39-slider.html

Jawad Mir · November 18th, 2009, 08:21 PM

i have a simiar question. i just got myself a slider and have the old manfrotto 501 not the hdv version.

can I separate the bowl from the legs so I can use it for slider. it does have screws but just wanted to make sure that it can be done before i pull it apart

Alastair Traill · November 20th, 2009, 09:56 PM

The point I was trying to make in my post above is that it possible to change the ball to another shape by the use of a ring - see photos. The first shows antique Miller that in fact has a removable ball that we will forget for this exercise. If the ring is placed over the ball and to illustrate my point a disc with a hole in it is placed over the bolt and ring you now an easier shape to work with, Instead of a disc you could use any one of a number of things .http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/images/a...attach/jpg.gif

Tim Le · November 21st, 2009, 10:16 PM

Another option is to just mount the Vinten head to a hi hat and then screw the hi hat to a board and mount that to your slider.

Hi hats are kinda expensive but you can use them for other purposes too. They make them in 75mm, 100mm and 150mm bowl sizes.

Chris Soucy · November 21st, 2009, 10:46 PM

Been away, so a bit backed up.

Jawad

- yep, if you have a 501, just undo, well, back off, the anti rotate screws from the ball and it will simply unscrew to reveal a flat based head ripe for a slider.

Tim

- you've got it, of course. If the slider will take a hi - hat, you're good to go. Even Vinten do an ultra short clamp bolt for just such an occasion.

Alastair

- the link appears broken, so not sure where you were going with your input, tho' I think the above has pretty well sorted it.

CS

November 10th, 2009, 03:33 PM	#1
Mat Thompson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 1,397	Removing the bowl from the head ? Hi guys Just looking for a bit of advice removing the bowl from the head...I'm assuming this can be done ? - Theres seems no obvious way of doing this? Its a Vision 3 head / 75mm bowl. Many thanks Mat

November 10th, 2009, 03:35 PM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	IIRC under the head there are some set screws that lock the head to the bowl. Pull the bowl off the legs turn it over and the screws should be seen. A Small headed screwdriver, a couple of turns (don't take the screws out they're a bear to replace) twist the head off. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

November 10th, 2009, 04:05 PM	#3
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Er, Mat............... Can you clarify the question please? Are you asking whether the hemispherical steel BALL attached to the underside of the head can be removed OR are you asking whether the hemispherical BOWL attached to the tripod legs can be removed? If it's the former (why on earth would you want to?) the answer is no. Well, actually, you can, but will be left with what amounts to a useless pile of junk. There is no hidden 3/8 threaded socket to fit the head to a flat base tripod and the ball is an integral part of the pan mechanism. If it's the latter (why on earth..........) the answer is yes, but you will still end up with the useless pile of junk scenario. CS

November 10th, 2009, 04:15 PM	#4
Mat Thompson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 1,397	Hi guys Yes I was refering the the ball not the bowl. Sorry about the confusion. And yes I wondered whether that part fitted to a flat base with some sort of fixation point that could be conected to dolly slider !? Attached is an image of the bottom of the head. Chris I take it from your answer this is a NO theres nothing under there to connect too and that that equally the head couldn't be used on something like an indislider without extra pieces!? Attached Thumbnails

November 10th, 2009, 05:55 PM	#7
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Whoops........... Subsquent to my post, (#5) I had a serious case of deja vu and realised I'd been here before and fallen into the same trap, yet again. As anyone who has ever tried to attach a Manfrotto bowl clamp to a Vinten half ball (or vice versa) can attest, it just plain don't work. Owing to the different threads on their respective bolts, they simply are not compatible. The Manfrotto adapter I highlighted will be threaded for a Manfrotto clamp bolt and thus will not take a Vinten head. Looks like you're back to the "cheap alternative head" option as the only viable way to go. Bummer, huh? CS

November 10th, 2009, 04:56 PM	#5
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Nope.......... Can't be done, sorry. As I said, the ball is an integral part of the pan & drag system and it's removal basically knackers the entire thing. If you go to the Vinten site and register yourself an account (as a Vinten owner), it gives you access to the Vinten Download maintenance manual library. A quick squizz at the Vision 3 manual is all it will take to confirm the above. For an IndieSlider I'd suggest a cheap Manfrotto flat bottomed head OR........................ tripods, heads, monopods, light stands, camera supports, lighting supports, professional tripod 325N - ADATTATORE PER SFERA maybe one of these perhaps? Should do the job nicely. CS

November 10th, 2009, 05:59 PM	#8
Mat Thompson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 1,397	Ok...I'd actually worked through and found these parts myself. But thanks for letting me know the thread patterns are different....what a pain in the arse ! You are 100% sure about this ?

November 10th, 2009, 06:26 PM	#9
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	'Fraid so..................... in fact, I was so afraid I was having a "senior moment" I just went and tried it again. PITA it is, indeed. There is a very small chance you could change the captive threaded nut, used in the Manfrotto adapter, to fit a Vinten bolt, but I personally wouldn't buy a lottery ticket based on the odds. Back to the drawing board I'm afraid. CS

November 11th, 2009, 01:17 AM	#10
Alastair Traill Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 626	Hi Mat, I am a bit vague as to what you are trying to do but I have some pictures that may give you an idea or two. One shows a black anodized ring and a ‘natural’ anodized ring. Both have been machined to accept a 4” ball. The mating surface was radiused to suit. The black ring is inverted to show a groove that was machined to fit to an aluminium channel with the 4 screws shown. If you do not need a ball leveling system and just want to attach the head to something other than a tripod you may be able to adapt this idea. Another picture shows a 4” ball and protruding bolt. One end of the bolt has a smaller ball fitted to it that fits inside a smaller ball cup at the center of the 4” ball. With a suitable mounting system the 4” ball can be drawn into its mating cup using the bolt. This arrangement means that the bolt always points in the same direction. The third picture shows a short arm with a complete leveling system attached. The device uses a ball and a ring as described above. In this case the ball started life as a billiard ball. The ball is adjusted and tightened using the small protruding lever.http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/images/attach/jpg.gif Attached Thumbnails

November 11th, 2009, 06:01 AM	#11
Peter Damo Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Sydney, NSW Posts: 90	sample Alastair, the idea is to mount the fluid head of a Vinten tripod onto a "base" or carriage so that it can glide along a track. So far however no base accepts the Vinten head due to the difference in the thread that is on the bolt of the head and the receiving "base". You can get an idea of how it works here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/dolly-tr...39-slider.html

November 18th, 2009, 08:21 PM	#12
Jawad Mir Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 371	i have a simiar question. i just got myself a slider and have the old manfrotto 501 not the hdv version. can I separate the bowl from the legs so I can use it for slider. it does have screws but just wanted to make sure that it can be done before i pull it apart __________________ Jawad Mir / Cinematographer . Filmmaker Film Style Weddings http://www.filmstyleweddings.com Jawad Mir http://www.jawadmir.com

November 20th, 2009, 09:56 PM	#13
Alastair Traill Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 626	The point I was trying to make in my post above is that it possible to change the ball to another shape by the use of a ring - see photos. The first shows antique Miller that in fact has a removable ball that we will forget for this exercise. If the ring is placed over the ball and to illustrate my point a disc with a hole in it is placed over the bolt and ring you now an easier shape to work with, Instead of a disc you could use any one of a number of things .http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/images/a...attach/jpg.gif Attached Thumbnails

November 21st, 2009, 10:16 PM	#14
Tim Le Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 350	Another option is to just mount the Vinten head to a hi hat and then screw the hi hat to a board and mount that to your slider. Hi hats are kinda expensive but you can use them for other purposes too. They make them in 75mm, 100mm and 150mm bowl sizes. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Le; November 21st, 2009 at 11:37 PM. Reason: Meant to say expensive

November 21st, 2009, 10:46 PM	#15
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Hi guys............ Been away, so a bit backed up. Jawad - yep, if you have a 501, just undo, well, back off, the anti rotate screws from the ball and it will simply unscrew to reveal a flat based head ripe for a slider. Tim - you've got it, of course. If the slider will take a hi - hat, you're good to go. Even Vinten do an ultra short clamp bolt for just such an occasion. Alastair - the link appears broken, so not sure where you were going with your input, tho' I think the above has pretty well sorted it. CS