use tripod with steadyshot? at DVinfo.net

Len Rosenberg · January 30th, 2005, 08:08 AM

Has anyone experimented with using a camera's anti shake function with a tripod? I'll be using a PD170 that has a "steadyshot" antishake function, on a tripod. The manual says don't use steady shot if you are shooting a stationary subject using a tripod, but doesn't say anything about using it if you are panning and zooming, etc, or if your subject is not stationary and you are using a tripod. Coming from a photo background, I am aware that certain Canon Image Stabized lenses can be used with a tripod with the stabilizer on, and others can't; also that in some cases the lens manual is incorrect ( stabilizer can be used with a tripod, even though the manual says no). Just wondering if anyone has looked into this. Thanks as always for your help.

Rob Lohman · January 30th, 2005, 08:23 AM

Ofcourse you *can* use it. Nothing is preventing you, however
you usually do not want to. OIS for still shooting is something
different because it helps you shoot from far away and get shake
free picture OF THAT INSTANT. A video camera does this 30/25/24
frames per second, and here is where the problems come.

The role of an OIS is to get shakes to go, however it doesn't
know what you are doing until it happens. So if you pan on a
tripod it might (probably will) think this is the start of a shake
and compensate accordingly (which is NOT what you want!).

A tripod is (should be!!) sturdy enough for you not to need an
OIS. Usually you don't want to zoom in that much anyway
(depending on what you are shooting, ofcourse).

Boyd Ostroff · January 30th, 2005, 09:26 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Len Rosenberg : Has anyone experimented with using a camera's anti shake function with a tripod? -->>>

Yes, I have, and would encourage you to do the same as well. My experience is that there are times when you do want to use it, and times when you don't. I shoot our performances from the back of the theatre, over 100 feet from the stage. So I spend much of the time zoomed in the full way with my PDX-10's 12x lens. I also often add a 2x telephoto adaptor to the lens to get closeups. Without the OIS these 24x shots would be worthless because of the vibration.

I've experimented quite a bit in these conditions, and can say without a doubt that the steadyshot (in my case it's "Optical Super SteadyShot") makes a HUGE difference. In fact, without it I find the footage nearly unusable. Now I'm using a pretty heavy tripod and head (A Miller DS-5) for my PDX-10 which is a small camera. Even so, as soon as you touch the tripod there is some shake, and our 150 year old theatre full of 2,500 people actually bounces around noticeably as well. The OIS really smooths out the bumps. There will be an occasional jerk during a slow pan sometimes, where the OIS thinks it needs to stabilize your intentional movement, but honestly these are very rare and are worth the tradeoff in order to get stable footage for the rest of the show.

So if you're doing things that involve a high level of zoom I think you'll find OIS to be helpful. I have also observed similar results using my VX-2000 which should be pretty comparable to your PD-170. But like everything else, try it for yourself and see what you think.... don't just take my word for it!

Len Rosenberg · January 30th, 2005, 07:50 PM

Thanks for the replies. I just shot a jazz band concert using a Vinten vision 3 on Gitzo carbon fiber legs, and kept OIS off the entire time. No problems, very smooth. But then, I wasn't that far from the stage, and the floor was carpet over concrete, so no vibration. But I agree with your advice and will try the OIS with the tripod just to see how it goes. Now to figure out how to deal with multiple nightmarish exposure problems created by harsh, contrasty spotlights on musicians in black suits and white shirts, playing shiny laquered instruments...............aargh. That will be in a different forum, of course...

Rob Lohman · January 31st, 2005, 04:52 AM

Indeed, if there are occassions where you are zoomed in a lot
OIS can definitely be handy (as Boyd explained very well). I once
had a scene with my XL1S where I pan (wide angle) from someone
who walks from a car to a door (the pan starts after the person
starts walking) and almost every time the shot started with a
bad stutter (I wasn't on a fluid head tripod either) which was gone
the moment I disabled the OIS. So in some cases it definitely
works better than in others <g>

(I also once had a shot where I was standing on a beach with
the camera in my hands [no tripod] and was shooting a little
construction in the sea at max telephoto [16x]. The shot was
very well stabilized! I was very impressed with the OIS on that
day!)

Allen Brodsky · January 31st, 2005, 09:22 AM

Len,
There is a thread in the PD170 forum on setting up the PD170 to deal with situations like you describe. If you haven't seen it, it might be of interest to you:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...599#post268599

Len Rosenberg · February 3rd, 2005, 09:52 PM

Thanks Allen, that's an interesting thread. The real problem, though, is that dv simply cannot handle such a severe contrast range.

January 30th, 2005, 08:08 AM	#1
Len Rosenberg Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Washington NY Posts: 114	use tripod with steadyshot? Has anyone experimented with using a camera's anti shake function with a tripod? I'll be using a PD170 that has a "steadyshot" antishake function, on a tripod. The manual says don't use steady shot if you are shooting a stationary subject using a tripod, but doesn't say anything about using it if you are panning and zooming, etc, or if your subject is not stationary and you are using a tripod. Coming from a photo background, I am aware that certain Canon Image Stabized lenses can be used with a tripod with the stabilizer on, and others can't; also that in some cases the lens manual is incorrect ( stabilizer can be used with a tripod, even though the manual says no). Just wondering if anyone has looked into this. Thanks as always for your help.

January 30th, 2005, 08:23 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Ofcourse you can use it. Nothing is preventing you, however you usually do not want to. OIS for still shooting is something different because it helps you shoot from far away and get shake free picture OF THAT INSTANT. A video camera does this 30/25/24 frames per second, and here is where the problems come. The role of an OIS is to get shakes to go, however it doesn't know what you are doing until it happens. So if you pan on a tripod it might (probably will) think this is the start of a shake and compensate accordingly (which is NOT what you want!). A tripod is (should be!!) sturdy enough for you not to need an OIS. Usually you don't want to zoom in that much anyway (depending on what you are shooting, ofcourse). __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 30th, 2005, 09:26 AM	#3
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,800	Re: use tripod with steadyshot? <<<-- Originally posted by Len Rosenberg : Has anyone experimented with using a camera's anti shake function with a tripod? -->>> Yes, I have, and would encourage you to do the same as well. My experience is that there are times when you do want to use it, and times when you don't. I shoot our performances from the back of the theatre, over 100 feet from the stage. So I spend much of the time zoomed in the full way with my PDX-10's 12x lens. I also often add a 2x telephoto adaptor to the lens to get closeups. Without the OIS these 24x shots would be worthless because of the vibration. I've experimented quite a bit in these conditions, and can say without a doubt that the steadyshot (in my case it's "Optical Super SteadyShot") makes a HUGE difference. In fact, without it I find the footage nearly unusable. Now I'm using a pretty heavy tripod and head (A Miller DS-5) for my PDX-10 which is a small camera. Even so, as soon as you touch the tripod there is some shake, and our 150 year old theatre full of 2,500 people actually bounces around noticeably as well. The OIS really smooths out the bumps. There will be an occasional jerk during a slow pan sometimes, where the OIS thinks it needs to stabilize your intentional movement, but honestly these are very rare and are worth the tradeoff in order to get stable footage for the rest of the show. So if you're doing things that involve a high level of zoom I think you'll find OIS to be helpful. I have also observed similar results using my VX-2000 which should be pretty comparable to your PD-170. But like everything else, try it for yourself and see what you think.... don't just take my word for it!

January 31st, 2005, 04:52 AM	#5
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Indeed, if there are occassions where you are zoomed in a lot OIS can definitely be handy (as Boyd explained very well). I once had a scene with my XL1S where I pan (wide angle) from someone who walks from a car to a door (the pan starts after the person starts walking) and almost every time the shot started with a bad stutter (I wasn't on a fluid head tripod either) which was gone the moment I disabled the OIS. So in some cases it definitely works better than in others <g> (I also once had a shot where I was standing on a beach with the camera in my hands [no tripod] and was shooting a little construction in the sea at max telephoto [16x]. The shot was very well stabilized! I was very impressed with the OIS on that day!) __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 31st, 2005, 09:22 AM	#6
Allen Brodsky Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Eatontown, NJ Posts: 118	Exposure issues Len, There is a thread in the PD170 forum on setting up the PD170 to deal with situations like you describe. If you haven't seen it, it might be of interest to you: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...599#post268599

January 30th, 2005, 07:50 PM	#4
Len Rosenberg Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Washington NY Posts: 114	Thanks for the replies. I just shot a jazz band concert using a Vinten vision 3 on Gitzo carbon fiber legs, and kept OIS off the entire time. No problems, very smooth. But then, I wasn't that far from the stage, and the floor was carpet over concrete, so no vibration. But I agree with your advice and will try the OIS with the tripod just to see how it goes. Now to figure out how to deal with multiple nightmarish exposure problems created by harsh, contrasty spotlights on musicians in black suits and white shirts, playing shiny laquered instruments...............aargh. That will be in a different forum, of course...

February 3rd, 2005, 09:52 PM	#7
Len Rosenberg Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Washington NY Posts: 114	Thanks Allen, that's an interesting thread. The real problem, though, is that dv simply cannot handle such a severe contrast range.