Bogen 3011 vs 3221 at DVinfo.net

John Britt · December 21st, 2004, 07:42 AM

Yes, I'm in the market for a inexpensive support solution. Yes, I've searched this forum (only to drive me further insane...). B&H has a great deal on the Libec M20 right now, but I've heard complaints about it's panning ability, and it's a little too short...

So, I'm considering a 501 head on either 3011 or 3221 sticks. What sets them apart from each other? I see that the 3221 is about 2 lbs heavier and has flip-locks for the legs, vs. wing-locks for the 3011. What else is different? Is the 3221 worth $60 more?

In searching here, I've seen positive remarks for both, but few -- if any -- comparisons. One member seemed to say that the 3011's wing-locks would be preferable over the flip locks, but that was about all I could find. I'm looking at both of these b/c of their height (yes, I know extending the center column is not always a good idea, but sometimes you need to be eye-level...), so I'd be open to suggestions for similarly sized, even cheaper, tripods from other manufactures that will work with the 501 head. The tripod will support a Panny DVC80.

Marc Schotland · December 22nd, 2004, 03:03 AM

I can provide answers on the differences between the 3011N and the 3221WN, but I will reserve my comments / bias on other tripods to the members of this forum.

The 3221WN includes:

- quick action leg locks
- leg warmers (to protect your hands in cold weather)
- retractable spiked feet (for more stable positioning in the field) -- low angle adapter.

The 3011N is the basic tripod without all the above features. In addition, the 3221WN is a black tripod, whereas the 3011N is silver (choose code 3011BN for black version)

Marc Schotland
Manfrotto

Carlos E. Martinez · December 22nd, 2004, 07:36 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by John Britt : Yes, I'm in the market for a inexpensive support solution. Yes, I've searched this forum (only to drive me further insane...). B&H has a great deal on the Libec M20 right now, but I've heard complaints about it's panning ability, and it's a little too short...

So, I'm considering a 501 head on either 3011 or 3221 sticks. What sets them apart from each other? I see that the 3221 is about 2 lbs heavier and has flip-locks for the legs, vs. wing-locks for the 3011. What else is different? Is the 3221 worth $60 more?
-->>>

Most tripods will support a DV camera up to about 6 or 8 pounds. The important question is not that, but how will the legs behave when you do a pan or tilt. They should hold the head and camera steady, and IMO only legs like the 3181/3182 can do a proper job there.

Weight is not that much over telescopic types, and as long as you are not walking long distances with it, hiking or trekking, you should be better off with that dual-tube type of legs.

Carlos

John Britt · December 22nd, 2004, 09:11 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Carlos E. Martinez :

Most tripods will support a DV camera up to about 6 or 8 pounds. The important question is not that, but how will the legs behave when you do a pan or tilt. -->>>

A slight upgrade in panning and tilting is the exact reason I wanted to move forward from the cheap tripod I currently have. Weight is not an issue, other than I was thinking heavier=better=more sturdy (at least for inexpensive legs).

Unfortunately, the 3182 is just outside my budget -- in fact, even the 3221 + the 501 pushed my budget beyond what I'd like to pay right now. How poorly do you think the 3011 would be for panning and tilting (used mostly indoors for local ads -- as oppossed to outdoors or for high-action sports or for dramatic work, for what that matters)

Marc -- thank you for the clarificiation. It looks like the 3221 doesn't have anything I necessarily need right now. And yes, I was looking at the WN vs the BN -- I'm just a lazy typist :) It's good to see a Manfrotto Man in here to help out.

John Britt · December 29th, 2004, 08:01 PM

OK, now I'm looking at the 3011BN with 3126 Micro fluid head. The guy at the photo/video shop claims the 501 would be horribly mismatched with the 3011 and would also be too heavy for it. Of course, he has otherwise been a complete jerk the past two times I've been there, so I don't know if I can take him seriously or not. That said, the 3011 w/ the 3126 head seemed sturdy and smooth, and it's less than $200 -- and John Jackman even recommended this combo at another site. The 3011 was sturdier than I expected, from what Carlos had said, and I think it will work well.

I was surprised by the 3126, and may go with this head... unless anyone's got something I need to know...

Thanks for your help.

EDIT: Does anyone know if the 3130 head is the same as the 3126 head, but with a QR plate? Or is it a completely different head?

Marc Schotland · December 30th, 2004, 03:27 AM

>>EDIT: Does anyone know if the 3130 head is the same as the 3126 head, but with a QR plate? Or is it a completely different head?

Yes, the 3126 and 3130 are the same head with the exception that the 3130 has a quick release plate.

Marc Schotland
Manfrotto

Michael Gibbons · January 4th, 2005, 04:44 PM

What is the difference?
Thanks.
MG

Mark Williams · January 4th, 2005, 06:32 PM

John,

I have the 3221 legs and a 501 head. If you get this combo consider adding the ball leveller.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=203536&is=REG

This really adds to quick tripod setup. If this combo is stretching your budget a little then try picking up a used 501 head on E-bay. They should be in the $75.00 range. The 3221 legs are built like a rock and has a wide range of hieghts. The center column removes and there is a short plug you can insert with the head. This allows you to get just inches off the ground for a unique perspective. I will probably keep these legs when I upgrade to another head. The 501 isn't the best head but it gets the job done except on longer panning telephoto shots where its a little rough. Otherwise it is smooth if you exhibit a little finesse on your pans.

Also Showcase Camera & Video in Atlanta had this combo in the store when I visited them last week just in case you want to play with one first. Also you can play with some of the higher end models just to see how they compare. I would bring your cam with you when trying them out.

Link: http://www.showcaseinc.com/site/

Good Luck,

Mark

John Britt · January 4th, 2005, 06:53 PM

Too late, Mark -- I already ordered the 3011 with the 3130 head. I'm just trying to do a lot with very little money -- build a new PC, upgrade some of my equipment, etc.

By the way, the rude photo/video store employee I mentioned above works at Showcase. After the way he acted the past two times I was there (within about a week), I will not spend any more money at Showcase. Why pay more just to be given attitude by a**holes? I can buy my equipment cheaper online at B&H (even photofloods can be bought cheaper at places like bulbdirect, even with shipping). This guy literally walked away from me while I was in mid-question, and didn't even come back after I stood there for nearly 10 minutes, watching him talk to some guy about "what it was like when I [he, that is] was doing DV work in the 90s." Sorry, I've got a whole rant about that that should probably go in the TOTEM forum...

Mark Williams · January 4th, 2005, 07:20 PM

John,

Same experience I had with them. I just use them to get to try new equipment out and that's all. I would never buy from them because of thier poor customer attitude but have no problem using them as a resource to get the "product hands on" I need to evaluate a product and then go buy from someone else. I likewise buy from B&H. It ceases to amaze me how some places like Showcase stay in business. I come from the old school where where a little common courtesy leads to building trust and customer loyalty which is something we see very little of these days.

Regards,

Mark

Tom DelRosario · January 26th, 2005, 03:26 PM

I know it's too late for a reply, but for others who have this question, there is one important difference between the 3011 and the 3221.

The 3011 only has one spread angle for the legs.

The 3221 had 4 spread settings so you can spread the legs out further--useful if you want the tripod to be really low.

Marc Schotland · January 27th, 2005, 06:29 AM

Hi Tom:

Back in January 2004 we introduced modifications to the entire range of 3001 (190 int'l code) and 3021 (055 int'l code) tripods (including the 3011N). Therefore, now all 3011N tripods have the 4 leg angle settings.

Marc Schotland
Manfrotto

December 21st, 2004, 07:42 AM	#1
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Bogen 3011 vs 3221 Yes, I'm in the market for a inexpensive support solution. Yes, I've searched this forum (only to drive me further insane...). B&H has a great deal on the Libec M20 right now, but I've heard complaints about it's panning ability, and it's a little too short... So, I'm considering a 501 head on either 3011 or 3221 sticks. What sets them apart from each other? I see that the 3221 is about 2 lbs heavier and has flip-locks for the legs, vs. wing-locks for the 3011. What else is different? Is the 3221 worth $60 more? In searching here, I've seen positive remarks for both, but few -- if any -- comparisons. One member seemed to say that the 3011's wing-locks would be preferable over the flip locks, but that was about all I could find. I'm looking at both of these b/c of their height (yes, I know extending the center column is not always a good idea, but sometimes you need to be eye-level...), so I'd be open to suggestions for similarly sized, even cheaper, tripods from other manufactures that will work with the 501 head. The tripod will support a Panny DVC80.

December 22nd, 2004, 07:36 AM	#3
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	Re: Bogen 3011 vs 3221 <<<-- Originally posted by John Britt : Yes, I'm in the market for a inexpensive support solution. Yes, I've searched this forum (only to drive me further insane...). B&H has a great deal on the Libec M20 right now, but I've heard complaints about it's panning ability, and it's a little too short... So, I'm considering a 501 head on either 3011 or 3221 sticks. What sets them apart from each other? I see that the 3221 is about 2 lbs heavier and has flip-locks for the legs, vs. wing-locks for the 3011. What else is different? Is the 3221 worth $60 more? -->>> Most tripods will support a DV camera up to about 6 or 8 pounds. The important question is not that, but how will the legs behave when you do a pan or tilt. They should hold the head and camera steady, and IMO only legs like the 3181/3182 can do a proper job there. Weight is not that much over telescopic types, and as long as you are not walking long distances with it, hiking or trekking, you should be better off with that dual-tube type of legs. Carlos

December 22nd, 2004, 09:11 AM	#4
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Re: Re: Bogen 3011 vs 3221 <<<-- Originally posted by Carlos E. Martinez : Most tripods will support a DV camera up to about 6 or 8 pounds. The important question is not that, but how will the legs behave when you do a pan or tilt. -->>> A slight upgrade in panning and tilting is the exact reason I wanted to move forward from the cheap tripod I currently have. Weight is not an issue, other than I was thinking heavier=better=more sturdy (at least for inexpensive legs). Unfortunately, the 3182 is just outside my budget -- in fact, even the 3221 + the 501 pushed my budget beyond what I'd like to pay right now. How poorly do you think the 3011 would be for panning and tilting (used mostly indoors for local ads -- as oppossed to outdoors or for high-action sports or for dramatic work, for what that matters) Marc -- thank you for the clarificiation. It looks like the 3221 doesn't have anything I necessarily need right now. And yes, I was looking at the WN vs the BN -- I'm just a lazy typist :) It's good to see a Manfrotto Man in here to help out.

January 4th, 2005, 04:44 PM	#7
Michael Gibbons Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Loveland, Colorado, USA Posts: 292	Microfluid vs Fluid What is the difference? Thanks. MG __________________ " When some wild-eyed, eight foot tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head against a bar room wall, and looks you crooked in the eye, and he asks you if you've payed your dues, well, you just stare that big suker right back in the eye, and you remember what old Jack Burton always says at a time like that, 'Have you paid your dues, Jack? Yes sir, the check is in the mail."

December 22nd, 2004, 03:03 AM	#2
Marc Schotland Manfrotto Product Manager Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italy Posts: 33	I can provide answers on the differences between the 3011N and the 3221WN, but I will reserve my comments / bias on other tripods to the members of this forum. The 3221WN includes: - quick action leg locks - leg warmers (to protect your hands in cold weather) - retractable spiked feet (for more stable positioning in the field) -- low angle adapter. The 3011N is the basic tripod without all the above features. In addition, the 3221WN is a black tripod, whereas the 3011N is silver (choose code 3011BN for black version) Marc Schotland Manfrotto

December 29th, 2004, 08:01 PM	#5
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	OK, now I'm looking at the 3011BN with 3126 Micro fluid head. The guy at the photo/video shop claims the 501 would be horribly mismatched with the 3011 and would also be too heavy for it. Of course, he has otherwise been a complete jerk the past two times I've been there, so I don't know if I can take him seriously or not. That said, the 3011 w/ the 3126 head seemed sturdy and smooth, and it's less than $200 -- and John Jackman even recommended this combo at another site. The 3011 was sturdier than I expected, from what Carlos had said, and I think it will work well. I was surprised by the 3126, and may go with this head... unless anyone's got something I need to know... Thanks for your help. EDIT: Does anyone know if the 3130 head is the same as the 3126 head, but with a QR plate? Or is it a completely different head?

December 30th, 2004, 03:27 AM	#6
Marc Schotland Manfrotto Product Manager Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italy Posts: 33	>>EDIT: Does anyone know if the 3130 head is the same as the 3126 head, but with a QR plate? Or is it a completely different head? Yes, the 3126 and 3130 are the same head with the exception that the 3130 has a quick release plate. Marc Schotland Manfrotto

January 4th, 2005, 06:32 PM	#8
Mark Williams Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep South, U.S. Posts: 1,526	John, I have the 3221 legs and a 501 head. If you get this combo consider adding the ball leveller. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=203536&is=REG This really adds to quick tripod setup. If this combo is stretching your budget a little then try picking up a used 501 head on E-bay. They should be in the $75.00 range. The 3221 legs are built like a rock and has a wide range of hieghts. The center column removes and there is a short plug you can insert with the head. This allows you to get just inches off the ground for a unique perspective. I will probably keep these legs when I upgrade to another head. The 501 isn't the best head but it gets the job done except on longer panning telephoto shots where its a little rough. Otherwise it is smooth if you exhibit a little finesse on your pans. Also Showcase Camera & Video in Atlanta had this combo in the store when I visited them last week just in case you want to play with one first. Also you can play with some of the higher end models just to see how they compare. I would bring your cam with you when trying them out. Link: http://www.showcaseinc.com/site/ Good Luck, Mark

January 4th, 2005, 06:53 PM	#9
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Too late, Mark -- I already ordered the 3011 with the 3130 head. I'm just trying to do a lot with very little money -- build a new PC, upgrade some of my equipment, etc. By the way, the rude photo/video store employee I mentioned above works at Showcase. After the way he acted the past two times I was there (within about a week), I will not spend any more money at Showcase. Why pay more just to be given attitude by a*holes? I can buy my equipment cheaper online at B&H (even photofloods can be bought cheaper at places like bulbdirect, even with shipping). This guy literally walked away from me while I was in mid-question, and didn't even come back after I stood there for nearly 10 minutes, watching him talk to some guy about "what it was like when I [he, that is*] was doing DV work in the 90s." Sorry, I've got a whole rant about that that should probably go in the TOTEM forum...

January 4th, 2005, 07:20 PM	#10
Mark Williams Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep South, U.S. Posts: 1,526	John, Same experience I had with them. I just use them to get to try new equipment out and that's all. I would never buy from them because of thier poor customer attitude but have no problem using them as a resource to get the "product hands on" I need to evaluate a product and then go buy from someone else. I likewise buy from B&H. It ceases to amaze me how some places like Showcase stay in business. I come from the old school where where a little common courtesy leads to building trust and customer loyalty which is something we see very little of these days. Regards, Mark

January 26th, 2005, 03:26 PM	#11
Tom DelRosario Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 27	I know it's too late for a reply, but for others who have this question, there is one important difference between the 3011 and the 3221. The 3011 only has one spread angle for the legs. The 3221 had 4 spread settings so you can spread the legs out further--useful if you want the tripod to be really low.

January 27th, 2005, 06:29 AM	#12
Marc Schotland Manfrotto Product Manager Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italy Posts: 33	Hi Tom: Back in January 2004 we introduced modifications to the entire range of 3001 (190 int'l code) and 3021 (055 int'l code) tripods (including the 3011N). Therefore, now all 3011N tripods have the 4 leg angle settings. Marc Schotland Manfrotto