Anybody see the newest (cheap) Manfrotto head?

Tim Borek · May 6th, 2005, 10:45 AM

Largely because of recommendations on this message board, I just purchased a new Manfrotto 701RC2 head w/3021PRO legs yesterday from a local camera store. (Price was better than B&H, much to my surprise!) This being my first respectable semi-professional fluid head, I'm unclear about fitting it into a tripod case. Will locking down the tilt for extended periods of time in the +80 to +90 degree position, so the pan bar fits in the tripod case, harm the internal balance spring? Seems to me that this could rob the spring of its elasticity, but I don't know. Would I be better off transporting the tripod with the head at 0 tilt and just loosen the pan bar to fit in the case?

Thanks for taking the time to answer such an elementary question.

Michael Bernstein · May 6th, 2005, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Gettemeier

Ever hear of "stiction"? Stiction is a factor of friction... meaning the breaking point of motion start or the catching point of motion stop... A volume-based head should be immune to stiction/friction. At least in theory...

Also known as the static coefficient of friction. If you have a cinderblock sitting on a table, it's harder to start it moving initially than it is to accelerate it once it's moving (i.e. the delta of the velocity may be 20 cm/s in both cases, but applied force is distinctly higher if initial velocity is zero). Probably true of a greased plate as well.

I don't know if fluid-controlled motion has the same characteristics.

Michael

Matt Gettemeier · May 7th, 2005, 05:29 AM

Sorry Michael... I can tell you're smarter then I am! I was just trying to explain the concept from a layman's pov. I've been into motorcycles my whole life and with the suspension they always mention stiction... at least in relation to the front forks... which are bathed in a film of oil as the fork tubes move in and out... much in the same way that most "fluid" heads are... at least the heads that are actually "lubricated friction" rather then true fluid... which means about 95% of the heads out there.

It's rare to find one which really is fluid controlled... in most cases the motion is damped by a fluid bath... but the actual resistance to motion is provided by friction plates.

Michael Bernstein · May 8th, 2005, 12:58 AM

I never really got to fluid dynamics in my physics courses.

Once the fluid gets involved, I'm sure stuff changes. Maybe I'm wrong in saying that "stiction" is the same as the static coefficient of friction.

Arrhh.

Michael

Maksim Yankovskiy · May 13th, 2007, 11:08 PM

Just wanted to echo everyone's thanks to Marc for such in-depth explanation of fluid heads.

I've been torn between 501HDV and 503 head for weeks, and I got a very important project comming up in the middle of June, so I need to make a choice soon in order to have enough time to experiment and get used to the new setup.

Steve Leverich · May 14th, 2007, 06:04 AM

Depending on your camera, style of shooting, etc, another point to ponder - the 501 heads can have the pan bar mounted to either side, while the 503's only have a mount on the left side of the head. I use the opposing side for a wing nut/bolt to mount a plate that holds my Microtrack audio recorder, for example... Steve

Maksim Yankovskiy · May 14th, 2007, 12:44 PM

Interestingly enough, all pictures of 503 head had the panbar mounted on the right side. This should not be a problem for me, especially considering that if I get 503 now, I will most likely trade it up for 503HDV by the end of the year. I've got at least one big event I need to shoot before the 503HDV hits retail. I've also heard from many independent sources (some of them not biased) that 503 is smoother on pans, and that's my main requirement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Leverich

Depending on your camera, style of shooting, etc, another point to ponder - the 501 heads can have the pan bar mounted to either side, while the 503's only have a mount on the left side of the head. I use the opposing side for a wing nut/bolt to mount a plate that holds my Microtrack audio recorder, for example... Steve

Steve Leverich · May 14th, 2007, 09:26 PM

Looking for more accurate info on which side(s) the different 500 series have pan bar on - my 501 is ambidextrous, but I've seen pix showing different things in different places. Trying ATM to dnl the Manfrotto catalog but their site is slower than molasses in january. Seems to me that having a choice in this is fairly important; as I said, I use the opposite side's threaded hole to mount another accessory, and don't wanna have to rethink that.

If it matters to anyone but me, I'll post when I find out for sure... STeve

OK, the catalog finally finished download; near as I can tell, BOTH sides of the 501, 501 HDV and 503 are equipped with rosettes - apparently the pix on B&H site have some sort of cleverly devised cover on the side that's not being used for the pan bar...

Adam Gold · May 16th, 2007, 12:29 PM

Yes, the pan bar definitely will mount to either side of the 503. I put the 523Pro Lanc pan bar on the right and planned on putting the standard pan bar that came with the head on the left... but the 523 didn't come with mounting hardware. So I had to order the clamp and thumbscrew from Bogen, but now a have two-handed control of the head. Yes, it's overkill, but for me it I can pan and tilt more smoothly when covering sports.

Maksim Yankovskiy · May 16th, 2007, 02:16 PM

Adam,

Which camcorder are you using 523PRO with? I am curious as to how useful it will be for XH-A1. I am most often controlling iris, zoom, and focus - in that order of priority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

Yes, the pan bar definitely will mount to either side of the 503. I put the 523Pro Lanc pan bar on the right and planned on putting the standard pan bar that came with the head on the left... but the 523 didn't come with mounting hardware. So I had to order the clamp and thumbscrew from Bogen, but now a have two-handed control of the head. Yes, it's overkill, but for me it I can pan and tilt more smoothly when covering sports.

Adam Gold · May 17th, 2007, 12:31 PM

I use it with my FX1. The 523Pro does not have iris control, but works nicely with focus and zoom.

I read somewhere that the "push-auto-focus" button resulted in some problems with some cams, but I think that was the V1, not the Canon.

Peter Rhalter · May 30th, 2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maksim Yankovskiy

I've been torn between 501HDV and 503 head for weeks, and I got a very important project comming up in the middle of June, so I need to make a choice soon in order to have enough time to experiment and get used to the new setup.

I think the 503 is a much smoother head than the 501. When I have used 501's, camera moves always started with a lurch. I would be leery of using them in a situation where there are no re-takes. YMMV.

Best wishes,
Peter
______________________
http://www.parkfilms.com

Maksim Yankovskiy · May 31st, 2007, 03:00 AM

Thanks, Peter. I am now a proud owner of the 503 head along with the 315MVB2 legs. The combo is great and the head itself is really smooth, though I am just getting used to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Rhalter

I think the 503 is a much smoother head than the 501. When I have used 501's, camera moves always started with a lurch. I would be leery of using them in a situation where there are no re-takes.

Jack Walker · May 31st, 2007, 10:27 AM

I am looking for a very light head. I saw the manfrotto and it looks fine.

However, here is another one that worked great and weighs 1.26 pounds, the Gitzo 2180
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...s_1_Fluid.html

A camera store here has it cheaper than B&H. It doesn't have a bubble, but it is very high quality and works well. It's made for sighting scopes and small DV cameras. I just mention it, because it seems like a good choice for travel, which I am looking for.

It is a Gitzo Series 1. The Gitzo legs are considerably more expensive than the heas, but it would work with other legs.

May 6th, 2005, 10:45 AM	#31
Tim Borek Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Westfield, IN Posts: 353	701RC2 storage Largely because of recommendations on this message board, I just purchased a new Manfrotto 701RC2 head w/3021PRO legs yesterday from a local camera store. (Price was better than B&H, much to my surprise!) This being my first respectable semi-professional fluid head, I'm unclear about fitting it into a tripod case. Will locking down the tilt for extended periods of time in the +80 to +90 degree position, so the pan bar fits in the tripod case, harm the internal balance spring? Seems to me that this could rob the spring of its elasticity, but I don't know. Would I be better off transporting the tripod with the head at 0 tilt and just loosen the pan bar to fit in the case? Thanks for taking the time to answer such an elementary question.

May 8th, 2005, 12:58 AM	#34
Michael Bernstein Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 114	I never really got to fluid dynamics in my physics courses. Once the fluid gets involved, I'm sure stuff changes. Maybe I'm wrong in saying that "stiction" is the same as the static coefficient of friction. Arrhh. Michael __________________ Michael Bernstein, actor & film maker. 10 films in 10 weeks: www.amplecatnap.com

May 14th, 2007, 09:26 PM	#38
Steve Leverich Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Albany Oregon Posts: 173	Looking for more accurate info on which side(s) the different 500 series have pan bar on - my 501 is ambidextrous, but I've seen pix showing different things in different places. Trying ATM to dnl the Manfrotto catalog but their site is slower than molasses in january. Seems to me that having a choice in this is fairly important; as I said, I use the opposite side's threaded hole to mount another accessory, and don't wanna have to rethink that. If it matters to anyone but me, I'll post when I find out for sure... STeve OK, the catalog finally finished download; near as I can tell, BOTH sides of the 501, 501 HDV and 503 are equipped with rosettes - apparently the pix on B&H site have some sort of cleverly devised cover on the side that's not being used for the pan bar... Last edited by Steve Leverich; May 14th, 2007 at 09:40 PM. Reason: New Info

May 7th, 2005, 05:29 AM	#33
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	Sorry Michael... I can tell you're smarter then I am! I was just trying to explain the concept from a layman's pov. I've been into motorcycles my whole life and with the suspension they always mention stiction... at least in relation to the front forks... which are bathed in a film of oil as the fork tubes move in and out... much in the same way that most "fluid" heads are... at least the heads that are actually "lubricated friction" rather then true fluid... which means about 95% of the heads out there. It's rare to find one which really is fluid controlled... in most cases the motion is damped by a fluid bath... but the actual resistance to motion is provided by friction plates.

May 13th, 2007, 11:08 PM	#35
Maksim Yankovskiy Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 114	Just wanted to echo everyone's thanks to Marc for such in-depth explanation of fluid heads. I've been torn between 501HDV and 503 head for weeks, and I got a very important project comming up in the middle of June, so I need to make a choice soon in order to have enough time to experiment and get used to the new setup.

May 14th, 2007, 06:04 AM	#36
Steve Leverich Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Albany Oregon Posts: 173	Depending on your camera, style of shooting, etc, another point to ponder - the 501 heads can have the pan bar mounted to either side, while the 503's only have a mount on the left side of the head. I use the opposing side for a wing nut/bolt to mount a plate that holds my Microtrack audio recorder, for example... Steve

May 16th, 2007, 12:29 PM	#39
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Yes, the pan bar definitely will mount to either side of the 503. I put the 523Pro Lanc pan bar on the right and planned on putting the standard pan bar that came with the head on the left... but the 523 didn't come with mounting hardware. So I had to order the clamp and thumbscrew from Bogen, but now a have two-handed control of the head. Yes, it's overkill, but for me it I can pan and tilt more smoothly when covering sports.

May 17th, 2007, 12:31 PM	#41
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	I use it with my FX1. The 523Pro does not have iris control, but works nicely with focus and zoom. I read somewhere that the "push-auto-focus" button resulted in some problems with some cams, but I think that was the V1, not the Canon.

May 31st, 2007, 10:27 AM	#44
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	I am looking for a very light head. I saw the manfrotto and it looks fine. However, here is another one that worked great and weighs 1.26 pounds, the Gitzo 2180 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...s_1_Fluid.html A camera store here has it cheaper than B&H. It doesn't have a bubble, but it is very high quality and works well. It's made for sighting scopes and small DV cameras. I just mention it, because it seems like a good choice for travel, which I am looking for. It is a Gitzo Series 1. The Gitzo legs are considerably more expensive than the heas, but it would work with other legs.