Tripod/Head for Sony Z1U & 5dMii - Sachtler 0473 FSB-6 good enough? at DVinfo.net

Gabroo Singh · August 10th, 2009, 09:43 PM

Hello all,

I've read through many, many posts re: tripod, head recommendations and thought the Bogen 532 w/ 503 head was the combo that seemed to be recommended most.

This was until I read this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/tripod-st...y-why-why.html The gist of this thread was that too many people ask which tripod/head is good, only to disregard the info/expertise of people that have experience with tripod/head combo.

In the above thread, Les Nagy wrote, "In the past a Manfrotto 503 head was OK for SD footage. HD footage shows errant movement much more, so what was adequate in the past isn't quite so anymore."

Being that I'm going to shoot HD w/ the Z1U & 5dmii, it sounds as though I may need to consider spending a bit more so that I don't end up hating my setup and buying the more expensive one (that I should have in the first place).

Although the thread indicated mentioned the ~$1400 range as the sweet spot, it didn't mention the recommended setup.

With that being said, is this setup better for me (for use w/ both Z1U & 5DMii): Sachtler | 0473 FSB-6 Aluminum Tripod System | 0473 | B&H Photo

It is the Sachtler 0473 FSB-6 Aluminum Tripod System - consists of: FSB-6 Fluid Head, 2-Stage Tripod, Mid-Level Spreader and Padded Case for $1430

Les Nagy · August 10th, 2009, 10:37 PM

Yup, you got it! That would be a nice setup. If you want to spend just a bit more I can highly recommend this as very convenient to use. I have the legs with an FSB-8.

Sachtler | 0475 FSB-6 Carbon Fiber Tripod System | 0475 | B&H

You are picking a good setup and won't regret it. The only problem is people who buy the right stuff the first time and save money in the long run don't get a chance to see how bad the usual first choices are.

Gabroo Singh · August 10th, 2009, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Nagy

Yup, you got it! That would be a nice setup. If you want to spend just a bit more I can highly recommend this as very convenient to use. I have the legs with an FSB-8.

Sachtler | 0475 FSB-6 Carbon Fiber Tripod System | 0475 | B&H

You are picking a good setup and won't regret it. The only problem is people who buy the right stuff the first time and save money in the long run don't get a chance to see how bad the usual first choices are.

Thanks for confirmation Les.

I checked the specs out and saw that the CF is 2 pounds lighter than the Alum one (or ~ 20%). Do you think that makes a huge difference?

Also, I know it may go against most peoples principles in this forum (as I have read in posts at least), but what dolly would you recommend?

I don't see any listed on the accessory portion (as I do for different tripods). Per a previous thread in the dolly forum, I read that if you go with a dolly, it is wise to use one with 5" wheels (although many complained about the jittering in general).

I have found the following dollys but am not sure if they are compatible:
Consumer Video Tripod Dollies | B&H Photo Video

Gabroo Singh · August 10th, 2009, 11:52 PM

Man, now I'm confused....

I just read this thread:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/tripod-st...uirements.html

In this thread it sounds as though I would need the Vinten Vision 3 in oder to counterbalance the 5dMii
V3AP1 Vinten Vision 3 Tripod System, with Vision 3 Fluid Head, Single-Stage Aluminum Pozi-Loc Tripod, On-Ground Spreader & Soft Case, Supports 22 lbs

Any thoughts?

Les Nagy · August 11th, 2009, 12:33 AM

First off, dollies like the ones you have pointed out are only good on smooooooth floors like painted perfect concrete ones. Anything else and you won't get smooth dolly shots. Even then these are mainly meant for fast positioning of a camera and not really meant for dolly moves.

If you want moves, better to build yourself a skateboard wheel and conduit track system for peanuts.

The Vinten system you listed is the old one I believe and has no advantage over the FSB-6. The new Vinten AS3 is a very nice system and has the advantage of being able to be infinitely adjusted for counterbalance.
Vinten | V3AS-AP1M Vision Pozi-Loc Aluminum Tripod | V3AS-AP1M
It is also much more expensive. The FSB-6 should make you happy but it might have counterbalance that doesn't quite exactly match the weight of the camera. there are ways to cheat with this and one of them is adding a bit of weight if needed. I doubt you will find it necessary.

The CF legs are probably stiffer even though they are lighter. I do not know for sure because I have not tried the aluminum legs myself. The other main advantage to the speed lock legs is how quick and easy it is to set height on the legs in a rush. It's hard to explain, you just have to try it.

Chris Soucy · August 11th, 2009, 12:53 AM

Welcome to the wacky world of low COG HD camera supports.

First things first, the dolly you're looking for is this:

Sachtler | Dolly 75 | 7063 | B&H Photo Video

(Just need to know which rock to look under).

Don't use mine often, but if you need to move a heavily loaded rig from A to B to C to D to A (repeat often) in a smooth floored auditorium, real quick, there's nothing to beat 'em.

The 2 pounds weight difference between CF and Ali basically comes down to whether that 2 pounds is going to add to your hernia quotient or not and, of course, the depth of your wallet.

On the subject of Sachtler configuration, you may or may not have found this:

http://www.sachtler-images.de/WebFot...%20Support.pdf

Ah, the 5DII.

Yeah, a bit of a bugger, that.

If you're not in a hurry you could wait and see if Vinten do, indeed, bring out a Vision 1/ 2 AS which MAY solve the 5D problem, tho' I'm not sure where that leaves you with the Sony Z1U (just checked the Vinten site and they're currently advising a V 3 (not AS) with a #1 spring for the 5D and the same head with a #2 spring for the Sony Z1E, interesting.)

Of course, if you go Vinten head, you have to go Vinten sticks (you can try "mix and match", but don't be suprised if it all goes sour).

I fear you are between a rock and a very hard place with this, there is currently not a "one size fits all" solution that I can think of for those two camera's, apart from the V3, and it's counterbalance is pretty hit and miss, as it is with all "stepped" systems.

As I said at the start, wacky is the word.

CS

Bo Sundvall · August 11th, 2009, 02:46 AM

Hi

Last week I ordered the tripod system you have been looking at, the Sachtler FSB6 / 2MD. For me it's an investment which I hope will work for a long time in the future. My present tripod is a Manfrotto 190BWB, which actually is a photo tripod, and a Manfrotto 503 head. I've never liked the 503 head and no matter what Manfrotto says, it's not a fluid head. It's very hard to set a descent drag as it's not adjustable in steps but by friction. The friction, at least on my head, changes if I pan with the head and by rotating it I can feel that friction changes during a loop. It has an irritating bounce back during pan and tilt, even with almost zero drag. It's almost impossible to start a pan or tilt smooth. The grease inside it makes noice. The counter balance is not adjustable and makes the camcorder go back to horisontal position if drag is to low and if I set drag higher it makes the head to bounce back. I don't know if the new 503HDV head is better, some people seems to like it, some people don't.

The tripod sticks, 190BWB, is not especially steady but I can't blame Manfrotto for that though it's a photo tripod and probably not ment to be used for panning and tilting a heavy camcorder (Canon XH-A1). What is worse is that I had the opportunity to try the rigidity on a Manfrotto 525MVB tripod with a ground spreader. It was better than my 190BWB but much worse than I ever could imagine for a tripod that costs $450 without head.

The reason I went for a Sachtler is that I wanted an adjustable counter balance system for a camcorder with low COG (Center Of Gravity). Studying the curves for the FSB6 head shows that my XH-A1 falls within the limits for it's counter balance system and also have enough room for added weight for my needs in the future. Sorry Chris, but Vinten V3AS is to expensive and for camcorders with higher COG which you describe in your review.

A Sachtler system is expensive an I have saved money a while to afford it. I don't make money on filming, it's my hobby but I want serious equipment. I don't want to go the expensive "upgrade route", buying equipment that will dissapoint me and which other people more or less has warned about. Buying cheap is expensive in the long run.

Hopefully I can make some kind of review on the Sachtler FSB6 / 2MD system when it arrives to me.

Regards,

/Bo

August 11th, 2009, 12:53 AM	#6
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Hi Gabroo.................. Welcome to the wacky world of low COG HD camera supports. First things first, the dolly you're looking for is this: Sachtler \| Dolly 75 \| 7063 \| B&H Photo Video (Just need to know which rock to look under). Don't use mine often, but if you need to move a heavily loaded rig from A to B to C to D to A (repeat often) in a smooth floored auditorium, real quick, there's nothing to beat 'em. The 2 pounds weight difference between CF and Ali basically comes down to whether that 2 pounds is going to add to your hernia quotient or not and, of course, the depth of your wallet. On the subject of Sachtler configuration, you may or may not have found this: http://www.sachtler-images.de/WebFot...%20Support.pdf Ah, the 5DII. Yeah, a bit of a bugger, that. If you're not in a hurry you could wait and see if Vinten do, indeed, bring out a Vision 1/ 2 AS which MAY solve the 5D problem, tho' I'm not sure where that leaves you with the Sony Z1U (just checked the Vinten site and they're currently advising a V 3 (not AS) with a #1 spring for the 5D and the same head with a #2 spring for the Sony Z1E, interesting.) Of course, if you go Vinten head, you have to go Vinten sticks (you can try "mix and match", but don't be suprised if it all goes sour). I fear you are between a rock and a very hard place with this, there is currently not a "one size fits all" solution that I can think of for those two camera's, apart from the V3, and it's counterbalance is pretty hit and miss, as it is with all "stepped" systems. As I said at the start, wacky is the word. CS

August 11th, 2009, 02:46 AM	#7
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	Just ordered FSB6 /2MD Hi Last week I ordered the tripod system you have been looking at, the Sachtler FSB6 / 2MD. For me it's an investment which I hope will work for a long time in the future. My present tripod is a Manfrotto 190BWB, which actually is a photo tripod, and a Manfrotto 503 head. I've never liked the 503 head and no matter what Manfrotto says, it's not a fluid head. It's very hard to set a descent drag as it's not adjustable in steps but by friction. The friction, at least on my head, changes if I pan with the head and by rotating it I can feel that friction changes during a loop. It has an irritating bounce back during pan and tilt, even with almost zero drag. It's almost impossible to start a pan or tilt smooth. The grease inside it makes noice. The counter balance is not adjustable and makes the camcorder go back to horisontal position if drag is to low and if I set drag higher it makes the head to bounce back. I don't know if the new 503HDV head is better, some people seems to like it, some people don't. The tripod sticks, 190BWB, is not especially steady but I can't blame Manfrotto for that though it's a photo tripod and probably not ment to be used for panning and tilting a heavy camcorder (Canon XH-A1). What is worse is that I had the opportunity to try the rigidity on a Manfrotto 525MVB tripod with a ground spreader. It was better than my 190BWB but much worse than I ever could imagine for a tripod that costs $450 without head. The reason I went for a Sachtler is that I wanted an adjustable counter balance system for a camcorder with low COG (Center Of Gravity). Studying the curves for the FSB6 head shows that my XH-A1 falls within the limits for it's counter balance system and also have enough room for added weight for my needs in the future. Sorry Chris, but Vinten V3AS is to expensive and for camcorders with higher COG which you describe in your review. A Sachtler system is expensive an I have saved money a while to afford it. I don't make money on filming, it's my hobby but I want serious equipment. I don't want to go the expensive "upgrade route", buying equipment that will dissapoint me and which other people more or less has warned about. Buying cheap is expensive in the long run. Hopefully I can make some kind of review on the Sachtler FSB6 / 2MD system when it arrives to me. Regards, /Bo

August 10th, 2009, 09:43 PM	#1
Gabroo Singh Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Modesto, CA Posts: 26	Tripod/Head for Sony Z1U & 5dMii - Sachtler 0473 FSB-6 good enough? Hello all, I've read through many, many posts re: tripod, head recommendations and thought the Bogen 532 w/ 503 head was the combo that seemed to be recommended most. This was until I read this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/tripod-st...y-why-why.html The gist of this thread was that too many people ask which tripod/head is good, only to disregard the info/expertise of people that have experience with tripod/head combo. In the above thread, Les Nagy wrote, "In the past a Manfrotto 503 head was OK for SD footage. HD footage shows errant movement much more, so what was adequate in the past isn't quite so anymore." Being that I'm going to shoot HD w/ the Z1U & 5dmii, it sounds as though I may need to consider spending a bit more so that I don't end up hating my setup and buying the more expensive one (that I should have in the first place). Although the thread indicated mentioned the ~$1400 range as the sweet spot, it didn't mention the recommended setup. With that being said, is this setup better for me (for use w/ both Z1U & 5DMii): Sachtler \| 0473 FSB-6 Aluminum Tripod System \| 0473 \| B&H Photo It is the Sachtler 0473 FSB-6 Aluminum Tripod System - consists of: FSB-6 Fluid Head, 2-Stage Tripod, Mid-Level Spreader and Padded Case for $1430

August 10th, 2009, 10:37 PM	#2
Les Nagy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: A Canadian in Canada, and sometimes Chile Posts: 265	Yup, you got it! That would be a nice setup. If you want to spend just a bit more I can highly recommend this as very convenient to use. I have the legs with an FSB-8. Sachtler \| 0475 FSB-6 Carbon Fiber Tripod System \| 0475 \| B&H You are picking a good setup and won't regret it. The only problem is people who buy the right stuff the first time and save money in the long run don't get a chance to see how bad the usual first choices are.

August 10th, 2009, 11:52 PM	#4
Gabroo Singh Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Modesto, CA Posts: 26	Man, now I'm confused.... I just read this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/tripod-st...uirements.html In this thread it sounds as though I would need the Vinten Vision 3 in oder to counterbalance the 5dMii V3AP1 Vinten Vision 3 Tripod System, with Vision 3 Fluid Head, Single-Stage Aluminum Pozi-Loc Tripod, On-Ground Spreader & Soft Case, Supports 22 lbs Any thoughts?

August 11th, 2009, 12:33 AM	#5
Les Nagy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: A Canadian in Canada, and sometimes Chile Posts: 265	First off, dollies like the ones you have pointed out are only good on smooooooth floors like painted perfect concrete ones. Anything else and you won't get smooth dolly shots. Even then these are mainly meant for fast positioning of a camera and not really meant for dolly moves. If you want moves, better to build yourself a skateboard wheel and conduit track system for peanuts. The Vinten system you listed is the old one I believe and has no advantage over the FSB-6. The new Vinten AS3 is a very nice system and has the advantage of being able to be infinitely adjusted for counterbalance. Vinten \| V3AS-AP1M Vision Pozi-Loc Aluminum Tripod \| V3AS-AP1M It is also much more expensive. The FSB-6 should make you happy but it might have counterbalance that doesn't quite exactly match the weight of the camera. there are ways to cheat with this and one of them is adding a bit of weight if needed. I doubt you will find it necessary. The CF legs are probably stiffer even though they are lighter. I do not know for sure because I have not tried the aluminum legs myself. The other main advantage to the speed lock legs is how quick and easy it is to set height on the legs in a rush. It's hard to explain, you just have to try it.