tripod for hpx500 wi/ mattebox at DVinfo.net

Spike Spiegel · December 18th, 2008, 03:16 PM

Hi there! I'm a complete tripod noob; the best i've used is the smith victor propod iv and thats probably a no-brander to most of you... The tripod wasn't THAT bad but I am looking at this for the next upgrade:

Bogen/manfrotto 3193 tripod with 526 fluid head: Bogen / Manfrotto | 3193 Tripod (Black) w/526 Fluid | 526MVBKIT

Was wondering if such a setup will work for a gear setup as mentioned above.

Many thanks for input. PS, my budget is 2,000USD and can go above 500USD if needed (i know, tripods can go well over 5,000USD), if theres anything better out there for my price range, please point em out to me. Thanks.

Chris Soucy · December 18th, 2008, 07:11 PM

Sigh!

Another $20K HD camera system on a sub $2k support.

As I've just about given up trying to talk bods out of doing this, I'll tell you what little I know about your chosen setup.

Can't comment on the sticks as I've never had anything to do with a set, tho' to my mind (and I readily admit to being exceedingly biased on this subject) HD camera supports aren't up to snuff (all things being equal) unless designed for 75 lbs support weight plus.

Yours are rated at 30 lbs.

Don't be awefully suprised if those zoom shots aren't quite as steady as you'd like.

There's alarm bells going off with regard to the head.

I don't know what your camera system weighs in "full monty" mode, but the 526 head counterbalance system doesn't kick in till 17.6 lbs minimum (depending on COG, of course).

If your rig comes in under that you've just bought a heap of never ending grief.

Last, but probably not least, the head/ sticks combo weighs in at 19 lbs all up, which is a heck of a lot of metal for such poor specs.

If your total budget for a support system is $2.5K, I'm not able to confidently configure a suitable system that would do justice to that rig for the price.

CS

Spike Spiegel · December 18th, 2008, 09:55 PM

Hi Chris, thanks for the information.

I think 6k is a bit too above and beyond what we can afford; I COMPLETELY understand however you get what you pay for...

The camera with full peripherals (lens + external monitor + mattebox) should be a bit over 20lbs easy.

What can we do for 3500-4000 usd ? Any advice in that price range? THanks very much for this.

Chris Soucy · December 18th, 2008, 10:54 PM

and I mean very quick, using $4K as a guide, throws up these options.......

Cartoni | G101 Gamma Aluminum Tripod System | G101 | B&H Photo

Libec | LS-85(2C) Tripod System | LS852C | B&H Photo Video

Libec | LS-85M(2C) Tripod System | LS85M2C | B&H Photo Video

Miller | 1769 Arrow 25 Tripod System | 1769 | B&H Photo Video

Slik / Daiwa | Daiwa-15 Aluminum Tripod System | DW-15M2 | B&H

None of which exactly "do it for me" in any way shape or form.

I've done no investigation of the sticks support weight for this list, the limitation appears to be the heads.

If any of the sticks approach the 75 lbs recommended and you can find a continuously variable head to suit your weight range, all under $4K, you'll be doing well.

(I can't look myself as B&H have just taken their site down for maintenance).

CS

PS: $20K for 20 lbs - that's one heck of an expensive bit of steak you have there.

Spike Spiegel · December 18th, 2008, 11:31 PM

haha what can i say, i am putting out an order of a huge amount for a combination of hpx 500 and 170 and a bunch p2 cards, hard drives, monitors (field and broadcast) , audio gear, etc.; just a massive overhaul.

I will take a look at the 5 you mentioned offa Bhphototvideo, many thanks for this; truly appreciate it!

Chris Soucy · December 19th, 2008, 04:03 PM

further trawling of both the B&H and Manfrotto web sites has suddenly got the penny to drop as to why the systems I linked to in my last post look so odd.

Both the Manfrotto & B&H Configurators have based their decisions on standard SD camera thinking instead of new HD camera requirements.

Thus they have not taken into account things like an 8 pound HD camera having the same resolution and support needs as a 45 pound 35 mm movie camera - and I can assure you, said movie camera would not be sitting on a tripod designed for only 45 pounds!

This results in getting systems that have the worst of all worlds - woefully under specified sticks and hopelessly over specified heads, with price tags to match.

Thus why the "systems" offer such poor value for money.

You would be far better off configuring a system this way:

1. It's an HD camera, so, take my advice and go for a set of sticks with a minimum support weight of 75 pounds and a 100 mm bowl (won't be too many 75+ pounders with a 75 mm but hey).

Aim for 2 grand - ish.

Watch out for "not included" essentials like mid level spreaders, they are both indispensible and damned expensive.

2. From the same manufacturer, pick a head that has:

a. 100 mm ball base

b. Can support the "full monty" camera system weight

c. Has (preferably) continuously variable counterbalance that covers the camera weight from stark naked (but functional) to seriously over pimped.

d. Can be had for what's left of your budget after 1. above.

The reason I say "the same manufacturer" is that Vinten Vx series heads (for example) work exceedingly badly with other manufacturers sticks.

Upon reflection, you may want to do the head thing first, then the sticks, slightly more logical.

****
Well, I just took my own advice and tried it my way, I still can't get it to work properly with only $4K.

Starting with Sachtler:

I opted for the DV8 SB first, but then noticed the COG figures, which meant that there was a posibility, if your systems COG was too high (and that's quite a high camera system), your system would be too heavy for the counterbalance system.

So, up to the DV12 SB, but that's currently $2785 @ B&H, which puts you back in with the sharks as far as the sticks are concerned.

Go and have a play with the figures and see what you come up with.

I'd like to say there's room for compromise, but I can't think where.

Stint on the head and you'll be wrestling with the camera on every move.

Stint on the stick and the entire system will behave like it's got Parkinsons.

See what you come up with.

CS

December 18th, 2008, 03:16 PM	#1
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	tripod for hpx500 wi/ mattebox Hi there! I'm a complete tripod noob; the best i've used is the smith victor propod iv and thats probably a no-brander to most of you... The tripod wasn't THAT bad but I am looking at this for the next upgrade: Bogen/manfrotto 3193 tripod with 526 fluid head: Bogen / Manfrotto \| 3193 Tripod (Black) w/526 Fluid \| 526MVBKIT Was wondering if such a setup will work for a gear setup as mentioned above. Many thanks for input. PS, my budget is 2,000USD and can go above 500USD if needed (i know, tripods can go well over 5,000USD), if theres anything better out there for my price range, please point em out to me. Thanks.

December 18th, 2008, 07:11 PM	#2
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Hi Spike.................... Sigh! Another $20K HD camera system on a sub $2k support. As I've just about given up trying to talk bods out of doing this, I'll tell you what little I know about your chosen setup. Can't comment on the sticks as I've never had anything to do with a set, tho' to my mind (and I readily admit to being exceedingly biased on this subject) HD camera supports aren't up to snuff (all things being equal) unless designed for 75 lbs support weight plus. Yours are rated at 30 lbs. Don't be awefully suprised if those zoom shots aren't quite as steady as you'd like. There's alarm bells going off with regard to the head. I don't know what your camera system weighs in "full monty" mode, but the 526 head counterbalance system doesn't kick in till 17.6 lbs minimum (depending on COG, of course). If your rig comes in under that you've just bought a heap of never ending grief. Last, but probably not least, the head/ sticks combo weighs in at 19 lbs all up, which is a heck of a lot of metal for such poor specs. If your total budget for a support system is $2.5K, I'm not able to confidently configure a suitable system that would do justice to that rig for the price. CS

December 18th, 2008, 10:54 PM	#4
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Well, a quick trawl............ and I mean very quick, using $4K as a guide, throws up these options....... Cartoni \| G101 Gamma Aluminum Tripod System \| G101 \| B&H Photo Libec \| LS-85(2C) Tripod System \| LS852C \| B&H Photo Video Libec \| LS-85M(2C) Tripod System \| LS85M2C \| B&H Photo Video Miller \| 1769 Arrow 25 Tripod System \| 1769 \| B&H Photo Video Slik / Daiwa \| Daiwa-15 Aluminum Tripod System \| DW-15M2 \| B&H None of which exactly "do it for me" in any way shape or form. I've done no investigation of the sticks support weight for this list, the limitation appears to be the heads. If any of the sticks approach the 75 lbs recommended and you can find a continuously variable head to suit your weight range, all under $4K, you'll be doing well. (I can't look myself as B&H have just taken their site down for maintenance). CS PS: $20K for 20 lbs - that's one heck of an expensive bit of steak you have there. Last edited by Chris Soucy; December 18th, 2008 at 10:58 PM. Reason: Sad attempt at humour

December 19th, 2008, 04:03 PM	#6
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Spike.............. further trawling of both the B&H and Manfrotto web sites has suddenly got the penny to drop as to why the systems I linked to in my last post look so odd. Both the Manfrotto & B&H Configurators have based their decisions on standard SD camera thinking instead of new HD camera requirements. Thus they have not taken into account things like an 8 pound HD camera having the same resolution and support needs as a 45 pound 35 mm movie camera - and I can assure you, said movie camera would not be sitting on a tripod designed for only 45 pounds! This results in getting systems that have the worst of all worlds - woefully under specified sticks and hopelessly over specified heads, with price tags to match. Thus why the "systems" offer such poor value for money. You would be far better off configuring a system this way: 1. It's an HD camera, so, take my advice and go for a set of sticks with a minimum support weight of 75 pounds and a 100 mm bowl (won't be too many 75+ pounders with a 75 mm but hey). Aim for 2 grand - ish. Watch out for "not included" essentials like mid level spreaders, they are both indispensible and damned expensive. 2. From the same manufacturer, pick a head that has: a. 100 mm ball base b. Can support the "full monty" camera system weight c. Has (preferably) continuously variable counterbalance that covers the camera weight from stark naked (but functional) to seriously over pimped. d. Can be had for what's left of your budget after 1. above. The reason I say "the same manufacturer" is that Vinten Vx series heads (for example) work exceedingly badly with other manufacturers sticks. Upon reflection, you may want to do the head thing first, then the sticks, slightly more logical. **** Well, I just took my own advice and tried it my way, I still can't get it to work properly with only $4K. Starting with Sachtler: I opted for the DV8 SB first, but then noticed the COG figures, which meant that there was a posibility, if your systems COG was too high (and that's quite a high camera system), your system would be too heavy for the counterbalance system. So, up to the DV12 SB, but that's currently $2785 @ B&H, which puts you back in with the sharks as far as the sticks are concerned. Go and have a play with the figures and see what you come up with. I'd like to say there's room for compromise, but I can't think where. Stint on the head and you'll be wrestling with the camera on every move. Stint on the stick and the entire system will behave like it's got Parkinsons. See what you come up with. CS

December 18th, 2008, 09:55 PM	#3
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	Hi Chris, thanks for the information. I think 6k is a bit too above and beyond what we can afford; I COMPLETELY understand however you get what you pay for... The camera with full peripherals (lens + external monitor + mattebox) should be a bit over 20lbs easy. What can we do for 3500-4000 usd ? Any advice in that price range? THanks very much for this.

December 18th, 2008, 11:31 PM	#5
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	haha what can i say, i am putting out an order of a huge amount for a combination of hpx 500 and 170 and a bunch p2 cards, hard drives, monitors (field and broadcast) , audio gear, etc.; just a massive overhaul. I will take a look at the 5 you mentioned offa Bhphototvideo, many thanks for this; truly appreciate it!