Michael Moore's Oscar Speech

Alex Taylor · March 24th, 2003, 05:33 PM

I'm sure they're sent into a warzone with more than one spare camera anyway ;)

Will Fastie · March 24th, 2003, 10:09 PM

I'm just sort of dumbfounded that "Bowling for Columbine" won over "Winged Migration."

March 24th, 2003, 10:23 PM

>I'm just sort of dumbfounded that "Bowling for Columbine" won over "Winged Migration."<

Me, too. But since the feature film (Get Goosed) I'm finishing the editing on right now is about an old Native American man and his best friend, a Canada Goose, I guess I'm not as objective as most folks would be.

Production stills at: http://www.centralcolorado.com/newcomb

Bob Zimmerman · March 25th, 2003, 03:18 AM

He should have won for best lying in a documentary. he splices and edits to make a story. I should say to make his point. His far left wing point and since this is a video board it should be pointed out that people can use video to stress their views. Right or wrong. A edit here. A edit there. A voice over. The next thing you know, you have a fake documentary.

Kenn Jolemore · March 25th, 2003, 06:11 AM

Sounds like sour grapes Bob.Its more than evident that there are many people who like what Moore does work wise , enough so that he won an award this year. As to his politics they are his, no one could have though you could get one without the other as he has made his living espousing his views.
2)being a vet from the 70's myself I am glad we live in a country where you can say what you feel unlike Iraq and many other places in the world and still wake up in your own bed in the morning and I would not have it any other way.
KennJ

Will Fastie · March 25th, 2003, 08:22 AM

Actually, the voters in the Academy represent a very small group of people that bears very little resemblance to average Americans. I wish I could be sure that small group really believed "Columbine" was the best choice, but I admit suspicion.

Getting back to the speech, Moore can say what he likes and produce what he likes. This is not about the content of his speech but rather about civility. The Academy directly and strongly asked its members not to engage in that sort of thing, just as this forum asks the same. Moore ignored the request and thus behaved badly.

Here the penalty is the swift removal of content, a reprimand, and possibly expulsion. What was Moore's penalty?

There is a time and place for everything.

Wayne Orr · March 25th, 2003, 09:32 AM

<<<-- There is a time and place for everything. -->>>

And Mr. Moore felt that the Award ceremony was exactly the place when the most people would be watching and listening to what he had to say. How many of you heard what he had to say about the other documentarians joining him for his protest at the post-awards press conference? Very, very few, I would guess.

He used his two minutes of fame to address something he felt very passionately about, and showed the world some celebrities have other things on their mind than thanking their lawyers and agents, as Moore also pointed out in his press conference.

He spoke for many of us, and gave voice to our opinions that are being ignored by much of the media as they march off to war. There are many organizations in this country that wanted this war, and in my opinion, that includes most members of the media. Who will be the next "Scud Stud?" Vile.

Jay Gladwell · March 25th, 2003, 09:47 AM

I vehemently disagree with everything Michael Moore and Wayne Orr have to say on the subject. In my mind, there is no difference between Michael Moore (and others of his ilk) and Leni Riefenstahl. Moore lied in his press conference. He claimed that only 4 or 5 people booed him. All anyone has to do is listen to the clip. It was far, far more than 4 or 5 people booing him during his vomiting of propaganda.

And, like Will Fastie, I was totally shocked that "Bowling for Columbine" beat out "Winged Migration."

Bob Zimmerman · March 25th, 2003, 11:00 AM

We all have freedom of speech and a person can make up storys. But we should be worried about the truth also. Since we all are in the video business in one way or another or want to be, we should worry about people who make documentaries that are really propaganda! Bowling For Columbine was filled with lies to make his point and I'm not surprized that a bunch of limousine liberals from hollywood would give him a award for that.

Jay Gladwell · March 25th, 2003, 11:15 AM

I agree with you, Bob, and that's why this is, I think, a fair issue for this forum. Filmmakers in general, and documentarians in particular, exercise "freedom of speech" through their work. However, with that freedom comes the _responsiblity_ to be honest and truthful. Michael Moore has shown, in both his work and in his words during his press conference, that he is neither. His lack of integrity is so blatant that I cannot take either the man or his films seriously.

Nathan Gifford · March 25th, 2003, 12:22 PM

I am always surprised when Moore's work wins critical acclaim. However, he's got enough talent to put together enough film, enough artistry to incorporate unique theme, and enough savvy to write and promote a interesting title for his movie.

Notice I never said there was enough truth to really call them documentaries.

Wayne Orr · March 25th, 2003, 02:29 PM

What is indeed unfortunate is that we cannot have a reasonable discussion of Mr. Moore's actions without resulting to slurs such as "vomiting of propaganda," "limousine liberals," and "lack of integrity." Certainly you are all entitled to your opinion, and I might find it has more merit were it not couched in inflammatory rhetoric.

As to Mr. Moore's responsibility to tell the truth; would that be as he sees it or you see it? Having a point of view does not make you a liar. Just unpopular. Am I a liar? No, but I'll bet I'm unpopular, judging by the posts.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Notice there is no mention that you must "tell the truth." Certainly our government knew that when we waged war in Vietnam.

Jay Gladwell · March 25th, 2003, 02:46 PM

Wayne, what has been said here is no different than what was said Sunday night, in a non-political forum, but you there you found the remarks "invigorating."

You're right, having a particular point of view does not make one a liar. But not telling the truth does. Michael Moore lied, hence he is a liar. He has shown his lack of integrity--his fault, not mine.

If I have a right to my opinion, then I also have the right to couch it any way I may see fit, as do you. I say what I think using language that leaves no room for misinterpretation.

Joe Carney · March 25th, 2003, 02:49 PM

When a former employee of Moores' was interested in doing a documentary on Moore himself, Moore threatened to sue the guy.
And his putting a wreath on Charlton Hestons door was pure grandstanding. Maybe Pauline Kael was right? he is nothing more than a put down artist? then again....

I remember his short lived show on Bravo. He is just too precious and impressed with himself. But he does what he does welll, that is, stir discussion about his behavour, not the issues he presents.

BTW, refering to his comments. A post election analasys of all votes cast in FL (ones that counted and ones that got left out) showed Bush winning by about 5000 votes. Per Miami Herald and at least one other paper whos, name I forget.

Will Fastie · March 25th, 2003, 03:33 PM

If Michael Moore stood on my front lawn and opened his mouth, I'd have him arrested. Not for what he had to say, but because he was trespassing, perfectly within my rights.

The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences is a private organization, not a public one. It has the right to set its rules for its activities, even those broadcast to the public, as it sees fit. It did. Moore ignored them. Uncivil and crass, at best.

I think I saw Moore one morning on The Today Show. I listened then. I thought he was spouting drivel, but there was nothing objectionable in the appearance. The right time and place...

March 24th, 2003, 05:33 PM	#16
Alex Taylor Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 390	I'm sure they're sent into a warzone with more than one spare camera anyway ;) __________________ alextaylor.org

March 24th, 2003, 10:23 PM	#18
Guest Posts: n/a	Michael Less >I'm just sort of dumbfounded that "Bowling for Columbine" won over "Winged Migration."< Me, too. But since the feature film (Get Goosed) I'm finishing the editing on right now is about an old Native American man and his best friend, a Canada Goose, I guess I'm not as objective as most folks would be. Production stills at: http://www.centralcolorado.com/newcomb

March 25th, 2003, 06:11 AM	#20
Kenn Jolemore Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: norfolk Va. Posts: 124	Sounds like sour grapes Bob.Its more than evident that there are many people who like what Moore does work wise , enough so that he won an award this year. As to his politics they are his, no one could have though you could get one without the other as he has made his living espousing his views. 2)being a vet from the 70's myself I am glad we live in a country where you can say what you feel unlike Iraq and many other places in the world and still wake up in your own bed in the morning and I would not have it any other way. KennJ __________________ KennJ

March 25th, 2003, 09:32 AM	#22
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	<<<-- There is a time and place for everything. -->>> And Mr. Moore felt that the Award ceremony was exactly the place when the most people would be watching and listening to what he had to say. How many of you heard what he had to say about the other documentarians joining him for his protest at the post-awards press conference? Very, very few, I would guess. He used his two minutes of fame to address something he felt very passionately about, and showed the world some celebrities have other things on their mind than thanking their lawyers and agents, as Moore also pointed out in his press conference. He spoke for many of us, and gave voice to our opinions that are being ignored by much of the media as they march off to war. There are many organizations in this country that wanted this war, and in my opinion, that includes most members of the media. Who will be the next "Scud Stud?" Vile. __________________ Wayne If it was easy, they'd get a relative to do it.

March 25th, 2003, 12:22 PM	#26
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	I am always surprised when Moore's work wins critical acclaim. However, he's got enough talent to put together enough film, enough artistry to incorporate unique theme, and enough savvy to write and promote a interesting title for his movie. Notice I never said there was enough truth to really call them documentaries. __________________ Nathan Gifford Southern Cyclist Magazine & Productions For quick answers try our Search! To see me and Rob Lohman click here

March 24th, 2003, 10:09 PM	#17
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	I'm just sort of dumbfounded that "Bowling for Columbine" won over "Winged Migration."

March 25th, 2003, 03:18 AM	#19
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	He should have won for best lying in a documentary. he splices and edits to make a story. I should say to make his point. His far left wing point and since this is a video board it should be pointed out that people can use video to stress their views. Right or wrong. A edit here. A edit there. A voice over. The next thing you know, you have a fake documentary.

March 25th, 2003, 08:22 AM	#21
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	Actually, the voters in the Academy represent a very small group of people that bears very little resemblance to average Americans. I wish I could be sure that small group really believed "Columbine" was the best choice, but I admit suspicion. Getting back to the speech, Moore can say what he likes and produce what he likes. This is not about the content of his speech but rather about civility. The Academy directly and strongly asked its members not to engage in that sort of thing, just as this forum asks the same. Moore ignored the request and thus behaved badly. Here the penalty is the swift removal of content, a reprimand, and possibly expulsion. What was Moore's penalty? There is a time and place for everything.

March 25th, 2003, 09:47 AM	#23
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	I vehemently disagree with everything Michael Moore and Wayne Orr have to say on the subject. In my mind, there is no difference between Michael Moore (and others of his ilk) and Leni Riefenstahl. Moore lied in his press conference. He claimed that only 4 or 5 people booed him. All anyone has to do is listen to the clip. It was far, far more than 4 or 5 people booing him during his vomiting of propaganda. And, like Will Fastie, I was totally shocked that "Bowling for Columbine" beat out "Winged Migration."

March 25th, 2003, 11:00 AM	#24
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	We all have freedom of speech and a person can make up storys. But we should be worried about the truth also. Since we all are in the video business in one way or another or want to be, we should worry about people who make documentaries that are really propaganda! Bowling For Columbine was filled with lies to make his point and I'm not surprized that a bunch of limousine liberals from hollywood would give him a award for that.

March 25th, 2003, 11:15 AM	#25
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	I agree with you, Bob, and that's why this is, I think, a fair issue for this forum. Filmmakers in general, and documentarians in particular, exercise "freedom of speech" through their work. However, with that freedom comes the _responsiblity_ to be honest and truthful. Michael Moore has shown, in both his work and in his words during his press conference, that he is neither. His lack of integrity is so blatant that I cannot take either the man or his films seriously.

March 25th, 2003, 02:29 PM	#27
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	What is indeed unfortunate is that we cannot have a reasonable discussion of Mr. Moore's actions without resulting to slurs such as "vomiting of propaganda," "limousine liberals," and "lack of integrity." Certainly you are all entitled to your opinion, and I might find it has more merit were it not couched in inflammatory rhetoric. As to Mr. Moore's responsibility to tell the truth; would that be as he sees it or you see it? Having a point of view does not make you a liar. Just unpopular. Am I a liar? No, but I'll bet I'm unpopular, judging by the posts. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." Notice there is no mention that you must "tell the truth." Certainly our government knew that when we waged war in Vietnam. __________________ Wayne If it was easy, they'd get a relative to do it.

March 25th, 2003, 02:46 PM	#28
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Wayne, what has been said here is no different than what was said Sunday night, in a non-political forum, but you there you found the remarks "invigorating." You're right, having a particular point of view does not make one a liar. But not telling the truth does. Michael Moore lied, hence he is a liar. He has shown his lack of integrity--his fault, not mine. If I have a right to my opinion, then I also have the right to couch it any way I may see fit, as do you. I say what I think using language that leaves no room for misinterpretation.

March 25th, 2003, 02:49 PM	#29
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	When a former employee of Moores' was interested in doing a documentary on Moore himself, Moore threatened to sue the guy. And his putting a wreath on Charlton Hestons door was pure grandstanding. Maybe Pauline Kael was right? he is nothing more than a put down artist? then again.... I remember his short lived show on Bravo. He is just too precious and impressed with himself. But he does what he does welll, that is, stir discussion about his behavour, not the issues he presents. BTW, refering to his comments. A post election analasys of all votes cast in FL (ones that counted and ones that got left out) showed Bush winning by about 5000 votes. Per Miami Herald and at least one other paper whos, name I forget.

March 25th, 2003, 03:33 PM	#30
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	If Michael Moore stood on my front lawn and opened his mouth, I'd have him arrested. Not for what he had to say, but because he was trespassing, perfectly within my rights. The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences is a private organization, not a public one. It has the right to set its rules for its activities, even those broadcast to the public, as it sees fit. It did. Moore ignored them. Uncivil and crass, at best. I think I saw Moore one morning on The Today Show. I listened then. I thought he was spouting drivel, but there was nothing objectionable in the appearance. The right time and place...