Hello, I'm a MAC... and I'm a PC

Jason Robinson · May 9th, 2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Carney

If Apple wants to get more people to convert from Windows, create ads that show people how to make money with it, not just make home movies which can be done for free on windows anyway. The whole ilife and garageband stuff is cute, but there is lots of free software out there for windows to do similar if not the same thing.

Widows guy...I make a succesful living with Windows PCs.
Mac Guy...Look at my cute home videos....and gnarly music mix...and...and..

And I don't mean FCP either.

The "cute" factor has been a major problem for me. I see Apple as advertising heavily around it's cute looks, and honestly, I hate cute looking OS'es. The first thing I do on a Win install is eliminate the ew XP look and all those stupid time waisting effects of sliding menus, etc. I want function.

That Apple has a very functional OS is not entirely lost on me. But their increased hardware costs have always been a concern. I am helping otu a guy who just bought a new G5 for video editing and it cost him $6000 from CompUSA. Granted, I think CompUSA kind of took him to the cleaners, but his system isn't even a dual CPU system and it does not have a RAID storage system. And for $6000?

I can build my own Dual Opteron with better specs than the G5 for about 2/3 the price. That has always been a bonus for me.

jason

Andrew Khalil · May 9th, 2006, 01:01 PM

I'm curious how a G5 can reach that price and not be dual CPU - even the cheapest G5 is dual CPU and a raid can be had for not much more. My G5 was 2300 Canadian last year and after warantees, upgrades, ram and stuff I''d say it's about 3500 + maybe another 600 for a 500gb external raid and that's all in CAD.

Greg Boston · May 9th, 2006, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Robinson

The "cute" factor has been a major problem for me. I see Apple as advertising heavily around it's cute looks, and honestly, I hate cute looking OS'es. The first thing I do on a Win install is eliminate the ew XP look and all those stupid time waisting effects of sliding menus, etc. I want function.

That Apple has a very functional OS is not entirely lost on me. But their increased hardware costs have always been a concern. I am helping otu a guy who just bought a new G5 for video editing and it cost him $6000 from CompUSA. Granted, I think CompUSA kind of took him to the cleaners, but his system isn't even a dual CPU system and it does not have a RAID storage system. And for $6000?

I can build my own Dual Opteron with better specs than the G5 for about 2/3 the price. That has always been a bonus for me.

jason

He must have bought the 30" cinema display to go with it and maxxed out the other options. Something doesn't sound right if he bought a single CPU Power Mac and got the price tag to 6K. Oh, wait a minute. If he bought FCP Studio for editing then that accounts for $1300 right there.

Jason is there any way you could provide the specs of this $6000.00 system?

-gb-

Adam Keen · May 9th, 2006, 04:06 PM

I have to admit I strongly prefer PCs over Macs. In my experience, Macs are not significantly better. They still have problems and won't do things without a reason. I really, really hate the colorful pinwheel of doom, formally known as the "spinning wait cursor", when that shows up, it's a lot of waiting and frequently force quit or pulling the plug. Apple doesn't think that their computers need a real reset button. Occasionally, I'll get to share some time with a Mac that actually feels like doing something.

I'm on Win98, which sucks, Apple seems to forget it exsists and didn't include support in Quicktime, so I can only get the audio for these ads. I really should get XP.

I hate the new Mac mouse. The iMac puck was weird but was okay. The cord thickness is the perfect size to get stuck under the top shell, when you try to click, it doesn't click. Real great design.

I don't like the one button mouse in general. To get the right click type functionality, you must hold down one of the keys. You have to figure out if it's the apple, control, option, or shift. Doesn't save any time.

I hate web surfing on a mac. I use Firefox, though I use tabs, I'll open new windows to seperate things. Firefox or safari on Mac makes it very difficult to manage and navigate many browser windows.

-Adam "learning Linux" Keen

Greg Boston · May 9th, 2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Keen

I have to admit I strongly prefer PCs over Macs. In my experience, Macs are not significantly better. They still have problems and won't do things without a reason. I really, really hate the colorful pinwheel of doom, formally known as the "spinning wait cursor", when that shows up, it's a lot of waiting and frequently force quit or pulling the plug. Apple doesn't think that their computers need a real reset button. Occasionally, I'll get to share some time with a Mac that actually feels like doing something.

I'm on Win98, which sucks, Apple seems to forget it exsists and didn't include support in Quicktime, so I can only get the audio for these ads. I really should get XP.

I hate the new Mac mouse. The iMac puck was weird but was okay. The cord thickness is the perfect size to get stuck under the top shell, when you try to click, it doesn't click. Real great design.

I don't like the one button mouse in general. To get the right click type functionality, you must hold down one of the keys. You have to figure out if it's the apple, control, option, or shift. Doesn't save any time.

I hate web surfing on a mac. I use Firefox, though I use tabs, I'll open new windows to seperate things. Firefox or safari on Mac makes it very difficult to manage and navigate many browser windows.

-Adam "learning Linux" Keen

Adam,

You have posted several statements about the Mac which are as obsolete as Windows 98 and yes, you should upgrade to XP. Lots more security and more functionality.

That said, you don't have to use the 'one button' mouse. I hated it too and promptly replaced it with the Microsoft bluetooth mouse. I also use the Apple bluetooth wireless keyboard.

Apple now has what's called the 'Mighty Mouse' which is light years ahead of their earlier efforts. It doesn't have buttons per se, but if you push down on the right side, or left side it senses the difference. The small wheel in the center is unlike any scroll wheel but works as one just the same. Nonetheless, I still prefer the ergonomics of my 5 button Microsoft mouse. And for the record, right click emulation is called Command-click. Any other key combinations with a mouse click are for different functionality.

Firefox on my Mac works about the same as it does on my Windows machines. You can use 'expose' with the mac (I have one of my 5 mouse buttons programmed to it) and all open windows are instantly resized to fit on the screen. You click on the desired one and it comes to the front. Pretty slick once you get used to it. I had the same issue a year ago when I bought the Mac. It felt very foreign after being a PC user since the first ones came out in the early 80's.

I can also happily report that having the spinning beach ball in a locked up application doesn't usually take down the rest of the system. That's due in part to the under the hood Unix/Linux that OSX runs on top of. Since you are learning Linux, then OSX would be great for you. You can drop into terminal mode and learn all the Linux you want to.

Just a warning to the community, this thread will be locked or removed if it turns into a platform war. NO PLATFORM BASHING allowed on DVINFO! All the moderators are currently keeping an eye on this thread.

regards,

-gb-

Boyd Ostroff · May 9th, 2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

That's due in part to the under the hood Unix/Linux that OSX runs on top of. Since you are learning Linux, then OSX would be great for you. You can drop into terminal mode and learn all the Linux you want to.

Not to get picky Greg, but Linux is reverse-engineered unix. I've worked a lot with Linux and I like it, but it's a slightly different "flavor." MacOSX is real BSD Unix, just like what I used to pound on using VT-220 terminals connected to a VAX 11/750 at the blazing speed of 9600 baud ;-)

Adam: if you don't like Macs then that's fine. Just don't use them. Use whatever you like and are comfortable with.

Greg Boston · May 9th, 2006, 08:21 PM

Yeah Boyd, I was primarily saying that Unix and Linux are 'pretty similar' and that the knowledge of one would translate very well to the other with the differences you noted of course. I wasn't suggesting that OSX sits atop a Linux variant. Guess I didn't word it right.

-gb-

Adam Keen · May 10th, 2006, 09:04 PM

I've used the mighty mouse, still has the cord getting stuck under the front problem. I use expose, but I find it inconvenient to move my hand to the function keys.

Back to the ads, I think the 'switch' ones were better. Comparing PCs and Macs from the people who make Macs. Obviously, it's going to be biased and trying to sell you a Mac. Take the 'network' ad, one, digital cameras are not networking. Two, pull out the card stick it in a card reader. Three, I have seen cams with windows but not mac drivers, so far, not the other way.

"iLife" Windows has media player built in. But, who cares about bundled when you can choose from loads of programs to suit your needs.

"Restarting" XP is really stable. People get excellent uptimes.

"Viruses" So get some antivirus software, not a big deal.

-Adam "is it bashing if it's true?" Keen

Andrew Khalil · May 10th, 2006, 10:23 PM

sorry, I'm never one to argue, but I think I will (in a friendly way of course).

iLife: Windows doesn't come with anything for creating media. Movie Maker can't do half of what iMovie can do and there is no equivalent to iDVD and Garagband that come with Windows - in terms of being media friendly right out of the box, Mac wins hands down.

Restarting: I only speak from experience and I don't talk about things I have never used, but in my experience, XP is far from being stable. Now, I'm not saying Mac OSX is 100% there, but it's definitly leaps ahead of Windows.

Viruses: Sure you could get antivirus software and always worry about keeping it up to date and in some cases paying every year for it. Or you can get a Mac and not worry about it at all.

In terms of compatibility, I can't think of specific examples (please tell us which cameras you say don't have Mac drivers) and I don't doubt they exist, but I can pretty much say with confidence that anything unavailable for Mac will have an equivalent and some of the best software programs in existance are not available for Windows, so it goes both ways. In terms of a card reader, you're right and that's actually what I use and couldn't care less about plugging the camera into the computer.

Joe Carney · May 11th, 2006, 12:49 PM

>>Viruses: Sure you could get antivirus software and always worry about keeping it up to date and in some cases paying every year for it. Or you can get a Mac and not worry about it at all.
<<

Macs are being targeted now. Make no mistake, and Apple has been worse than MS when dealing with known weaknesses. The honeymoon is over sad to say.

David Jimerson · May 11th, 2006, 01:23 PM

Apple has been trading for years on the idea that the majority of people who use computers are stupid, need everything done for them, and want to operate inside something that looks like a cartoon. Frankly, I find it condescending.

Could explain Apple's massive market share.

David Jimerson · May 11th, 2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Khalil

Viruses: Sure you could get antivirus software and always worry about keeping it up to date and in some cases paying every year for it. Or you can get a Mac and not worry about it at all.

Or, you could just be careful about which e-mails you open and which web pages you visit. BAM! Problem solved.

Steven Gotz · May 11th, 2006, 01:27 PM

Personally, I think they make a mistake with the Clock and the Calculator thing. Windows XP comes with a free video editing program too. People know this and therefore are inclined not to believe anything else that is said. Apple should know better.

There is nothing wrong with using a Mac. But it takes a lot to change over, and they need to prove the value. That can't do that by omitting pertinent facts.

Meryem Ersoz · May 11th, 2006, 01:56 PM

but i *am* stupid and want to operate inside something that looks like a cartoon....gotta problem with that?

and now, even better, they've baked juvenilia right into the computer! the latest macbook pro has a little photo booth function that shoots a cartoon special effect using the built-in isite camera. i walked around the house converting the dog, the cat, my furniture, into cartoons. fun times for dolts like me! it's brilliant. in a completely stupid sort of way. i can hardly wait for the next DV Challenge. i may have to figure out a way to bring that feature into my next thrilling adventure in short narrative film.

if you're an over-forty comic book geek, it's like a dream come true....

John Hudson · May 12th, 2006, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Papert

I vote for Virus and Network myself. It slays me when PC gets jealous over Mac being able to talk in Japanese to the "digital camera" girl..."Bonjourno...hello...?"

But then I watched the iLife one again, and that's killer too. Great campaign. So simple and so well done.

Hi Charles ! Long time !

You really like this campaign ? I find it creative and aggressive but wonder who really is buying it ? We're all familiar with the PC / MAC debate's but I find it bizarre that Apple themself would be pimping this propaganda.

And David is absolutely correct; it is this type of marketing that brings out the 'pretentious arse' Mac user (Relax, unless you are a pretentious arse, you should'nt be offened by that comment).

Both OS's do the same thing in the end and it is most often than not, Operator Error that brings your system crashing down.

I ask again:

With less than 4% of the worlds market share, who is buying this nonsesne ?

May 11th, 2006, 12:49 PM	#25
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	>>Viruses: Sure you could get antivirus software and always worry about keeping it up to date and in some cases paying every year for it. Or you can get a Mac and not worry about it at all. << Macs are being targeted now. Make no mistake, and Apple has been worse than MS when dealing with known weaknesses. The honeymoon is over sad to say. __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

May 11th, 2006, 01:23 PM	#26
David Jimerson Jubal 28 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 872	Apple has been trading for years on the idea that the majority of people who use computers are stupid, need everything done for them, and want to operate inside something that looks like a cartoon. Frankly, I find it condescending. Could explain Apple's massive market share. __________________ www.wrightsvillebeachstudios.com

May 11th, 2006, 01:27 PM	#28
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Personally, I think they make a mistake with the Clock and the Calculator thing. Windows XP comes with a free video editing program too. People know this and therefore are inclined not to believe anything else that is said. Apple should know better. There is nothing wrong with using a Mac. But it takes a lot to change over, and they need to prove the value. That can't do that by omitting pertinent facts. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

May 9th, 2006, 01:01 PM	#17
Andrew Khalil Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 424	I'm curious how a G5 can reach that price and not be dual CPU - even the cheapest G5 is dual CPU and a raid can be had for not much more. My G5 was 2300 Canadian last year and after warantees, upgrades, ram and stuff I''d say it's about 3500 + maybe another 600 for a 500gb external raid and that's all in CAD.

May 9th, 2006, 04:06 PM	#19
Adam Keen Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 49	I have to admit I strongly prefer PCs over Macs. In my experience, Macs are not significantly better. They still have problems and won't do things without a reason. I really, really hate the colorful pinwheel of doom, formally known as the "spinning wait cursor", when that shows up, it's a lot of waiting and frequently force quit or pulling the plug. Apple doesn't think that their computers need a real reset button. Occasionally, I'll get to share some time with a Mac that actually feels like doing something. I'm on Win98, which sucks, Apple seems to forget it exsists and didn't include support in Quicktime, so I can only get the audio for these ads. I really should get XP. I hate the new Mac mouse. The iMac puck was weird but was okay. The cord thickness is the perfect size to get stuck under the top shell, when you try to click, it doesn't click. Real great design. I don't like the one button mouse in general. To get the right click type functionality, you must hold down one of the keys. You have to figure out if it's the apple, control, option, or shift. Doesn't save any time. I hate web surfing on a mac. I use Firefox, though I use tabs, I'll open new windows to seperate things. Firefox or safari on Mac makes it very difficult to manage and navigate many browser windows. -Adam "learning Linux" Keen

May 9th, 2006, 08:21 PM	#22
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Yeah Boyd, I was primarily saying that Unix and Linux are 'pretty similar' and that the knowledge of one would translate very well to the other with the differences you noted of course. I wasn't suggesting that OSX sits atop a Linux variant. Guess I didn't word it right. -gb-

May 10th, 2006, 09:04 PM	#23
Adam Keen Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 49	I've used the mighty mouse, still has the cord getting stuck under the front problem. I use expose, but I find it inconvenient to move my hand to the function keys. Back to the ads, I think the 'switch' ones were better. Comparing PCs and Macs from the people who make Macs. Obviously, it's going to be biased and trying to sell you a Mac. Take the 'network' ad, one, digital cameras are not networking. Two, pull out the card stick it in a card reader. Three, I have seen cams with windows but not mac drivers, so far, not the other way. "iLife" Windows has media player built in. But, who cares about bundled when you can choose from loads of programs to suit your needs. "Restarting" XP is really stable. People get excellent uptimes. "Viruses" So get some antivirus software, not a big deal. -Adam "is it bashing if it's true?" Keen

May 10th, 2006, 10:23 PM	#24
Andrew Khalil Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 424	sorry, I'm never one to argue, but I think I will (in a friendly way of course). iLife: Windows doesn't come with anything for creating media. Movie Maker can't do half of what iMovie can do and there is no equivalent to iDVD and Garagband that come with Windows - in terms of being media friendly right out of the box, Mac wins hands down. Restarting: I only speak from experience and I don't talk about things I have never used, but in my experience, XP is far from being stable. Now, I'm not saying Mac OSX is 100% there, but it's definitly leaps ahead of Windows. Viruses: Sure you could get antivirus software and always worry about keeping it up to date and in some cases paying every year for it. Or you can get a Mac and not worry about it at all. In terms of compatibility, I can't think of specific examples (please tell us which cameras you say don't have Mac drivers) and I don't doubt they exist, but I can pretty much say with confidence that anything unavailable for Mac will have an equivalent and some of the best software programs in existance are not available for Windows, so it goes both ways. In terms of a card reader, you're right and that's actually what I use and couldn't care less about plugging the camera into the computer.

May 11th, 2006, 01:56 PM	#29
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	but i am stupid and want to operate inside something that looks like a cartoon....gotta problem with that? and now, even better, they've baked juvenilia right into the computer! the latest macbook pro has a little photo booth function that shoots a cartoon special effect using the built-in isite camera. i walked around the house converting the dog, the cat, my furniture, into cartoons. fun times for dolts like me! it's brilliant. in a completely stupid sort of way. i can hardly wait for the next DV Challenge. i may have to figure out a way to bring that feature into my next thrilling adventure in short narrative film. if you're an over-forty comic book geek, it's like a dream come true....