Michael Moore... at DVinfo.net

Dustin Waits · February 4th, 2004, 10:55 AM

Are any of you fans of his documentaries? I have only seen two of them (Bowling for Columbine and Roger and Me) so I don't really know much about him. Though I thought they were excellent. Makes me want to go out and document the life on Ft. Myers Beach. It would make a really good documentary but theres that whole getting jumped/ gear getting stolen/ police harrassing me thing (I live in a shady town). Anyways just curious if anyone else here likes his films.

Rob Belics · February 4th, 2004, 11:00 AM

I don't agree with a lot of things he says but he does bring up some very interesting points and thought provoking information.

Alex Taylor · February 4th, 2004, 12:00 PM

He may twist facts a bit, but as long as you take his stuff with a grain of salt and agree that they're just his opinions, his movies are very enjoyable. Hilarious, too!

Keith Loh · February 4th, 2004, 12:40 PM

I wouldn't call them documentaries. More like propaganda, but he satisfies the first rule of making a film: engagement. I was about to use the word "entertainment" as Moore's films are entertaining, but I think "engagement" is the best word.

Nathan Gifford · February 4th, 2004, 12:44 PM

You can still do it, just get the clearances first and you shouldn't have (m)any problems.

Moore has managed to cut himself a little niche. He also shows that he knows how and where to market himself. So be careful when you copy or adapt his style, because you may find it there is only room for Moore.

Shawn Mielke · February 4th, 2004, 03:45 PM

Don't worry about whether Moore's films are "documentary" or not. In Bowling, he presented himself as a curious citizen who followed his train of thought wherever it led him. It didn't try to be objective at all, he was very plain about that. Moore is about dialogue, not exact science. Also, he doesn't own the game, that of concerned citizens exploring the world around them through the medium of film/moving pictures. If you are interested in something, and wish to explore it, documenting your feelings/findings/experiences along the way, with DV, or writing, or whatever, go for it, Dustin, absolutely.

Sharon Fraats · February 5th, 2004, 01:11 PM

However you look at it HE made fun of people who use rifles for sport or that it's a part of their life. Most of them would not watch his movie knowing this the populace of America would see this and most being from the city would think “Hey! Look at those nuts giving a rifle away at a bank!” Yeah it looks rather weird matter of fact ironic in a way, YET! We don’t live there so we should not judge them or compare our lives to them.

Rob Belics · February 5th, 2004, 02:10 PM

To show his one-sided views, you heard him ask why there are so many more incidents involving guns in the US even though Canada has a very high ownership also. His implication, I believe, is getting rid of the guns would reduce this. But looking at it from the other side you might wonder if it would since Canada does not have that problem.

I bring that up to show the two sides. I DO NOT want to get into the gun issue.

Kevin Burnfield · February 5th, 2004, 02:45 PM

No, it was a legit question.

The statistics he showed in the film about not only the death by shooting rate in Candana were correct but so were the ones for the rest of the other countries.

It's a damn interesting question why in other countries where gun ownership is just about as high as in the US there aren't as many deaths by them.

I don't think for a second he was saying that getting rid of guns would solve that problem--- but if the US had as low a death by gun rate as canada it wouldn't be an issue.

When you have the numbers right in front of you and they are so different it really does make you wonder and ask why from a sociology point of view.

Keith Loh · February 5th, 2004, 03:19 PM

Bob, he actually does go forward from that question when he brings up the fact that Canadian gun ownership is as high or higher than in the U.S. He also shows that he was a gun owner and was brought up as a shooter. So he does say that it isn't gun ownership. After this he goes onto the rant about American culture.

People have to see the film to see what we are talking about.

Dustin Waits · February 5th, 2004, 11:21 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Keith Loh : Bob, he actually does go forward from that question when he brings up the fact that Canadian gun ownership is as high or higher than in the U.S. He also shows that he was a gun owner and was brought up as a shooter. So he does say that it isn't gun ownership. After this he goes onto the rant about American culture.

People have to see the film to see what we are talking about. -->>>

Yes exactly. There is a breaking point in the film when he comes to a conclusion that its not the gun ownerships in our country, but instead, the culture and the way we live, and the way the press teaches us to live.

Joe Gioielli · February 6th, 2004, 12:30 PM

POV on his intended message aside, I think that if you have a story to tell, tell it. If you live in a shady part of town where you are afraid your gear will get lifted, get cheap gear.

Can you get maybe an old camcorder at a pawn shop. Hi-8? Something small and unobtrusive...Maybe VHS? The cameras are bigger but cheaper. The image quality may be low, but if the story you want to tell is gritty and run down, use that.

To avoid the cops, get a buddy to post look out. It works for the scum that sell drugs, it'll work for you. If stopped, lie. Tell them you are just taking home movies. Be nice, be polite, carry id. Do what the cop tells you, till he's gone. Then finish your business.

Just get a good story. That's more important than video quality. Make the story and the hardware match.

Imran Zaidi · February 6th, 2004, 01:13 PM

One of the best things you can ever do as an indie filmmaker of any type, is make friends with at least one police officer. Do it anyway you can, and do any favors you need to in order to earn that friendship. Even if it just means being a friendly face and saying hi to the one that you see on occasion. Work your way in!

It will help you deal with permitting problems, and will help keep you out of trouble, and will keep you out of the line of sight of these well-meaning enforcers of the law.

They just need to make sure you're not up to no good on their watch, and if you're cool with them on a personal level, you are golden.

Dustin Waits · February 6th, 2004, 01:20 PM

I found a solution. I have a few friends who were body builders. They will follow me around when I decide to shoot the video.

Jeff Patnaude · July 1st, 2004, 10:08 AM

I didn't see "Bowling For Columbine," but I loved his first movie and his series that he had on tv for awhile.

However,
I'm troubled that he is twisting facts, and basically being dishonest about things in his film "Farenheit 911." It smacks of a political agenda, as did his Cannes award (dont get me started on the french right now). He's become a spin doctor- as bad or worse than the ones he critisizes. Its a bummer to me, becausee I sure liked his sense of humor--before.

J Patnaude :>(

February 4th, 2004, 10:55 AM	#1
Dustin Waits Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ft. Myers Beach, Fl Posts: 243	Michael Moore... Are any of you fans of his documentaries? I have only seen two of them (Bowling for Columbine and Roger and Me) so I don't really know much about him. Though I thought they were excellent. Makes me want to go out and document the life on Ft. Myers Beach. It would make a really good documentary but theres that whole getting jumped/ gear getting stolen/ police harrassing me thing (I live in a shady town). Anyways just curious if anyone else here likes his films.

February 4th, 2004, 12:00 PM	#3
Alex Taylor Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 390	He may twist facts a bit, but as long as you take his stuff with a grain of salt and agree that they're just his opinions, his movies are very enjoyable. Hilarious, too! __________________ alextaylor.org

February 4th, 2004, 12:40 PM	#4
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	I wouldn't call them documentaries. More like propaganda, but he satisfies the first rule of making a film: engagement. I was about to use the word "entertainment" as Moore's films are entertaining, but I think "engagement" is the best word. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

February 4th, 2004, 12:44 PM	#5
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	You can still do it, just get the clearances first and you shouldn't have (m)any problems. Moore has managed to cut himself a little niche. He also shows that he knows how and where to market himself. So be careful when you copy or adapt his style, because you may find it there is only room for Moore. __________________ Nathan Gifford Southern Cyclist Magazine & Productions For quick answers try our Search! To see me and Rob Lohman click here

February 4th, 2004, 03:45 PM	#6
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Don't worry about whether Moore's films are "documentary" or not. In Bowling, he presented himself as a curious citizen who followed his train of thought wherever it led him. It didn't try to be objective at all, he was very plain about that. Moore is about dialogue, not exact science. Also, he doesn't own the game, that of concerned citizens exploring the world around them through the medium of film/moving pictures. If you are interested in something, and wish to explore it, documenting your feelings/findings/experiences along the way, with DV, or writing, or whatever, go for it, Dustin, absolutely. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

February 4th, 2004, 11:00 AM	#2
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	I don't agree with a lot of things he says but he does bring up some very interesting points and thought provoking information.

February 5th, 2004, 01:11 PM	#7
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	However you look at it HE made fun of people who use rifles for sport or that it's a part of their life. Most of them would not watch his movie knowing this the populace of America would see this and most being from the city would think “Hey! Look at those nuts giving a rifle away at a bank!” Yeah it looks rather weird matter of fact ironic in a way, YET! We don’t live there so we should not judge them or compare our lives to them.

February 5th, 2004, 02:10 PM	#8
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	To show his one-sided views, you heard him ask why there are so many more incidents involving guns in the US even though Canada has a very high ownership also. His implication, I believe, is getting rid of the guns would reduce this. But looking at it from the other side you might wonder if it would since Canada does not have that problem. I bring that up to show the two sides. I DO NOT want to get into the gun issue.

February 5th, 2004, 02:45 PM	#9
Kevin Burnfield Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 363	No, it was a legit question. The statistics he showed in the film about not only the death by shooting rate in Candana were correct but so were the ones for the rest of the other countries. It's a damn interesting question why in other countries where gun ownership is just about as high as in the US there aren't as many deaths by them. I don't think for a second he was saying that getting rid of guns would solve that problem--- but if the US had as low a death by gun rate as canada it wouldn't be an issue. When you have the numbers right in front of you and they are so different it really does make you wonder and ask why from a sociology point of view.

February 5th, 2004, 03:19 PM	#10
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	Bob, he actually does go forward from that question when he brings up the fact that Canadian gun ownership is as high or higher than in the U.S. He also shows that he was a gun owner and was brought up as a shooter. So he does say that it isn't gun ownership. After this he goes onto the rant about American culture. People have to see the film to see what we are talking about. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

February 5th, 2004, 11:21 PM	#11
Dustin Waits Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ft. Myers Beach, Fl Posts: 243	<<<-- Originally posted by Keith Loh : Bob, he actually does go forward from that question when he brings up the fact that Canadian gun ownership is as high or higher than in the U.S. He also shows that he was a gun owner and was brought up as a shooter. So he does say that it isn't gun ownership. After this he goes onto the rant about American culture. People have to see the film to see what we are talking about. -->>> Yes exactly. There is a breaking point in the film when he comes to a conclusion that its not the gun ownerships in our country, but instead, the culture and the way we live, and the way the press teaches us to live.

February 6th, 2004, 12:30 PM	#12
Joe Gioielli Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Port Richey, Fl Posts: 142	POV on his intended message aside, I think that if you have a story to tell, tell it. If you live in a shady part of town where you are afraid your gear will get lifted, get cheap gear. Can you get maybe an old camcorder at a pawn shop. Hi-8? Something small and unobtrusive...Maybe VHS? The cameras are bigger but cheaper. The image quality may be low, but if the story you want to tell is gritty and run down, use that. To avoid the cops, get a buddy to post look out. It works for the scum that sell drugs, it'll work for you. If stopped, lie. Tell them you are just taking home movies. Be nice, be polite, carry id. Do what the cop tells you, till he's gone. Then finish your business. Just get a good story. That's more important than video quality. Make the story and the hardware match. __________________ Why ask me? I thought you were in charge!

February 6th, 2004, 01:13 PM	#13
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	One of the best things you can ever do as an indie filmmaker of any type, is make friends with at least one police officer. Do it anyway you can, and do any favors you need to in order to earn that friendship. Even if it just means being a friendly face and saying hi to the one that you see on occasion. Work your way in! It will help you deal with permitting problems, and will help keep you out of trouble, and will keep you out of the line of sight of these well-meaning enforcers of the law. They just need to make sure you're not up to no good on their watch, and if you're cool with them on a personal level, you are golden.

February 6th, 2004, 01:20 PM	#14
Dustin Waits Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ft. Myers Beach, Fl Posts: 243	I found a solution. I have a few friends who were body builders. They will follow me around when I decide to shoot the video.

July 1st, 2004, 10:08 AM	#15
Jeff Patnaude Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Duluth, Georgia Posts: 248	I didn't see "Bowling For Columbine," but I loved his first movie and his series that he had on tv for awhile. However, I'm troubled that he is twisting facts, and basically being dishonest about things in his film "Farenheit 911." It smacks of a political agenda, as did his Cannes award (dont get me started on the french right now). He's become a spin doctor- as bad or worse than the ones he critisizes. Its a bummer to me, becausee I sure liked his sense of humor--before. J Patnaude :>(