Digital Video Projectors

Yi Fong Yu · January 18th, 2005, 08:17 PM

just trying to get down with the cowboys =).

yesh, i hope pats win superbowl this year, it'll make redsox's win even better.

Mike Butler · January 18th, 2005, 10:55 PM

Yee Haa! ride'em cowboy!

Yes, looking good against the Steelers.

As for the Sox, congrats on that, I'm closer to NYC so I'm a Yanks fan, but you guys earned it. (Anyway, 26 World Series wins is a little ostentatious, right?)

Anyway, keep us abreast of new projectors in the sub-millionnaire market. :-)

I'm betting on something cool in the DLP realm real soon.

cheers
m

Yi Fong Yu · January 18th, 2005, 11:40 PM

i was just @local staples and saw really really small projectors. do these mini FPs do as well as their big bros?

Mike Butler · January 19th, 2005, 09:55 AM

If you are talking the really itty-bitty projectors, you have traditionally paid a premium for the convenience of tucking one in your briefcase, although it's getting better. They (Staples) do have one "normal size" projector that looks fairly interesting, the Optoma EZ Pro 750. It's DLP, XGA, 1600 lumens, 600:1 contrast and has a 3-year warranty and costs $1499. Of course, I have never tried one to see how it performs in real life, and have no idea of its quality or reliability. Maybe there are some real-world users who can comment on it.

One thing I find unappealing about almost all of them is the excruciating price of replacement bulbs, like $400-500! There was one exception that I recall, I think it was a CTX brand that used a simple reflector halogen bulb that you can get at Home Depot for about $15. But I don't know if this brand is available anymore or whether it is any good. The specs looked pretty good for the money.

Yi Fong Yu · January 19th, 2005, 11:47 PM

well aren't they ALL $400+?

Mike Butler · January 20th, 2005, 09:40 AM

Well, ALMOST all of them. I can't remember the model of CTX that I found which used that plain halogen bulb. And I still know very little about Optoma or CTX and wish I could hear from some actual users.

Yi Fong Yu · January 20th, 2005, 04:01 PM

i'd like to know as well.

Boyd Ostroff · January 20th, 2005, 05:48 PM

I would definitely seek out some reviews and or user feedback before diving in here. The less expensive projectors are probably geared more towards PowerPoint presentations in the board room. They could have issues with scaling DV to their native resolutions and also might handle motion poorly. Brightness and contrast ratios are not the only things to consider. Also think about how loud the fan is. If at all possible, "audition" a few different models using some of your actual video.

I think you really want to look for units that are designed for "home theatre," and Staples may be the wrong place for that. Haven't ever looked there however so I'm just speculating...

Mike Butler · January 20th, 2005, 07:44 PM

Yeah, I'm trying real hard to find solid info from those sources. And to me, user feedback would be more credible than the manufacturer's own words or "puff piece" blurbs written by dealers looking to make the sale, or even reviews in magazines which carry advertising for these manufacturers.

Actually I am not really looking for a home theatre projector, at least not as its primary application. Using it for PowerPoint would be just the beginning, extending to use for playing back industrial & promotional videos at conferences and other gatherings, for instance. Handling of motion would, of course, be essential. It would be basically an all-around A/V workhorse, and my parameters would be quite different from those of a home-entertainment aficionado. Roadability is a major hot button for me, whereas the home projectionist would need extra-long lamp life for it to be practical for an entertainment center...two different ways of looking at reliability. Fan noise would be usually drowned out by sound reinforcement systems, thus a secondary issue. Brightness and contrast are important and easy to quantify for comparison shopping (and I wonder how easy to "lie" about), but image clarity and color handling are critical too. I wish it were easier to find ways to demo this stuff, and Staples may very well be a poor place to facilitate that.

Thanks for jumping in, Boyd. Hey! I just edited some footage of a lyric spinto soprano singing a tenor aria ("Nessun Dorma" from Turandot)...quite a "b@llsy" performance! :-)

Boyd Ostroff · January 20th, 2005, 08:25 PM

Maybe you should check out what your local A/V rental places handle? They would have a good handle on what is portable and travels well. Many of these places also do sales and might be inclined to let you do sort of a "shoot out" at their place with different units. You might pay a little more this way, but would probably have a better chance of being happy with the results. And you would also have a door to pound on if you weren't happy.

My (rather limited) experience has been with larger, more expensive projectors. We worked with a dealer/rental house/consultant that provided all these services under one roof. We were very happy in the end. My next project will involve doing video projections for Die Walkure on multiple screens for a company in South America, and this should be a challenge since I'm having a hard time getting specific info from the theatre down there.

Nessun Dorma became Pavarotti's signature piece in his "stadium concerts," which tended to cheapen it a little in my mind. But nevertheless it's a terrific aria and will always be one of my favorites.

Happy projector shopping, let us all know what you learn.

Mike Butler · January 20th, 2005, 10:26 PM

Larger, more expensive projectors? Yes, I should say so! I saw those Lightnings and Barcos you used on the Trovatore gig! A little out of my price range, to say nothing of trying to get all those 300-lb. projectors into my truck! Must be nice, though, to be able to fire up a whole opera house stage at 1600x1200.

I'll keep checking. Meanwhile, have a good show in S.A. I hope it's in Argentina where it's summer right now. :-)

"Wagner's music is better than it sounds."
--Mark Twain

Boyd Ostroff · January 21st, 2005, 08:21 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Butler : have a good show in S.A. I hope it's in Argentina where it's summer right now. :-) -->>>

Ha, ha.... it is at Teatro Colon in Buenos Aires, but I don't go down there until June and then it will be winter there!

We also have a pair of NEC LCD-GT1150 3000 lumen projectors which we use for our title projections on a screen above the stage. These are really nice units - too bad they're always tied up projecting a narrow strip of text. Again, probably overkill and more expensive than you would need.

Christopher Go · January 25th, 2005, 02:52 AM

All this talk of high end projectors is making me feel like my Infocus X1 is outdated (because it is). Yet another item to upgrade.

Not to take away from this great forum, but for some of you who are looking for more user reviews of projectors and related topics check out the Audio-Video Science Forums. Lots of info from Digital Media Servers, Theater Gaming, DVDs, screens, to HD setups, and of course those $25,000 and up projectors already mentioned.

Mike Butler · January 25th, 2005, 08:26 AM

Heh heh, me too...those ones Boyd is using are all, as he says, overkill and out-of-budget for me. Real fun to dream about though.

In this current market, I gotta think I should be able to find >2K lumens for <2K $, with decent rendering of standard TV video.

So, what is on your shopping list to replace the X1 (which was all the shiz when it first came out)?

Boyd Ostroff · January 25th, 2005, 09:22 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher Go : and of course those $25,000 and up projectors already mentioned. -->>>

Actually the 10,000 lumen variety of projectors I've mentioned are in the $125,000 range... we spent $50,000 just to rent two of them for a month :-)

January 18th, 2005, 08:17 PM	#76
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	just trying to get down with the cowboys =). yesh, i hope pats win superbowl this year, it'll make redsox's win even better. __________________ bow wow wow

January 18th, 2005, 10:55 PM	#77
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	Yee Haa! ride'em cowboy! Yes, looking good against the Steelers. As for the Sox, congrats on that, I'm closer to NYC so I'm a Yanks fan, but you guys earned it. (Anyway, 26 World Series wins is a little ostentatious, right?) Anyway, keep us abreast of new projectors in the sub-millionnaire market. :-) I'm betting on something cool in the DLP realm real soon. cheers m __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

January 18th, 2005, 11:40 PM	#78
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	i was just @local staples and saw really really small projectors. do these mini FPs do as well as their big bros? __________________ bow wow wow

January 19th, 2005, 09:55 AM	#79
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	If you are talking the really itty-bitty projectors, you have traditionally paid a premium for the convenience of tucking one in your briefcase, although it's getting better. They (Staples) do have one "normal size" projector that looks fairly interesting, the Optoma EZ Pro 750. It's DLP, XGA, 1600 lumens, 600:1 contrast and has a 3-year warranty and costs $1499. Of course, I have never tried one to see how it performs in real life, and have no idea of its quality or reliability. Maybe there are some real-world users who can comment on it. One thing I find unappealing about almost all of them is the excruciating price of replacement bulbs, like $400-500! There was one exception that I recall, I think it was a CTX brand that used a simple reflector halogen bulb that you can get at Home Depot for about $15. But I don't know if this brand is available anymore or whether it is any good. The specs looked pretty good for the money. __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

January 19th, 2005, 11:47 PM	#80
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	well aren't they ALL $400+? __________________ bow wow wow

January 20th, 2005, 09:40 AM	#81
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	Well, ALMOST all of them. I can't remember the model of CTX that I found which used that plain halogen bulb. And I still know very little about Optoma or CTX and wish I could hear from some actual users. __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

January 20th, 2005, 04:01 PM	#82
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	i'd like to know as well. __________________ bow wow wow

January 20th, 2005, 05:48 PM	#83
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,798	I would definitely seek out some reviews and or user feedback before diving in here. The less expensive projectors are probably geared more towards PowerPoint presentations in the board room. They could have issues with scaling DV to their native resolutions and also might handle motion poorly. Brightness and contrast ratios are not the only things to consider. Also think about how loud the fan is. If at all possible, "audition" a few different models using some of your actual video. I think you really want to look for units that are designed for "home theatre," and Staples may be the wrong place for that. Haven't ever looked there however so I'm just speculating...

January 20th, 2005, 07:44 PM	#84
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	Yeah, I'm trying real hard to find solid info from those sources. And to me, user feedback would be more credible than the manufacturer's own words or "puff piece" blurbs written by dealers looking to make the sale, or even reviews in magazines which carry advertising for these manufacturers. Actually I am not really looking for a home theatre projector, at least not as its primary application. Using it for PowerPoint would be just the beginning, extending to use for playing back industrial & promotional videos at conferences and other gatherings, for instance. Handling of motion would, of course, be essential. It would be basically an all-around A/V workhorse, and my parameters would be quite different from those of a home-entertainment aficionado. Roadability is a major hot button for me, whereas the home projectionist would need extra-long lamp life for it to be practical for an entertainment center...two different ways of looking at reliability. Fan noise would be usually drowned out by sound reinforcement systems, thus a secondary issue. Brightness and contrast are important and easy to quantify for comparison shopping (and I wonder how easy to "lie" about), but image clarity and color handling are critical too. I wish it were easier to find ways to demo this stuff, and Staples may very well be a poor place to facilitate that. Thanks for jumping in, Boyd. Hey! I just edited some footage of a lyric spinto soprano singing a tenor aria ("Nessun Dorma" from Turandot)...quite a "b@llsy" performance! :-) __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

January 20th, 2005, 08:25 PM	#85
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,798	Maybe you should check out what your local A/V rental places handle? They would have a good handle on what is portable and travels well. Many of these places also do sales and might be inclined to let you do sort of a "shoot out" at their place with different units. You might pay a little more this way, but would probably have a better chance of being happy with the results. And you would also have a door to pound on if you weren't happy. My (rather limited) experience has been with larger, more expensive projectors. We worked with a dealer/rental house/consultant that provided all these services under one roof. We were very happy in the end. My next project will involve doing video projections for Die Walkure on multiple screens for a company in South America, and this should be a challenge since I'm having a hard time getting specific info from the theatre down there. Nessun Dorma became Pavarotti's signature piece in his "stadium concerts," which tended to cheapen it a little in my mind. But nevertheless it's a terrific aria and will always be one of my favorites. Happy projector shopping, let us all know what you learn.

January 20th, 2005, 10:26 PM	#86
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	Larger, more expensive projectors? Yes, I should say so! I saw those Lightnings and Barcos you used on the Trovatore gig! A little out of my price range, to say nothing of trying to get all those 300-lb. projectors into my truck! Must be nice, though, to be able to fire up a whole opera house stage at 1600x1200. I'll keep checking. Meanwhile, have a good show in S.A. I hope it's in Argentina where it's summer right now. :-) "Wagner's music is better than it sounds." --Mark Twain __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

January 21st, 2005, 08:21 AM	#87
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,798	<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Butler : have a good show in S.A. I hope it's in Argentina where it's summer right now. :-) -->>> Ha, ha.... it is at Teatro Colon in Buenos Aires, but I don't go down there until June and then it will be winter there! We also have a pair of NEC LCD-GT1150 3000 lumen projectors which we use for our title projections on a screen above the stage. These are really nice units - too bad they're always tied up projecting a narrow strip of text. Again, probably overkill and more expensive than you would need.

January 25th, 2005, 02:52 AM	#88
Christopher Go Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 429	All this talk of high end projectors is making me feel like my Infocus X1 is outdated (because it is). Yet another item to upgrade. Not to take away from this great forum, but for some of you who are looking for more user reviews of projectors and related topics check out the Audio-Video Science Forums. Lots of info from Digital Media Servers, Theater Gaming, DVDs, screens, to HD setups, and of course those $25,000 and up projectors already mentioned.

January 25th, 2005, 08:26 AM	#89
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	Heh heh, me too...those ones Boyd is using are all, as he says, overkill and out-of-budget for me. Real fun to dream about though. In this current market, I gotta think I should be able to find >2K lumens for <2K $, with decent rendering of standard TV video. So, what is on your shopping list to replace the X1 (which was all the shiz when it first came out)? __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

January 25th, 2005, 09:22 AM	#90
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,798	<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher Go : and of course those $25,000 and up projectors already mentioned. -->>> Actually the 10,000 lumen variety of projectors I've mentioned are in the $125,000 range... we spent $50,000 just to rent two of them for a month :-)