Gun shot effect at DVinfo.net

Brad Simmons · July 11th, 2003, 01:59 PM

Basic question... Anyone know the best way to create the spark in After Effects from a gun when it fires? Is there a plug-in that does this type of thing?

Keith Loh · July 11th, 2003, 02:12 PM

I hope someone answers that question because I spent a number of hours trying to animate gunflares using Photoshop and AfterEffects.

I detailed what I did my Delphi forum in DVDA:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/DVDA/messages?msg=384.15 <-- you can sign on as guest.

The effect is serviceable and not the greatest as other people in the thread pointed out. Obviously, if there is a plugin out there then it would save us both more time in the future.

Brad Simmons · July 11th, 2003, 02:42 PM

thanks Keith, looks pretty good.
I just realized that I posted this in the wrong forum. Can someone move it to the PC editing forum? Thanks.

Alex Knappenberger · July 11th, 2003, 03:31 PM

Well, from my experience, IT IS pretty hard to do it effectivly.

http://www.xbox-connection.com/hoste...s9/scooter.wmv

Thats one of my stupid videos, and for the gunshot, I originally was planning on doing it frame by frame in photoshop, but after hours of messing around with that, I gave up and decided to just load the image into Vegas on a new track and use the pan/crop tool to keyframe it, that only took about a total of 3 minutes to do, and it looks pretty fake, and it shows, but it worked I guess... Next time I'll do a REAL gunshot in front of a greenscreen and bam, there it is. :D Oh yeah, another trouble was with that video was that it was slow motion the whole way (33%) so if it wasn't slow mo, I could of made it look better and more real, because then it would of only had to of been like one frame.

80% of it is the sound, and the emotions of the character getting shot and probably dieing, instead of actually having a muzzle flash.

Good luck.

Brad Simmons · July 11th, 2003, 04:02 PM

thanks Alex. Yea I saw your movie before. It's funny.
I like the gunshot spark you have there but I think it seems a little too large. I guess mine won't be that hard because I'm only just going to have the blast for an instant and then I'll cut away.

So how do they do it in regular films? Are they firing blanks?

Keith Loh · July 11th, 2003, 04:32 PM

From that thread I sent you, Brad, I have a comment there where I theorize that in some instances the flashes ARE painted in or otherwise are post-FX. In used the example of frames from HEAT which I had outputted from a DVD where I looked and thought the flashes appeared fishy. No interactive lighting, not timed exactly right. This is not to say that the actors aren't firing blanks, but that the visual effect of a blank isn't the entire thing.

In TV and film you often see gunfire scenes taking place at night or indoors where the flashes are more dramatic. In HEAT, the gunbattle takes place in bright daylight. From what I observed, I felt that some of the gunfire was enhanced.

Audio FX for gunfire is almost always a combination of post and location recording. The conditions for location recording are often very poor.

John Locke · July 11th, 2003, 05:28 PM

Go check out Episode 05 at Lady X...then contact T.C. Lin and ask him how he did it (I think Dean Karalekas was in charge of the special effects--but using the "Feedback" form will get the message to them). Looks good...especially the machine gun.

Brad Simmons · July 11th, 2003, 07:04 PM

thanks guys. I'll email T.C. Lin and see what he has to say.

Brad Simmons · July 12th, 2003, 01:11 PM

I haven't emailed him yet, but from looking at the Lady X site and the post production software used, it appears he used a program called AlamDV2, which is actually pretty affordable and does the gun shot effects.

http://fxhome.com/alamdv2/

Matt Stahley · July 12th, 2003, 05:22 PM

Blanks will produce a muzzle flash as well.

John Heskett · July 12th, 2003, 10:20 PM

You need to have the right kind of blanks. Some blanks still send out pieces of stuff that can fly kind of far. Point is even with a blank never point the gun at someone. I'm planning on using blanks for muzzle flash, but then I reload my own ammo and have used blanks before.

John Locke · July 12th, 2003, 10:30 PM

John's right! Be careful about using blanks!

I have a brother-in-law who, to this day, has greenish black little specs all over his face from a "Wild West" type show back in the 70s. The idiot with the shotgun held it way too close and pointed it right at him rather than off to the side.

Keith Loh · July 13th, 2003, 01:42 AM

An actor named John Eric Hexum killed himself when he put a pistol loaded with a blank to his head and squeezed the trigger.

John Heskett · July 13th, 2003, 06:30 AM

Yes, it still expels hot gas and fragments. The western shows at one time used wax plugs in the cartridges. Sometimes the wax would stay together. It may not do damage like lead, but you sure would want to give a little wall to wall counseling to the guy who shot you.

As for shooting a short: Most of the time the person being shot at is not in the frame anyway. When they are it shouldn't be that big a deal to play with the camera angle and shoot the gun off to the side of the talent.

Michael Westphal · July 13th, 2003, 09:39 PM

AlamDV is the way to go. No need to use blanks and put anyone in jeopardy.

We used it for several effects in our last movie. The gunshot flashes are believable and very easy to place. We also used it for light sabers. Those are still tedious in AlamDV, but easier than any other inexpensive method.

http://www.killerrobots.com/hp/

(The trailer, not the teaser)

July 11th, 2003, 01:59 PM	#1
Brad Simmons Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Posts: 304	Gun shot effect Basic question... Anyone know the best way to create the spark in After Effects from a gun when it fires? Is there a plug-in that does this type of thing?

July 11th, 2003, 02:12 PM	#2
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	I hope someone answers that question because I spent a number of hours trying to animate gunflares using Photoshop and AfterEffects. I detailed what I did my Delphi forum in DVDA: http://forums.delphiforums.com/DVDA/messages?msg=384.15 <-- you can sign on as guest. The effect is serviceable and not the greatest as other people in the thread pointed out. Obviously, if there is a plugin out there then it would save us both more time in the future. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

July 11th, 2003, 04:32 PM	#6
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	From that thread I sent you, Brad, I have a comment there where I theorize that in some instances the flashes ARE painted in or otherwise are post-FX. In used the example of frames from HEAT which I had outputted from a DVD where I looked and thought the flashes appeared fishy. No interactive lighting, not timed exactly right. This is not to say that the actors aren't firing blanks, but that the visual effect of a blank isn't the entire thing. In TV and film you often see gunfire scenes taking place at night or indoors where the flashes are more dramatic. In HEAT, the gunbattle takes place in bright daylight. From what I observed, I felt that some of the gunfire was enhanced. Audio FX for gunfire is almost always a combination of post and location recording. The conditions for location recording are often very poor. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

July 11th, 2003, 05:28 PM	#7
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Go check out Episode 05 at Lady X...then contact T.C. Lin and ask him how he did it (I think Dean Karalekas was in charge of the special effects--but using the "Feedback" form will get the message to them). Looks good...especially the machine gun. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

July 12th, 2003, 10:20 PM	#11
John Heskett Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Terre Haute Indiana Posts: 181	You need to have the right kind of blanks. Some blanks still send out pieces of stuff that can fly kind of far. Point is even with a blank never point the gun at someone. I'm planning on using blanks for muzzle flash, but then I reload my own ammo and have used blanks before. __________________ Illuminate the Vision

July 11th, 2003, 02:42 PM	#3
Brad Simmons Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Posts: 304	thanks Keith, looks pretty good. I just realized that I posted this in the wrong forum. Can someone move it to the PC editing forum? Thanks.

July 11th, 2003, 03:31 PM	#4
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Well, from my experience, IT IS pretty hard to do it effectivly. http://www.xbox-connection.com/hoste...s9/scooter.wmv Thats one of my stupid videos, and for the gunshot, I originally was planning on doing it frame by frame in photoshop, but after hours of messing around with that, I gave up and decided to just load the image into Vegas on a new track and use the pan/crop tool to keyframe it, that only took about a total of 3 minutes to do, and it looks pretty fake, and it shows, but it worked I guess... Next time I'll do a REAL gunshot in front of a greenscreen and bam, there it is. :D Oh yeah, another trouble was with that video was that it was slow motion the whole way (33%) so if it wasn't slow mo, I could of made it look better and more real, because then it would of only had to of been like one frame. 80% of it is the sound, and the emotions of the character getting shot and probably dieing, instead of actually having a muzzle flash. Good luck.

July 11th, 2003, 04:02 PM	#5
Brad Simmons Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Posts: 304	thanks Alex. Yea I saw your movie before. It's funny. I like the gunshot spark you have there but I think it seems a little too large. I guess mine won't be that hard because I'm only just going to have the blast for an instant and then I'll cut away. So how do they do it in regular films? Are they firing blanks?

July 11th, 2003, 07:04 PM	#8
Brad Simmons Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Posts: 304	thanks guys. I'll email T.C. Lin and see what he has to say.

July 12th, 2003, 01:11 PM	#9
Brad Simmons Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Posts: 304	I haven't emailed him yet, but from looking at the Lady X site and the post production software used, it appears he used a program called AlamDV2, which is actually pretty affordable and does the gun shot effects. http://fxhome.com/alamdv2/

July 12th, 2003, 05:22 PM	#10
Matt Stahley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Waynesboro, PA Posts: 648	Blanks will produce a muzzle flash as well.

July 12th, 2003, 10:30 PM	#12
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	John's right! Be careful about using blanks! I have a brother-in-law who, to this day, has greenish black little specs all over his face from a "Wild West" type show back in the 70s. The idiot with the shotgun held it way too close and pointed it right at him rather than off to the side. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

July 13th, 2003, 01:42 AM	#13
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	An actor named John Eric Hexum killed himself when he put a pistol loaded with a blank to his head and squeezed the trigger. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

July 13th, 2003, 06:30 AM	#14
John Heskett Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Terre Haute Indiana Posts: 181	Yes, it still expels hot gas and fragments. The western shows at one time used wax plugs in the cartridges. Sometimes the wax would stay together. It may not do damage like lead, but you sure would want to give a little wall to wall counseling to the guy who shot you. As for shooting a short: Most of the time the person being shot at is not in the frame anyway. When they are it shouldn't be that big a deal to play with the camera angle and shoot the gun off to the side of the talent. __________________ Illuminate the Vision

July 13th, 2003, 09:39 PM	#15
Michael Westphal Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 166	AlamDV 2 AlamDV is the way to go. No need to use blanks and put anyone in jeopardy. We used it for several effects in our last movie. The gunshot flashes are believable and very easy to place. We also used it for light sabers. Those are still tedious in AlamDV, but easier than any other inexpensive method. http://www.killerrobots.com/hp/ (The trailer, not the teaser) __________________ Michael A Westphal